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Thread: Modern Horizons Spoilers

  1. #81

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    You realize that Mirrodin besieged is like.. 8 years old right? If you're talking about "new design" and it was done in the first printing of planeswalkers then it's just an incorrect assertion. To show it wasn't a 1-off, I showed that they continued using that design (eight years ago) on several other walkers; of which I don't think I supplied an exhaustive list.
    Good thing my assertion wasn't "new design" or this might have been relevant. If you're reaching back eight years (and misrepresenting when they were printed, ie NOT when Planeswalker first came out) to find a relevant example maybe you should think why they haven't been so common in recent history? Could it be that that figured out that this was a bad idea and moved away from it?
    Your point was that this new-fangled design is ruining the game or some such; my point is that that premise is fundamentally proven wrong by simply showing you that that design has existed for the entirety of planeswalker's existence as a card type.
    My point was that I didn't like the card. You drew a whole bunch of conclusions on your own using factually inaccurate information. Rtfp and don't project next time.

  2. #82

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Here is my wishlist...

    Step 1. Use future MH sets to reprint every single legacy legal card thats not on the reserved list


    Step 2. Wait for this new format to completely displace legacy, looks mostly like legacy does today but free of the reserve list, and also introduce this format to Arena


    Step 3. Merge vintage and legacy into one large defunct older format that no one plays. This defunct format would share its banned/restricted list with EDH for simplicity’s sake, because the only people still playing reserve list cards at that point are EDH players

  3. #83

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Here is my wishlist...

    Step 1. Use future MH sets to reprint every single legacy legal card thats not on the reserved list


    Step 2. Wait for this new format to completely displace legacy, looks mostly like legacy does today but free of the reserve list, and also introduce this format to Arena


    Step 3. Merge vintage and legacy into one large defunct older format that no one plays. This defunct format would share its banned/restricted list with EDH for simplicity’s sake, because the only people still playing reserve list cards at that point are EDH players
    There is so many problems with this that it's not even funny. First of all if they did that, most all the cards that make legacy, legacy, would immediately be insta banned. Tendrils of Agony, Brainstorm, Hymn to Tourach, Wasteland, Entomb, Natural Order, Dark Ritual, Ancient Tomb, etc. What would be the point of trying to make modern " legacy lite " ? And for us hard core legacy players, we don't want to play Vintage, price being the number one concern. But also Vintage is horrible for deck building. You have
    like 5 or 6 cards that have to be in every deck to be competitive. Legacy to me is the perfect format, you get the entire history of MTG cards, you get all the deck types represented in non watered down ways, combo, prison, control, etc. I see a lot of comments being made about people welcoming a death to legacy. I'm glad people like modern. Why kill another format because you don't like legacy and prefer modern? Modern to me seems like standard but with more cards. It's a creature combat centered format that has some janky not good combo decks, no real control decks, zero prison decks, and lots and lots of tempo, aggro, and mid-range decks. That is not a format that is fun to me. As a player who prefers control/prison/resource denial style decks, I don't want to play a format where counter spells are three mana and land destruction is seen as not viable for the format. Leave legacy be. Enjoy modern. I don't want to play modern. It's a good thing to have multiple playable formats for different people.

  4. #84
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    There is a more fundamental issue with the idea that Wizards "replaces" Legacy with Modern. It's the fact that it already happened, years and years ago.

    Maybe Wizards drops the tiny, tiny amount of support they have for Legacy, by way of their sanctioned events. So what? The format has been and will still be in the hands of the players. SCG is unlikely to completely discontinue events as long as people still show up. Not to mention, these Team Trio events are reasonably popular right now, what's the three formats of the future for Paper? Standard, "Paper" Modern, and Arena Modern? Pauper? Not in the likely future in my estimation.

    As long as there are cards people want to play in each format, people will still be playing those formats. Arena is the "future" of the game, but we have always been function of the past. In fact, that's the whole point. In the far, far future (whatever that means) Legacy and Vintage will be the Old School of tomorrow, where EC or someone else runs the format as they see fit.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  5. #85

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    There is a more fundamental issue with the idea that Wizards "replaces" Legacy with Modern. It's the fact that it already happened, years and years ago.

    Maybe Wizards drops the tiny, tiny amount of support they have for Legacy, by way of their sanctioned events. So what? The format has been and will still be in the hands of the players. SCG is unlikely to completely discontinue events as long as people still show up. Not to mention, these Team Trio events are reasonably popular right now, what's the three formats of the future for Paper? Standard, "Paper" Modern, and Arena Modern? Pauper? Not in the likely future in my estimation.

