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Thread: Ice-BURG Phoenix

  1. #1
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    Ice-BURG Phoenix

    4 Arclight Phoenix
    2 Bloodghast
    3 Thing in the Ice
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Entomb
    3 Force of Will
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Thought Scour
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Careful Study
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Land Grant
    4 Ponder
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 Bayou
    1 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Swamp
    2 Tropical Island
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    Sideboard
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    2 Ancient Grudge
    1 Assassin's Trophy
    1 Memory's Journey
    1 Sentinel Tower
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Thoughtseize

    Primer continuing to be updated.

    Ice-BURG Phoenix Primer

    Card Choices

    Brainstorm – Best to use in conjunction with thoughtscour to get phoenix in the yard. Also interacts well with land grant to shuffle away extra lands without playing land drops.

    Ponder – Most of the time preboard, you are looking for cards that help you get phoenix in the yard and reanimated.

    Careful Study – Discard the phoenix and bloodghasts that accumulate in your hand.

    Thoughtscour – used in conjunction with brainstorm and ponder to find a phoenix and put it in the yard.

    Manamorphose – Free spell that also fixes your not so great manabase

    Inquisition of Kozilek – Cabal Therapy makes the later drops not as important to hit so you can afford to play a couple of these.

    Thoughtseize – Knowing your opponents hand helps with Cabal Therapy hits. Cheap, proactive disruption that can be used to flip Phoenix.

    Cabal Therapy – Paired with Bloodghast and Phoenix to flashback. Helps with spell density to flashback phoenix while providing disruption. Remember you can discard your own phoenix in a pinch with the card. Also, flipping Thing in the Ice can allow you to name the creature you just bounced effectively destroying it. Certain matchups you should blind name cards, predominantly chalice of the void and Thalia. Most other matchups it is more effective to hold until you can use it as a follow up to Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek.

    Force of Will – Cheap free disruption is great especially game 1’s. There are fewer cards you care about game 1 and Force of Will is usually enough to counteract the amount of hate cards most decks have. You do not really want to cast 2 of these in one game because you run out of cards in hand too quickly for that, so 3 feels like the right number.

    Thing in the Ice – It is your removal spell of choice. Less dead than the majority of other removal spells. Easily flipped the turn after it comes into play. Remember the synergy with Cabal therapy on what you bounce of theirs and careful study with your own Phoenix and Bloodghasts in play.

    Entomb – Phoenix 5-8. You need more ways to find virtual copies of Phoenix for consistency reasons. This card is nice and cheap and also allows you get Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy , and ancient grudge when the situation calls for it.

    Arclight Phoenix – getting a few of these out consistently creates a turn 4 kill.

    Bloodghast – Primarily included to flashback cabal therapies to help flip Thing in the Ice and reanimate Arclight Phoenix. Can also be used in the face of surgical to be entomb for so you an clear out surgical extraction with cabal therapy.

    Land Grant – Free spell to more consistently bring back phoenix on turn 2.

    Misty Rainforest – You need some amount of fetches to have enough sources of each color and allows you to find Volcanic Island, Island and Forest more regularly.

    Underground Sea – Had 3 Underground Sea and 1 Swamp and realized Swamp is bad versus wasteland and makes you mulligan one land hands if it is your only land. I think the only place I want a Swamp is versus Back to Basics and that’s why I put a Forest in the board. You can still cast Decay/Trophy off of Forest and you can also activate bearscape off of Island Forest under Back to Basics.

    Tropical Island – I like the 2 Tropical Island, 1 Bayou split for the number of forests needed for Land Grant.

    Bayou – needed for Land Grant

    Volcanic Island – lets you hardcast Arclight Phoenix. Get with a fetchland over a green source so you can cast both manamorphose and your phoenix.

    Basic Island – Allows for unwasteable turn 1 cantrip.

