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Thread: [deck] Suicide Red

  1. #1
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    [deck] Suicide Red

    I have never played Vintage, but I decided to build a deck, just in case I would get an opportunity.

    Idea: Temur Battle Rage and Immolating Souleater are cheap commons, but with Vintage potential: the first is red Berserk and the second is artifact creature with built-in Hatred. With Simian Spirit Guide they create 2nd turn kill.

    20 Mountain
    1 Ghitu Encampment
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Inner-Flame Acolyte
    4 Immolating Souleater
    4 Temur Battle Rage
    2 Assault Strobe

    4 Bloodfire Dwarf
    3 Dwarven Berserker
    1 Dwarven Warriors
    4 Dwarven Bloodboiler

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Crackling Club
    2 Skullclamp
    1 Shivan Harvest

    SB:
    1 Gorilla Shaman
    3 Duergar Hedge-Mage
    3 Thran Foundry
    1 Onslaught
    1 Spawning Pit
    4 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Flaring Pain

    This deck can (on paper) kill T1 (land, exile 3 SSG, Souleater, evoke IFA, Assault Strobe, attack, pay 14 life, win) and although it in reality never happens, T2-T3 kills are quite common. For mid-game there is dwarven shell with Bloodboilers to kill without Souleater.

    I tested it in Forge vs AI playing preconstructed Vintage archetypes. Well, I must say, it is different experience than Legacy or Modern: kill ASAP or die. Ridiculous things happen quickly: Oath, SnT, NO, Craterhoof, Progenitus, Griselbrand, Belcher, Emrakul, and although (at least against AI) I win more, games are mostly uninteractive. Nevertheless, Vintage has a thrill.

    Edit:
    -4 Spark Mage, +4 Bloodfire Dwarf, -1 Fling, +1 Goblin Bombardment

    Edit 2:
    -4 Dwarven Blastminer, +4 Dwarven Berserker, -1 Goblin Bombardment, +1 Shivan Harvest
    Still messing around and trying. Blastminers - nice ability, but slow and useless in combat. Berserkers can attack in more situations.

    Edit 3:
    Created provisional SB. Still considering playing without SB, sideboarding dilutes own strategy.

    Edit 4: -1 Dwarven Berserker, +1 IFA, changes in SB (Revokers aren't available for this deck at the moment). DB alone does next to nothing, 12 dwarves may be enough.

    Edit 5: -2 Fling, +2 Crackling Club. Flings were too risky, Dwarven Berserkers need steroids and a little more board control.
    Last edited by Strawberry Dwarf; 06-11-2019 at 03:52 PM.
    My decks from real paper cards:

    [Modern] Green Deathtouch
    [Vintage] Suicide Red
    [Casual Legacy] Blood Bats
    [Legacy] White Suspend Aggro Control

  2. #2
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    Re: [deck] Suicide Red

    I've seen some creative decks that you've posted, it's pretty cool to see someone dive so deep.

    I think if Immolating Souleater is your main threat then I would suggest splashing white for Children of Korliss. It lets you essentially double your pump ability. White also opens up a card like Angel's Grace and Silence, cards that can give you protection. I also like Monestary Swiftspear in this deck. It isn't as explosive as Immolating Souleater but it costs a full mana less. I would probably cut the Inner-Flame Acolytes for Swiftspears (which have built in haste.) I'm also thinking that the dwarven theme is fun, but just completely off-strategy. I honestly think you'd be better off just jamming a bunch of burn spells or free draw spells to trigger Swiftspear (Manamorphose, Mishra's Bauble) or adding in rituals to power out your combo (which double as pumps for Swiftspear) like Rite of Flame. Even something like Lotus Petal would be very good. You're all-in, might as well go as much all-in as you can.
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    Re: [deck] Suicide Red

    Why not play this combo in Pauper or Legacy? Vintage is such a broken format with overpowered cards. You can run the same combo in other formats and should do better.

    If you want to compete in Vintage with this, I highly recommend playing 4 Gorilla Shaman maindeck to blow up mana rocks. Null Rod would be ideal but shuts down your combo.

    InnerFlame Acolyte seems win-more. You're rarely going to get the right mana and cards to win with haste. Too high variance. Would another disruptive creature or Blood Moon be better?

    Ancient Tomb should help power out turn 1 Souleater and speed up some of your other stuff too. I think those are still "budget" relative to the vintage format.

    Gamble could help find a combo piece quickly.

  4. #4
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    Re: [deck] Suicide Red

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Why not play this combo in Pauper or Legacy? Vintage is such a broken format with overpowered cards. You can run the same combo in other formats and should do better.

    If you want to compete in Vintage with this, I highly recommend playing 4 Gorilla Shaman maindeck to blow up mana rocks. Null Rod would be ideal but shuts down your combo.

    InnerFlame Acolyte seems win-more. You're rarely going to get the right mana and cards to win with haste. Too high variance. Would another disruptive creature or Blood Moon be better?

    Ancient Tomb should help power out turn 1 Souleater and speed up some of your other stuff too. I think those are still "budget" relative to the vintage format.

    Gamble could help find a combo piece quickly.
    I doubt this would perform better in Modern/Legacy/Pauper, because in these formats instant spot removals are everywhere, while in Vintage not. Killing my life-costly pumped doublestriker means deep trouble and Bolt against means immediate loss. In Vintage, only Abrupt Decay is played heavily, and during the crucial T2-T3 most blue-based P9 or colorless Workshop or Bazaar-dredge decks don't usually have to catch.

    My intent wasn't to create another Tier1_power9.dck or Hatebear.dck. This is a deck I would play now if I got an opportunity to play Vintage somewhere.

    I playtested dozens matches against full-powered (except Timetwister) Oath deck and my experience is following:
    - 1/3 of games I kill him before he does anything relevant
    - 1/3 of games he plays Oath, but I get rid of my creatures with Skullclamp + Harvest + Fling + Bloodfire Dwarf and finish him later with pumped haste Souleater, Encampment and Bolts
    - 1/3 of games I lose, because Oath triggers, or he plays SnT, or he hardcasts a dude (Griselbrand usually), or he gets infinite turns with Voltaic Key + Time Vault combo, or he slowly builds up the Jace, the Mind Sculptor and destroys my library.

    Also, I tried to play such Oath deck myself against various Vintage archetypes. It is much harder deck to play with plenty of early decisions, e.g. hands to keep, the order of lands played/fetched, what to counter with FoW etc. Definitely not my taste.

    Edit: Tested some more vs Jacestorm, Stax, Shops, Survival and Ichorid - with AI only Shops offer reasonable resistance.
    Last edited by Strawberry Dwarf; 04-11-2019 at 04:37 PM.
    My decks from real paper cards:

    [Modern] Green Deathtouch
    [Vintage] Suicide Red
    [Casual Legacy] Blood Bats
    [Legacy] White Suspend Aggro Control

  5. #5
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    Re: [deck] Suicide Red

    People like to pimp their Old-School, Vintage and Legacy decks, so here it is:



    As you see:
    - John Avon - Mountains only
    - Dwarven Warriors and one Ligtning Bolt from Revised
    - Flings marked from Stronghold preview

    My decks from real paper cards:

    [Modern] Green Deathtouch
    [Vintage] Suicide Red
    [Casual Legacy] Blood Bats
    [Legacy] White Suspend Aggro Control

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