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Thread: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

  1. #21
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    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsaya View Post
    The nice thing is that the first tendrils does not need to be lethal.
    Bolas's citadel + tendrils -> you pay 4 life, but win 4

    If you add other spells, besides the initial requirement of being able to pay 4, each tendrils help you to cast more spells.
    That's a good point, because then something like a double Tendrils can win from "lower" starting life, for example.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  2. #22

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Bolas's citadel is, IMO, a better wincon than Adnauseam because it casts the spells instead of drawing them. It's not 100% better, because you need ways to get around the lands (ponder, preordain, brainstorm) and dies to removal, but I think that if you build with it in mind the deck is better. I also think it means you run fewer lands and end up with something closer to belcher than storm.

  3. #23

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Bolas's citadel is, IMO, a better wincon than Adnauseam because it casts the spells instead of drawing them. It's not 100% better, because you need ways to get around the lands (ponder, preordain, brainstorm) and dies to removal, but I think that if you build with it in mind the deck is better. I also think it means you run fewer lands and end up with something closer to belcher than storm.
    The extra casting cost is probably the biggest drawback.

  4. #24

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    The extra casting cost is probably the biggest drawback.
    I'm not sure I buy that. It's one mana and you make that back the first spell you cast.

  5. #25
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    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    turn 1, ancient tomb - jet medallion, turn 2 black mana source + dark rit or cabal rit -> citadel. dunno if that's good or not.
    -rob

  6. #26

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Works kinda well with LED. You still gonna draw some cards from your cantrips/tutors but you can always LED first!
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  7. #27
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    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Welder Storm?


    //Creatures: 5
    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Inkwell Leviathan

    //Artifacts: 22
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Defense Grid
    4 Bolas's Citadel
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Aetherflux Reservoir

    //Spells: 21
    4 Entomb
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Past in Flames

    //Lands: 16
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn
    3 Badlands
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain


    Plan 1: Get it into the GY with Faithless Looting, Entomb or LED and Weld it into play.

    Plan 2: Hardcast it with fast mana + LED + Infernal Tutor

    Plan 3: Hardcast it with Dark Rituals / Ancient Tomb

    Plan 4: Ignore Citadel and Welder. Hide behind Defense Grid to play as a bad ANT deck (chain rituals, mana rocks, LED/IT, PiF to make a lethal Tendrils)

    Plan 5: Weld out Inkwell Leviathan

    EDIT: This deck could also run 4 Burning Wish and run a Wishboard including:
    Show and Tell
    Ill-Gotten Gains
    Past in Flames
    Tendrils of Agony
    Trash for Treasure
    Massacre
    Reforge the Soul
    Dark Petition



    Or there's the blue cantrip strategy...


    //Spells: 31
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Personal Tutor
    3 Lim-Dul's Vault
    4 Show and Tell
    4 Cunning Wish
    4 Tendrils of Agony

    //Artifacts: 14
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Aetherflux Reservoir
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    //Lands: 15
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Swamp

    //Wishboard:
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Fatal Push
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Angel's Grace
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Lim-Dul's Vault

  8. #28

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    How does this card work with kicker buyback overload etc... ?
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  9. #29
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    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Welder Storm?


    //Creatures: 5
    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Inkwell Leviathan

    //Artifacts: 22
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Defense Grid
    4 Bolas's Citadel
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Aetherflux Reservoir

    //Spells: 21
    4 Entomb
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Past in Flames

    //Lands: 16
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn
    3 Badlands
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain


    Plan 1: Get it into the GY with Faithless Looting, Entomb or LED and Weld it into play.

    Plan 2: Hardcast it with fast mana + LED + Infernal Tutor

    Plan 3: Hardcast it with Dark Rituals / Ancient Tomb

    Plan 4: Ignore Citadel and Welder. Hide behind Defense Grid to play as a bad ANT deck (chain rituals, mana rocks, LED/IT, PiF to make a lethal Tendrils)

    Plan 5: Weld out Inkwell Leviathan

    EDIT: This deck could also run 4 Burning Wish and run a Wishboard including:
    Show and Tell
    Ill-Gotten Gains
    Past in Flames
    Tendrils of Agony
    Trash for Treasure
    Massacre
    Reforge the Soul
    Dark Petition



    Or there's the blue cantrip strategy...