    As long as there are cards people want to play in each format, people will still be playing those formats. Arena is the "future" of the game, but we have always been function of the past. In fact, that's the whole point. In the far, far future (whatever that means) Legacy and Vintage will be the Old School of tomorrow, where EC or someone else runs the format as they see fit.
    I mostly play online. And finding online players for dead formats is not fun.

  6. #86
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    I mostly play online. And finding online players for dead formats is not fun.
    I'm not sure your point here, you think that the, what, 3 Legacy GPs, worldwide, per year, is keeping Legacy from whatever you call "death?"

    Or is your point that MTGO is?
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  7. #87

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I'm not sure your point here, you think that the, what, 3 Legacy GPs, worldwide, per year, is keeping Legacy from whatever you call "death?"

    Or is your point that MTGO is?
    People post games, and look for games in real formats. If Legacy stopped being a supported and actual format and became a " kitchen table " format, it would severely decrease the number of players who post games and look for games of legacy. Not sure what you are not getting here.

  8. #88
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    People post games, and look for games in real formats. If Legacy stopped being a supported and actual format and became a " kitchen table " format, it would severely decrease the number of players who post games and look for games of legacy. Not sure what you are not getting here.
    What defines it as a "real" format? I really doubt they will unilaterally end the very concept of what Legacy is, regardless of what they do with Modern.

    MTGO on the other hand, will die eventually, I doubt there is any way around that.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  9. #89
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Good thing my assertion wasn't "new design" or this might have been relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Guess I'm just old now but I think these new cards are *snip* templated to be even stronger based on realitively new rule changes Why does Serra only need one tic?
    ______________
    If you're reaching back eight years (and misrepresenting when they were printed, ie NOT when Planeswalker first came out)
    You mean Lorwyn? You know.. when
    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    came out? Which of course the reason I "reached back" to when they were first printed was, again, because of this claim:
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Guess I'm just old now but I think these new cards are *snip* templated to be even stronger based on realitively new rule changes Why does Serra only need one tic?
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    to find a relevant example maybe you should think why they haven't been so common in recent history? Could it be that that figured out that this was a bad idea and moved away from it?
    Lol. I showed you one from the first set they printed with 'Walkers because it proved your point wrong. I then showed you some from a few sets later to show it wasn't a one-off or even that rare. Because you insist on moving the goalposts, here is yet another 1-tic ultimate from a couple years back in Nissa, Vital Force

    This doesn't even count the whole smattering of cards like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Kaya-Ghost, Gideon-Trials, Chandra Flamecaller, et all; who can "ult" the turn they come down. It's not new. It wasn't abandoned. We've seen plenty of examples recently and since their inception. You're just wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Step 1. Use future MH sets to reprint every single legacy legal card thats not on the reserved list
    Isn't there already a "No Reseved List Legacy"? Just play that and make it popular!
    No need to destroy the Modern identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Step 2. Wait for this new format to completely displace legacy, looks mostly like legacy does today but free of the reserve list, and also introduce this format to Arena
    I guess everything will come to Arena eventually, but it will take several years.
    Also, Arena is not perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Step 3. Merge vintage and legacy into one large defunct older format that no one plays. This defunct format would share its banned/restricted list with EDH for simplicity’s sake, because the only people still playing reserve list cards at that point are EDH players
    It makes no sense to throw things together.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    MTGO on the other hand, will die eventually, I doubt there is any way around that.
    I assume that's true. But I sincerely hope WotC waits before they shut it down until Arena can support all formats and then at least migrate peoples' collections from MTGO to Arena.

  11. #91

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    ______________

    You mean Lorwyn? You know.. when

    came out? Which of course the reason I "reached back" to when they were first printed was, again, because of this claim:
    Lol. I showed you one from the first set they printed with 'Walkers because it proved your point wrong. I then showed you some from a few sets later to show it wasn't a one-off or even that rare. Because you insist on moving the goalposts, here is yet another 1-tic ultimate from a couple years back in Nissa, Vital Force

    This doesn't even count the whole smattering of cards like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Kaya-Ghost, Gideon-Trials, Chandra Flamecaller, et all; who can "ult" the turn they come down. It's not new. It wasn't abandoned. We've seen plenty of examples recently and since their inception. You're just wrong.
    Oh I see, we're just going to drink our dumb juice.

