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Thread: Modern Horizons Spoilers

  1. #161

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    If what you are saying comes to pass that would be a great thing.

    Just about all of our legacy decks would be playable in the format you are describing. Basically, the ban list in this new format would be reserved list, and everything else would be unbanned.

    I would gladly give up LED, City of Traitors, Cradle, Metalworker for a 10x fold increase in legacy’s playerbase. Those handful of cards could be relegated to Vintage and commander. Losing them would barely effect many legacy decks. And being reserved list cards, they will always maintain value. Reserve list cards is why Legacy is destined to suffer the same fate as vintage. Its a format without a long term future.

    What you are describing is actually the one true way to save legacy. It would be a modern format that would have almost all of our pet legacy decks as viable options with a few minor changes (shocklands instead of duals).

    All the decks we know and love would in fact become modern legal. Its a pain having to maintain a bunch of legacy decks that not that many people locally play and modern decks that are not as fun but needed since thats what almost everyone plays these days.
    Although I agree with you, I am also a little bit biased since I'm a dedicated player to artifact and ancient tomb/city of traitor type decks. Metalworker, Grim Monolith, Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors are dear to me because I come from vintage where I used to be a workshop and dredge player. The reason I started playing legacy was because there were no more vintage tournaments.. On the whole, the aforementioned scenario would probably be for the greater good, but it will be people like me that will get caught by collateral damage.

  2. #162
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    They should just introduce another format and not deprecate legacy. People would still play it locally especially if it were more of a proxy supported format.
    -rob

  3. #163

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Astral Drift... OMG!!!!

    That is the single best thing they could have done for Slide (Drift now I guess) other than reverting the M10 rules and re-instating damage on the stack.

    Like, that is insane.

    Just to explain WHY that's such an amazingly good card, Astral Slide was weirdly kind of both the best and worst card in the deck. It didn't cycle, it generally took at least 4 mana to do anything, and it was usually bad in multiples. This does SO. MUCH. WORK.

    First of all, you can happily run 4 of these, which is huge, because running 4x Slide was always kind of a downer, so you'd run 3, but then sometimes it wouldn't show up.
    Second, the effect is built into the cycle, so you can use it before you hit 4+ mana, and it's a double drift if you cycle this with one in play already.
    Third, this means you can burn these early to fog attacks, then cast them from your 'yard with Abandoned Sarcophagus

    Honestly, the interactions this sets up with Sarcophagus might be the best part of this card. Just really phenomenal all around. Super Duper excited to see if they update Rift as well.

    In Legacy, this really lowers the threshold for number of cycling slots required. Could easily push the deck from Tier 3 to Tier 2. (the main issue being, of course, that you still just aren't doing anything nearly as broken as the rest of the format and you're using the loam draw engine, which, sadly, is just inferior AND hit by all kinds of splash damage at this point. I.E., you're trying to play a fair deck in an unfair format)

  4. #164

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    1. Ban all cards from the Reserved List
    2. Print near functional equivalents for every single card from the list that sees competitive play. Like, the same exact text, but with nonsense attached such as "{T}: Roll the planar die." or "You may cast this spell without paying its mana cost if you're the Archenemy."
    3. Overprint these cards to death and include them in non-booster supplemental products
    3. Give speculators and hoarders the middle finger

  5. #165

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    1. Ban all cards from the Reserved List
    2. Print near functional equivalents for every single card from the list that sees competitive play. Like, the same exact text, but with nonsense attached such as "{T}: Roll the planar die." or "You may cast this spell without paying its mana cost if you're the Archenemy."
    3. Overprint these cards to death and include them in non-booster supplemental products
    3. Give speculators and hoarders the middle finger
    That would be an uncharacteristically aggressive move for a toy company I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  6. #166
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    1. Ban all cards from the Reserved List
    2. Print near functional equivalents for every single card from the list that sees competitive play. Like, the same exact text, but with nonsense attached such as "{T}: Roll the planar die." or "You may cast this spell without paying its mana cost if you're the Archenemy."
    3. Overprint these cards to death and include them in non-booster supplemental products
    3. Give speculators and hoarders the middle finger
    There legal ramifications to fucking with the reserve list. They wont do it unless the $ the cost of legal fees and penalties is less than projected future income from a world without reserve list / fucked with reserved list.
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  7. #167

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    If what you are saying comes to pass that would be a great thing.

    Just about all of our legacy decks would be playable in the format you are describing. Basically, the ban list in this new format would be reserved list, and everything else would be unbanned.

    I would gladly give up LED, City of Traitors, Cradle, Metalworker for a 10x fold increase in legacy’s playerbase. Those handful of cards could be relegated to Vintage and commander. Losing them would barely effect many legacy decks. Many MUD lists are cutting Metalworker already. Many ramp decks are cutting City of Traitors and a card like Sandstone Needle or Crystal Vein could take its place. Elves could survive the loss of Cradle and Legacy would probably be better off without LED. As long as they bring every popular nonreserve list card like Dark Ritual and Hymn/Sinkhole/Pox over to Modern, I would happily make the swap.