    //Spells: 31
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Personal Tutor
    3 Lim-Dul's Vault
    4 Show and Tell
    4 Cunning Wish
    4 Tendrils of Agony

    //Artifacts: 14
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Aetherflux Reservoir
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    //Lands: 15
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Swamp

    //Wishboard:
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Fatal Push
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Angel's Grace
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Lim-Dul's Vault
    i like the ability to get 4x personal tutors -> X lim dul's vaults into tendrils. that's pretty cool, and by default they add consistency. couldn't hurt to have a few forces in there though. you likely do not need 3x aetherflux. maybe move down to 1 and cut 2 tendrils and then you have room for 4 force and 1 griselbrand. ideally you want to have more than 4 show and tell targets. i'd probably rework it to look something like (didn't touch the lands)

    //Spells: 30
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Personal Tutor
    3 Lim-Dul's Vault
    4 Show and Tell
    3 Cunning Wish
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    3 Force of Will

    //Artifacts: 9
    4 Lotus Petal
    1 Aetherflux Reservoir
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    //Creatures: 4
    4 Griselbrand

    //Lands: 17
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    -rob

  10. #30
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    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Welder Storm?


    //Creatures: 5
    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Inkwell Leviathan

    //Artifacts: 22
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Defense Grid
    4 Bolas's Citadel
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Aetherflux Reservoir

    //Spells: 21
    4 Entomb
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Past in Flames

    //Lands: 16
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn
    3 Badlands
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain


    Plan 1: Get it into the GY with Faithless Looting, Entomb or LED and Weld it into play.

    Plan 2: Hardcast it with fast mana + LED + Infernal Tutor

    Plan 3: Hardcast it with Dark Rituals / Ancient Tomb

    Plan 4: Ignore Citadel and Welder. Hide behind Defense Grid to play as a bad ANT deck (chain rituals, mana rocks, LED/IT, PiF to make a lethal Tendrils)

    Plan 5: Weld out Inkwell Leviathan

    EDIT: This deck could also run 4 Burning Wish and run a Wishboard including:
    Show and Tell
    Ill-Gotten Gains
    Past in Flames
    Tendrils of Agony
    Trash for Treasure
    Massacre
    Reforge the Soul
    Dark Petition



    Or there's the blue cantrip strategy...


    //Spells: 31
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Personal Tutor
    3 Lim-Dul's Vault
    4 Show and Tell
    4 Cunning Wish
    4 Tendrils of Agony

    //Artifacts: 14
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Aetherflux Reservoir
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    //Lands: 15
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Swamp

    //Wishboard:
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Fatal Push
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Angel's Grace
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Lim-Dul's Vault
    Is it worth it to play Trash for Treasure here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  11. #31

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    How does this card work with kicker buyback overload etc... ?
    The "rather" means that it's an alternative cost. So X has to be 0 and additional costs (like kicker or buyback) can be paid, but other alternative costs (like evoke or overload) cannot be used.

  12. #32

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    It occurred to me that Citadel could be a good thing to find with Soulfire Grand Master + Madcap Experiment.

  13. #33

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    That welder storm list looks hot. I would cut some tendrils, add some artifact lands and more fast mana. Maybe a Chrome Mox or two.

  14. #34
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    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    That welder storm list looks hot. I would cut some tendrils, add some artifact lands and more fast mana. Maybe a Chrome Mox or two.
    Tendrils fuels the Citadel because it recoups your life total and lets you dig deeper. But yeah, Chrome Mox seems great. I was messing around with a PSI/All Spells-type mana base to try and work with fewer lands.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
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    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  15. #35
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    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Some other thoughts:

    1) Slow tutors are really cool with citadel. Running Enlightened tutor can help you find Citadel (if you need it in your hand), or if it's ontop of your library its a fast tutor that searchs out (a) a win con, (b) accel, or (c) ways to filter out lands
    2) You need some ways of filtering out lands - loot spells and all that help, but every now and then you will hit a land on top and your "combo" will screech to a halt. Obviously SDT would've been the bee's knees here. Not sure what is the best card here as nothing really acts like SDT.
    3) probably pointless, but i'm just going to assume there is a great Doomsday pile to run here (might save room in the deck? For example - let's say you run 4 Personal Tutors . . . you can personal tutor into a personal tutor get storm count 4, get doomsday (storm count 5), and arrange to win right then and there. Personal Tutor can also help search for the right Accel if you need it.)