    Sideboard

    What is probably needed in your sideboard:
    About 2-3 slots for alternate wincons in the face of Surgical Extraction.
    About 2-3 slots to generate card advantage in grindier matchups.
    About 6-7 slots to answer hate permanents
    About 3-4 Graveyard hate cards

    Current Board

    Surgical Extraction – the best card vs combo decks that rely on the graveyard or in conjunction with discard.

    Forest – Bring in versus land disruption and in conjunction with bearscape.

    Abrupt Decay – Superior to Trophy versus Delver and counterspells. Does not hit lands, Leyline of the Void, Jace, The Mind Sculptor, or Gurmag Angler. Used mostly versus things that prevent your from playing your game.

    Assassin’s Trophy – Unconditional, but giving lands can be relevant in some matchups, and can be countered. Gets the nod over 3rd Abrupt Decay for the Leyline of the Void and Dark Depths matchups.

    Ancient Grudge – Tutorable with entomb. Great vs artifact hate.

    Bearscape – Looks bad, but the best win condition I have found that doesn’t die to creature removal. Pros are that it leaves bears behind if they do not destroy it right away. It can also block very well and pressure walkers. Cons are that it is graveyard dependent and it takes a few turns to get online.

    Sylvan Library – Best thing I can find to generate card advantage against the decks that grind and do not pressure your life total.

    Other things tried:

    Alternate win conditions:

    Criteria: hard to answer win conditions against the control decks that can drag on the game and surgical extract your phoenix.
    Examples: Miracles, Grixis Control.

    Sentinel Tower
    In conjunction with draw 2s in the board can threaten lethal the turn after its played. Upside is that its not hit with swords/terminus/celestial purge
    Downside is that it is hit by Kolaghan’s Command and costs 4 mana. Also is not good if you have no cards in hand.

    Pyromancer’s Ascension/Noxious Revival
    Can loop noxious revival with manamorphose to make infinite mana and then loop noxious revival with thoughtscour to mill your opponent out. Pros are that pyromancer’s ascension acts as card advantage engine prior to winning and noxious revival protects phoenix from surgical extraction. Cons are that Pyromancer’s Ascension is not reliably cast in deck, noxious revival is a below par card, and it takes up a lot of sideboard spaces.

    Liliana of the Last Hope
    Can ultimate to win and can neutralize cards like thief of sanity, baleful strix and snapcaster mage before that. Pros are that it is easier to cast than other options, does not rely on the graveyard or having cards in hand. Cons are that it gets hit with celestial purge, can be attacked, and does not gain much card parity if destroyed before it ultimates.


    Card Advantage:

    Accumulated Knowledge/Take Inventory
    It is awesome verse card like Hymn of Tourach. Not so great versus graveyard removal like Rest in piece and Nihil Spellbomb.
    Search from Azcanta
    Slow, although it does mana ramp and first side is good to get phoenix in yard. Also isn’t great verse Blood Moon/Back to Basics.

    Counterbalance
    Unreliable. They can play a 3cc or 4cc card and it doesn’t help you answer it. It is helpful in quite a few matchups as another form of disruption though. Useful versus storm, delver decks and elves.

    Hate Permanent Answers:

    I see Assassin’s Trophy and Abrupt Decay as a lot better than the rest.

    Reverent Silence is narrow but it does have some game versus Death’s Shadow and can answer multiple pieces.

    Naturalize/Nature’s Claim can be good if you want more game versus Blood Moon decks.

    Pernicious Deed is good vs prison decks although slow.

    Graveyard Hate:

    Memory’s Journey – Tutorable with Entomb but too slow

    Tormod’s Crypt – Too slow sometimes.

    Noxious Revival – a consideration if you make Pyromancer’s Ascension work.

    Coffin Purge – Narrow and minor effect but could be good enough in certain situations.


    Let me know what you want me to add, if people are interested I can add more info.
    Last edited by Guy I Don't Know; 04-26-2019 at 10:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    UnOrthodox Bird's Avatar
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    Re: Ice-BURG Phoenix

    Love the thread name.