  12. #92
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by joven View Post
    I assume that's true. But I sincerely hope WotC waits before they shut it down until Arena can support all formats and then at least migrate peoples' collections from MTGO to Arena.
    I think that Wizards is actually not sure, at this moment, just what to do with the question of MTGO. On the one hand, they know how difficult it would be to bring every card over to Arena. On the other, they know how bad, even from just a PR standpoint, it would be to just flat out kill MTGO. Add to this the further "complicated" issue of what to do with people's collections. No doubt Hasbro's mouth waters at the prospect of selling people the same database rows again, but even they have the slightest scruples to realize how bad those optics would be if there were just a flat wipe of collections. In the end, they are going to try to take some kind of "middle road," once they "figure" just how much they think they can feasibly milk out of players while fostering minimal outrage. At least, likely so for Modern, when it comes.

    The one thing they certainly cannot do, until everything is already in motion, is make any sort of definitive statement about the future of Eternal on either platform.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  13. #93

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Wizards had a big problem with Vintage that Legacy solved: the ability to ban things.

    Wizards has a big problem with Legacy that new Modern will solve: the ability to reprint things.

    Legacy won't "die" but it will be relegated to Vintage/ '94 status.

  14. #94
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    I imagine cycles like Words of X (bears etc.), Anger/Wonder/etc, Wishes are reasonably likely to be fine in modern. Mercadian free spells should be okay...but Misd is a good deal more destructive to a format when it's 4x playable (since you can't play FoW) - the card just trashes fair decks who love putting redirection targets on board for their own interactive spells (not a bad thing, but that's subjective).

    Sets like this would also be a good excuse to print good art (expedition Misty, Teferi with tree/Amonkhet promo arts etc) with real borders and not foil. It would also be a fine place to print hot garbage like Atraxa/Silas Renn/Kess/etc in a not-foil.

  15. #95

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    I think Vindicate being able to hit lands is actually a point in its favor right now. They have a HUGE problem with Tron in Modern, because it's just fundamentally a Turn Three deck in a Turn Four format, and they clearly don't want to ban Tron, so having more answers to it is probably a good thing in their books.
    A huge problem with Tron? You mean the deck that didn't get a single Top 8 in the last four Grand Prix? Seriously, I feel like Tron could be less than 1% of the metagame and people would still whine about how it's a problem.

    If there's any "problem" in Modern right now, it's Arclight Phoenix.

  16. #96
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    A huge problem with Tron? You mean the deck that didn't get a single Top 8 in the last four Grand Prix? Seriously, I feel like Tron could be less than 1% of the metagame and people would still whine about how it's a problem.

    If there's any "problem" in Modern right now, it's Arclight Phoenix.
    Or faithless looting?
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    A huge problem with Tron? You mean the deck that didn't get a single Top 8 in the last four Grand Prix? Seriously, I feel like Tron could be less than 1% of the metagame and people would still whine about how it's a problem.

    If there's any "problem" in Modern right now, it's Arclight Phoenix.
    Dredge is also huge. Tylert ist correct that Faithless Looting is the "problem" if you want to see it as one.

    Modern already has access to the most efficient GY hate and I doubt they could print anything new that would change everything. Leyline of the Void + London mulligan would probably have a bigger effect on crippling both decks if it came into effect.

    As for (re)prints, I wonder how much jank the set is going to contain for Limited purposes.
    Currently working on: Infinity Stompy

  18. #98

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Containment Priest getting printed in Horizons - which is likely - pretty much beats the ever living heck out of Dredge and Phoenix. Tron is always a problem just waiting on the wrong colorless card to get printed. It's possible to print stuff that hates on all the big decks in the same set.

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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Containment Priest getting printed in Horizons - which is likely - pretty much beats the ever living heck out of Dredge and Phoenix. Tron is always a problem just waiting on the wrong colorless card to get printed. It's possible to print stuff that hates on all the big decks in the same set.
    Damping Sphere already happened, as did Alpine Moon. Giving UW access to CP seems like it's probably a bad idea in modern since it hoses every Vial deck and most any strategy trying to use the yard. That's a pretty massive virtual boost to SB space for one deck, in a format that is defined by slamming "my SB card says you lose" as the central strategy (as opposed to being interactive).

  20. #100

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Damping Sphere already happened, as did Alpine Moon. Giving UW access to CP seems like it's probably a bad idea in modern since it hoses every Vial deck and most any strategy trying to use the yard. That's a pretty massive virtual boost to SB space for one deck, in a format that is defined by slamming "my SB card says you lose" as the central strategy (as opposed to being interactive).
    Wizards will not rest until all decks are human hatebears.

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