  16. #36
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    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    In the blue version, the idea is that Brainstorm Ponder and Lim-Dul's Vault should give you enough ways to filter chaff off the top of your library while Personal Tutor can set up chains. Maindeck FoW seems good, even if it's a bad reveal off Citadel (Thoughtseize isn't).

    I like the idea of 1 running 1 tutorable Doomsday. Once Bolas's Citadel is in play,
    Personal Tutor -> Doomsday -> Tendrils -> mana rock -> mana rock -> mana rock -> Tendrils is an easy win starting from 0 storm. However it needs at least 14 life.

    Maybe it's worth splashing white for Enlightened Tutor or running Intuition over Cunning Wish so there are more ways to tutor for the Citadel (and Aetherflux). I thought about 4 Griselbrand in the SB as a back-up plan, though it doesn't combo kill because that list has limited fast mana. Omniscience could be a better SnT back-up plan, letting you cantrip a bunch of times into Citadel, Doomsday, or Tendrils directly.


    For the Welder version, topdeck control will be a bigger problem. Faithless Looting can get rid of lands. You can also use the fast mana to cast cards from hand and use tutors to find missing pieces (while resetting the top card). I'm increasingly liking the idea of maindeck Burning Wish and more Chrome Mox. Trash for Treasure is a good back-up plan for Welder. Burning Wish also enables Empty the Warrens as a back-up plan, in case you can't reach enough Storm. With 10+ Goblin tokens you can kill the next turn (combat damage + sacrifice 10 permanents), or you chump block and drain 10 and try again next turn.

    Edit: Updated Welder list


    //Creatures: 5
    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Inkwell Leviathan

    //Artifacts: 22
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Mox Opal
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Defense Grid
    3 Bolas's Citadel
    1 Aetherflux Reservoir

    //Spells: 21
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb
    2 Faithless Looting
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Infernal Tutor
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Past in Flames

    //Lands: 14
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn
    2 Badlands
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain

    //Wishboard:
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Trash for Treasure
    1 Show and Tell
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    1 Doomsday
    1 Past in Flames
    1 Massacre
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Dark Petition


    For example: with Burning Wish in hand and Bolas's Citadel in hand or GY, and LED + other artifact in play, you can Wish for Trash for Treasure (cracking LED for RRR), then Trash another artifact to get Citadel in play. Without LED you get Show and Tell instead and then cast it next turn.

  17. #37

    Re: [SCD]Bolas's Citadel

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    In the blue version, the idea is that Brainstorm Ponder and Lim-Dul's Vault should give you enough ways to filter chaff off the top of your library while Personal Tutor can set up chains. Maindeck FoW seems good, even if it's a bad reveal off Citadel (Thoughtseize isn't).

    I like the idea of 1 running 1 tutorable Doomsday. Once Bolas's Citadel is in play,
    Personal Tutor -> Doomsday -> Tendrils -> mana rock -> mana rock -> mana rock -> Tendrils is an easy win starting from 0 storm. However it needs at least 14 life.

    Maybe it's worth splashing white for Enlightened Tutor or running Intuition over Cunning Wish so there are more ways to tutor for the Citadel (and Aetherflux). I thought about 4 Griselbrand in the SB as a back-up plan, though it doesn't combo kill because that list has limited fast mana. Omniscience could be a better SnT back-up plan, letting you cantrip a bunch of times into Citadel, Doomsday, or Tendrils directly.
    Hi all. I saw this thread and was intrigued since seeing this card. I playtested against a few different decks with FTW's blue/black version and had a good time. Has there been any thought towards Fabricate or fast mana like Dark Ritual/Cabal Ritual? The reason I ask is because I often found myself feeling short on mana, either through wasteland or through other taxing methods.

    I also agree with some of the earlier posts about less Aetherflux and adding in some number of Force and Griselbrand.

    Right now I have something like this:
    // Citadel Storm mk 2

    // 60 Maindeck

    // 10 Artifact
    4 Lotus Petal
    2 Aetherflux Reservoir
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    // 1 Creature
    1 Griselbrand

    // 13 Instant
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Lim-Dl's Vault
    3 Cunning Wish
    3 Force of Will

    // 17 Land
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Island
    1 Swamp

    // 19 Sorcery
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Ponder
    4 Personal Tutor
    4 Show and Tell
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Fabricate

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