    Currently playing this deck and loving it. I was on the Grixis Buried Alive list for a bit, but quickly shifted to also playing a U/B focused list to more "slowball" the Phoenixes, leveraging Entomb to get a threat or two into play and Cabal Therapy plus the "slower" nature of the deck to consistently have some hand control. (slowball not being my term, but something I picked up when reading the discussion of the deck in the Grixis Phoenix thread)

    I have been enjoying this list immensely. While I enjoy the way Grixis Buried Alive plays, I feel this fairer version provides a lot of upside, namely a list with the same number of hand disruption as Buried Alive, while also being able to run some copies of FoW and dropping Lotus Petal. Plus, I think the threat package with TitI is just a lot cooler than the Grixis version Dark Confidant/Young Pyromancer/Mentor (although, if I could somehow get access to Mentor, I might consider it. Sadly, the mana just doesn't work out).

    As for changes I have/am trying, it is mostly sideboard related:
    1) The one mainboard change I have is instead of 2 IoK/1 Thoughtseize, I am on 2 Collective Brutality/1 Thoughtseize. I am not sure if the card is worth it, as the extra cmc makes it harder to get Phoenixes, but I enjoy the mainboard "removal" option and ability to discard.
    2) For the sideboard, I have had some issue with AK, as I feel the need to cast them before Miracles does in grindy matchups, providing them more value. I am currently switching between Painful Truths or Take Inventory.

    For some things to "think" on:
    1) Someone on reddit mentioned a possibility of using Intuition as a variable tutor. I think it works better in Grixis and has more drawbacks (high cmc, often can't get Phoenixes into play after, leaves a Phoenix in hand if you go for 3) than it has upsides (2x Cabal Therapy + Bloodghast is a cool pick). But might be something fun to think of.
    2) Sentinel Tower is dope, but I was wondering what we might want to consider as other alternative cards to bring in to bolster games when the Graveyard isn't reliable or Bridge heavy matchups.
    3) U/W with huge numbers of basics is increasing in numbers. Being proactive will be key, so it'll be interesting to think of what might be shuffled to the MB or changed in the SB. Mostly worried about Back to Basics in games 2 and on (or game 1 vs Miracles). But, I think TitI provides a great threat that can handle what these decks usually put out, so we have that going for us. And out current SB removal options are solid.
    Belcher Aficionado. Lover of Burning Wish.
    Decks I Play/Pimped:
    Experimental Doomsday
    Bizarro Stormy
    TES
    ScapeWish
    UBr Tezzerator/Painter brews

  3. #3
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    Re: Ice-BURG Phoenix

    Some more thoughts after discussing with some people I know.

    1) I am currently planning to shift the number of TitI to 2 and remove the Bloodghasts for 3x Young Pyromancers. This is also prompting me to ditch 1 Tropical for 1 Taiga. I think this could end up being a mistake, but I just can't ignore the synergy of Young Pyromancer and Cabal Therapy, and I think with how good a threat it is, it might beat the upside of Entomb getting you a Bloodghast. Probably wrong to do so, but we shall see.

    2) The larger idea that the Young Pyromancer came from is my friend wanted to remove TitI and Bloodghast all together. While I am not on board with it, he suggested Young Pyromancer as a better threat with Cabal Therapy and, to keep the blue count high while also adding in a card that "uses" the graveyard since we have Careful Study and Thought Scour, Pteramander as threats. Thoughts?

    Also, the Legacy Phoenix discord is up and running for a while now, and I asked WhiteFaces to add a set of channels for Ice-BURG, so come join us for discussion here: https://discord.gg/gpQ7GQ
    Last edited by UnOrthodox Bird; 03-17-2019 at 12:41 AM.
    Belcher Aficionado. Lover of Burning Wish.
    Decks I Play/Pimped:
    Experimental Doomsday
    Bizarro Stormy
    TES
    ScapeWish
    UBr Tezzerator/Painter brews

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