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Thread: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

  1. #1

    BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    The new card dreadhorde arcanist can cast 0 cc spells like hypergenesis or restore balance for free. Hypergenesis seems like the obvious choice, but I think makes for the less interesting deck. Zombie tribal seems like a decent starting point, I like these two:

    Cryptbreaker - pitches suspend cards for value
    death baron - increases dreadhorde's power to cast higher cc things

    Thoughts?


    4 dreadhorde arcanist
    3 cryptbreaker
    2 gravecrawler
    4 death baron
    1 midnight reaper
    1 diregraf colossus

    4 entomb
    1 ancestral vision
    1 restore balance
    1 living end
    1 wheel of fate

    4 faithless looting
    4 lightning bolt
    1 fatal push
    1 diabolic edict
    1 thoughtseize
    1 collective brutality
    3 cabal therapy
    2 goblin bombardment
    1 electrodominance
    1 abrade

    4 bloodstained mire
    1 mountain
    3 swamp
    4 badlands
    4 marsh flats
    4 cavern of souls

    SB:
    15 ?
    Last edited by kinda; 04-19-2019 at 07:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  2. #2

    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    I had some ideas along a similar line, I think some flaws with your list are:
    - The argument for Death Baron buffing the 1/3 isn't that relevant when the only spell you have that costs 2 or more are 1 Electrodominance 1 Abrade and 1 Brutality
    - I would try to choose 1 aspect of the deck to lean into rather than play all of Ancestral Vision, Wheel, Living End, and Balance
    - If you're going to go with Entomb + Living End as a thing then I would try to lean into this harder (bigger/more fatties, possibly cycling creatures, reanimate)

    But I didn't really think about it in a Zombardment shell (only in Mardu/Grixis midrange / control decks)
    The synergy of Entomb/Gravecrawler with the 1/3 and e.g. Therapy is interesting but I think you're playing too many bad zombie cards

  3. #3
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    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    No point in doing it just for memes if the deck doesn't actually serve a purpose.

    So you can cast a 0cc card.. but what card do you want to cast and why? Any and all of them FTmemes kekek? But they're not even all good in your decklist.


    Ancestral Vision - good for almost any plan, easy include

    Wheel of Fate - can you profit from wheel effects more than the opponent? You're not Storm. You're not a wheel combo deck. Giving them a full grip of 7 could lose you the game, especially if they have explosive cards (e.g. combo) or their cards are higher average power level than yours.

    Slaughter Pact - Ok sure you can kill a creature for free (and then pay 2B next upkeep or lose the game), but with all the hoops you have to jump through to enable the GY cast, why not just play Fatal Push or Snuff Out? Arcanist can cast Fatal Push from the graveyard too...

    Restore Balance - Balance is certainly broken, but it's much more broken in decks built to abuse it. This deck isn't built to abuse Balance. You might have more creatures and lands than the opponent. You could build around Balance, but that would be a very different controlling deck.

    Living End - Again, this is a card you build around. It's not that great in random tribal creature decks. It's strong when you consistently have strong creatures in the graveyard.

    I would think about which 0cc cards you want to cheat out and why, then try to build the deck to abuse those cards. Balance, Hypergenesis, Living End and even Wheel of Fate aren't that good in random decks but are much better in decks desigend to abuse the effect.

  4. #4

    BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    On the contrary I like the Zombardment shell and i think you should lean more into it and run whole playset of wheel of fortunes. If you can benefit more from the ’discard the hand aspect’ then you’ve broken the symetri. You could also run unmask to take their best card and... this might be the right place for underworld dreams!

  5. #5

    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    Thanks for the ideas. No clue what the best version is but I'll definitely test some versions. I agree that some of the suspend cards are situationally not great but that hopefully is helped by entomb. You can get what you need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  6. #6
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    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    i might consider taking this guy into some kind of rug deck with noble hierarch, this would give you the ability to also cast all your cantrips. i think there's an exalted land as well, but not sure if that would be good enough, as it's a bit weak on its own.

    maybe hypergenesis like you mentioned, but with a rug build. could be really entertaining.
    -rob

  7. #7
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    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    I agree that some of the suspend cards are situationally not great but that hopefully is helped by entomb. You can get what you need.
    Even if they're only situationally good, are they good often enough to be worth a maindeck slot? If it's too situational, leave in the SB? You should have 4 Ancestral Visions before making room for fringe ones. Ancestral Recall is a good card. It's more broken than Eureka, Living Death, and Wheel of Fortune. There are very few situations where a zombie aggro deck prefers to let the opponent draw 7 instead of just drawing 3 yourself (if you're not storm, wheel is bad).

    Balance is busted, but it's much worse in a Zombardment shell than in a creature-light control shell. You'll always have at least 1 creature when you cast it, probably more creatures than the opponent if it's safe to attack with Arcanist. Can't even kill a single Delver, Griselbrand, Gurmag Angler, Mentor, or TKS. Maybe it makes them discard some cards, lose 1 land, or kills some tokens... It could be OK as a 1-of, but it's the kind of card that gets much better if you build the deck around it.