    And being reserved list cards, the cards not brought into modern will still maintain value. Reserve list cards is why Legacy is destined to suffer the same fate as vintage. Its a format without a long term future.

    What you are describing is actually the one true way to save legacy. It would be a modern format that would have almost all of our pet legacy decks as viable options with a few minor changes (shocklands instead of duals).

    All the decks we know and love would in fact become modern legal. Its a pain having to maintain a bunch of legacy decks that not that many people locally play and modern decks that are not as fun but needed since thats what almost everyone plays these days.
    Why would they unban everything? Wouldnt they probably keep it closer to moderns ban list, since its the format they like?

  8. #168

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    MH will make modern more like poor man’s legacy. I expect a bunch of format policing answers that are too strong for standard. The threats and synergies in modern are already on this level.

    Legacy will be the place to play RL cards and that is unlikely to change. It’s a great, but hard to access format. The prestige aspect is a feature to wizards.

    Meanwhile arena modern will be a reset of modern, making it more of what wizards wants going forward. The power level of current standard is high, but still allows for plenty of archetypes. The balance between threats and answers is good.

    This will also clear the way to making all MCs, and other high vis tournaments, played and streamed on arena. The spectator experience will be way better. The chess clock was just implemented and cheating will be impossible. My prediction, the fall MC will be half standard, half arena modern and will be played totally on arena.

  9. #169
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    It costs an inordinate amount of money to pay lawyers to write stuff to present to a judge on the off chance the judge doesn't chuck any number of fuck-stupid lawsuits out of court on sight for being—well. . .

    That's why the Reserved List still exists.
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    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
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    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  10. #170

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    It costs an inordinate amount of money to pay lawyers to write stuff to present to a judge on the off chance the judge doesn't chuck any number of fuck-stupid lawsuits out of court on sight for being—well. . .

    That's why the Reserved List still exists.
    I would go as far to say that wizards sees prohibitively expensive cards as a feature. It adds a layer of intrigue to the game it would not have if everything was affordable. These cards don’t really interfere with how the game is run. In fact, most would not come close to being acceptable by current design standards. They don’t even reprint non RL cards into oblivion. That should tell you quite a bit about their stance.

  11. #171
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    So many of those anti-RL comments are emotionally motivated. "I cannot afford duals > let's ban them so I don't have to worry." I can understand peoples' frustration to some point but it mustn't lead to egocentric and radical conclusions.
    Obviously, WotC pushes Modern to cement itself as the default (and to some extent one and only) eternal format, which it has been for a number of years now. Honestly, Legacy is not going anywhere, even if they make Modern a "Legacy light" format.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
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  12. #172

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Dude I don't have any problems playing Legacy myself, I think your argument would be way more credible if it didn't give off a weird vibe about how you don't like poor people.

    As for the legal ramifications, the speculators did whine a lot when Reverberate was printed but it turned out alright in the end. But sure, let's add a prior clause:

    0. Sell WotC to a Chinese company that doesn't care about the stupid US "intellectual property" system

  13. #173
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/ spoilers starting

    nothing great, but happy to see changelings back. maybe hope for rebels!
    -rob

  14. #174

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/ spoilers starting

    nothing great, but happy to see changelings back. maybe hope for rebels!
    buy your didgeridoos now!
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  15. #175
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers



    Seems mildly interesting with Aether Vial and Preeminent Captain in Soldier Stompy.
    Currently working on: Infinity Stompy

  16. #176
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Looks like more expensive, conditional Goyf.

  17. #177

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    A mostly worse Fow was just spoiled on stream :

    Force of Negation 1UU
    Instant
    If it's not your turn, you may exile a blue card from your hand instead of paying this spell's mana cost.
    Counter target non-creature spell. If that spell is countered that way, exile it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard.

  18. #178
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Is the exile clause ever relevant in legacy? Turns off looting from dredge I guess
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  19. #179

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingKitchen View Post
    A mostly worse Fow was just spoiled on stream :

    Force of Negation 1UU
    Instant
    If it's not your turn, you may exile a blue card from your hand instead of paying this spell's mana cost.
    Counter target non-creature spell. If that spell is countered that way, exile it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard.
    It can stop fast combo, but can't be used to protect fast combo. I like it. Reasonable hard cast cost, no life payment, exile the spell.

    Lotta good stuff there. I like it.

    And they are DEFINITELY setting up Modern as "Fixed Legacy where we don't have to deal with the Reserved List or our most recent Legacy-only mistakes like Leovold and TNN".

    EDIT: @Megadeus - I think it's aimed mostly at Turn 3 Tron nonsense and Faithless Looting T1.

    EDIT2: Full art Snow Lands in the set. Grab your Scrying Sheets now before they're gone.

  20. #180
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    FoW-knockoff decent enough vs P-Fire and Loam. Not really playable in a format with TNN though.

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