    To make Balance/Living Death better, think about a sacrifice outlet like Carrion Feeder. It's good with Gravecrawler and combos with Living End as a 1-sided Wrath.

    Why Slaughter Pact instead of Fatal Push?? Arcanist is "less than or equal to". You can cast 1cc spells like Fatal Push or Lightning Bolt for free too, and they don't say "lose the game" on them. Entomb into Slaughter Pact seems terribad when 1cc kill spells exist.

  8. #8
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    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    RB Memeless Looting?


    //Spells: 30
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Entomb
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Reanimate
    4 Exhume
    4 Unmask
    1 Wheel of Fate
    1 Living End

    //Creatures: 12
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    3 Griselbrand
    1 Sire of Insanity

    //Mana: 18
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Swamp
    2 Badlands
    1 Scrubland

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Wear // Tear
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Faerie Macabre
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Blazing Archon
    1 Restore Balance


    If you're playing 4 Entomb and 4 Faithless Looting, why not play Griselbrand? It's so easy to squeeze in and makes the deck so much better.

    Arcanist can cast any of the 1cc spells for free (20 spells) plus the two 0cc spells. Wheel of Fate might be good in explosive combo: Unmask, Petal and Ritual let you dump your hand pretty fast. Sire of Insanity/Chancellor/Iona also mitigate the risk of opponent getting 7 new cards. Free Living End is obviously good in Reanimator as a back-up plan and board control against the opponent. Arcanist can also just pitch itself to flashback Therapy or recycle Reanimate or Entomb (if one gets countered or discarded) to make the combo more consistent, removing the need for Animate Dead.
    Last edited by FTW; 04-20-2019 at 06:08 PM.

  9. #9

    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    RB Memeless Looting?


    //Spells: 30
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Entomb
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Reanimate
    4 Exhume
    4 Unmask
    1 Wheel of Fate
    1 Living End

    //Creatures: 12
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    3 Griselbrand
    1 Sire of Insanity

    //Mana: 18
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Swamp
    2 Badlands
    1 Scrubland

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Wear // Tear
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Faerie Macabre
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Blazing Archon
    1 Restore Balance


    If you're playing 4 Entomb and 4 Faithless Looting, why not play Griselbrand? It's so easy to squeeze in and makes the deck so much better.

    Arcanist can cast any of the 1cc spells for free (20 spells) plus the two 0cc spells. Wheel of Fate might be good in explosive combo: Unmask, Petal and Ritual let you dump your hand pretty fast. Sire of Insanity/Chancellor/Iona also mitigate the risk of opponent getting 7 new cards. Free Living End is obviously good in Reanimator as a back-up plan and board control against the opponent. Arcanist can also just pitch itself to flashback Therapy or recycle Reanimate or Entomb (if one gets countered or discarded) to make the combo more consistent, removing the need for Animate Dead.
    Looks very close to what I'd run in non proxy events I think. Likely minus some chancellor or unmask for more discard dreadhorde can play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  10. #10

    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    It seems like Finale of Promise could work in a deck like this, though casting it with X=2 is pretty expensive.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  12. #12

    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    The new card crashing footfalls might be the best entomb target!
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  13. #13
    Last edited by kinda; 06-23-2019 at 05:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  14. #14
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    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Boss Krenko with the 5-0! Much rhinos!

    https://youtu.be/vMpRq8Zevhs
    Strong build!

    Arcanist is at his best just casting 1cc value spells like Brainstorm and Lightning Bolt, and the memes are a lot better with 4 Ancestral Recall and 4 Rhinos than the random other suspend cards. Cascade and As Foretold give him a lot of back-up plans to get them off, and he can even just suspend them for 1 mana and wait 4 turns.

    Never thought I'd see someone beat Grixis 2-for-1 by playing 3-for-1s and 6-for-1s lol.

  15. #15
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    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    Was fun to watch. Waterfalls deck was always a cool deck. Rhino and arcanist add a lot to it.
    -rob

  16. #16
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    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    Was fun to watch. Waterfalls deck was always a cool deck. Rhino and arcanist add a lot to it.
    With Rhinos, Arcanist, and Wrenn I'd say this is a major upgrade to Waterfalls. There are so many angles to grind out card advantage. With 8 payoffs instead of 3-4, the cascade engine is much more consistent too. And you can either cascade into them, suspend them, cast them with AF, or flashback with Arcanist! Then there's also Wastelock, fetchland recursion, reusing Brainstorms, Sylvan Library, Jace... the deck is pure grind.

    Force of Negation is a great hedge against the weak early game.

  17. #17

    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    With Rhinos, Arcanist, and Wrenn I'd say this is a major upgrade to Waterfalls. There are so many angles to grind out card advantage. With 8 payoffs instead of 3-4, the cascade engine is much more consistent too. And you can either cascade into them, suspend them, cast them with AF, or flashback with Arcanist! Then there's also Wastelock, fetchland recursion, reusing Brainstorms, Sylvan Library, Jace... the deck is pure grind.

    Force of Negation is a great hedge against the weak early game.
    I'd cut the sinkhole I think for the fourth arcanist but yes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  18. #18

    Re: BR Memes (dreadhorde arcanist plus 0cc suspend cards)

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

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