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Thread: Cloning Spark Double

  1. #1

    Cloning Spark Double

    Suppose there's a Spark Double in play under my control that isn't copying anything and a Clone comes into play under my control.

    Now I can choose to have clone can enter the battlefield as a copy of Spark Double. That means that there's another replacement effect which - it seems - means I can pick Spark Double again and so on. Eventually I'll have to copy something else or just not copy since it's a may ability.

    Is that legal, and, if so, does it come into play with a +1/+1 (or loyalty) counter for each time it copied the Spark Double?

  2. #2
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    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    So a 'real-world' scenario would be something like:

    Lord of the Unreal on the battlefield, cast Spark Double and choose not to copy any creature.
    Then cast Phantasmal Image copying the Spark Double, which would copy the Image, which would copy the Spark Double, etc.

    I don't know the answer... but was interested enough to attempt to fully grasp the question.

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    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    My guess would be that rather than an arbitrarily large creature, you have Clone enter as Spark Double....and you're already entered onto the battlefield so no more cloning stuff.

  4. #4

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    My guess would be that rather than an arbitrarily large creature, you have Clone enter as Spark Double....and you're already entered onto the battlefield so no more cloning stuff.
    The second replacement certainly happens:

    706.5. An object that enters the battlefield “as a copy”or “that’s a copy”of another object becomes a copy as it enters the battlefield. It doesn’t enter the battlefield, and then become a copy of that permanent. If the text that’s being copied includes any abilities that replace the enters-the-battlefield event (such as “enters the battlefield with”or “as [this] enters the battlefield”abilities), those abilities will take effect. Also, any enters-the-battlefield triggered abilities of the copy will have a chance to trigger.
    There's potentially something similar with Dack's Duplicate and stacking dethrone.

  5. #5

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    I got a ruling on judge chat that this doesn't work. Though the reasoning seems pretty strange to me.

  6. #6
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    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I got a ruling on judge chat that this doesn't work. Though the reasoning seems pretty strange to me.
    If you can copy and paste it I could try to reason though it.
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  7. #7

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    If you can copy and paste it I could try to reason though it.
    I closed the window, but it was something like "the effect that puts the +1/+1 counter on is overwritten by [edit: other] copy effects."

    Edit: This seems bizarre to me because the effect "overrites" itself by default.

  8. #8
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    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I closed the window, but it was something like "the effect that puts the +1/+1 counter on is overwritten by [edit: other] copy effects."

    Edit: This seems bizarre to me because the effect "overrites" itself by default.
    I think it has to do with the fact that you don't keep applying replacement effects into each other.

    For example, if you had two Doubling Season in play, then put a +1/+1 counter on something, you don't apply one Doubling Season, then the other, then reapply the other to infinity. Each Doubling Season applies only once to a given event.

    So, maybe that is the same for these copy effects?
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  9. #9

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I think it has to do with the fact that you don't keep applying replacement effects into each other.

    For example, if you had two Doubling Season in play, then put a +1/+1 counter on something, you don't apply one Doubling Season, then the other, then reapply the other to infinity. Each Doubling Season applies only once to a given event.

    So, maybe that is the same for these copy effects?
    AFAICT Every time you enter as, it's a new replacement effect.

    Suppose there are two different "clones" say Phantasmal Image and Spark Double in play under my control with neither copying anyhing and Mirror Entity comes into play under my control, and a Llanowar Elf in play under my opponent's control.

    Could I have the Mirror Entity copy Spark Double, then have the [copy of] Spark Double copy the Phantasmal Image, and then have the [copy of] Phantasmal Image copy the Llanowar Elf?

    Would it produce a [copy of] Llanowar Elf with a +1/+1 counter?
    Last edited by rufus; 05-07-2019 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Clarify that some things are copies.

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    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    AFAICT Every time you enter as, it's a new replacement effect.

    Suppose there are two different "clones" say Phantasmal Image and Spark Double in play under my control with neither copying anyhing and Mirror Entity comes into play under my control, and a Llanowar Elf in play under my opponent's control.

    Could I have the Mirror Entity copy Spark Double, then have the [copy of] Spark Double copy the Phantasmal Image, and then have the [copy of] Phantasmal Image copy the Llanowar Elf?

    Would it produce a [copy of] Llanowar Elf with a +1/+1 counter?
    Well, I am confused by this example, because Mirror Entity doesn't have a copy ability. But in any case, if we say that it is a Clone, then no, I don't think you get the +1/+1 counter, because the last applied replacement effect will be the one that determines it's characteristics. So, maybe that is the "correct" way to think about it? Maybe that is what they meant by one "overwirting" the other? I don't think you can "accumulate" +1/+1 counters from Spark Double by having it copy itself. If it's effect is the last one applied, it will get a +1/+1, no matter how many times it Spark Doubled itself, or whatever.

    I think (note, I am not a Judge and not 100% sure) but if you were to play a Clone in this case, copy Image, then copy Spark Double and copy the Elf, then you would get the +1/+1 counter (but I don't think there is a way to get more than one counter).
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  11. #11

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    ...
    I think (note, I am not a Judge and not 100% sure) but if you were to play a Clone in this case, copy Image, then copy Spark Double and copy the Elf, then you would get the +1/+1 counter (but I don't think there is a way to get more than one counter).
    Sorry, I meant Mirror Image. Spark Double can't copy an opponent's creature so it doesn't work in that order.

    OK, let's try it a different way:

    Suppose that Spark Double copies Arixmenthes, Slumbering Isle. Does it come into play with a +1/+1 counter or not?

    If the answer is no, then the spark double +1/+1 ability waits to check until after it's entered play so there's some kind of 'delayed effect' which happens after the copying process is complete, and there's nothing that overwrites that effect.

    If the answer is yes, then the +1/+1 counter got put on Arixmenthes 'before' it entered play. So if Spark Double copies Phantasmal Image the Image should get a +1/+1 counter 'before' it enters play, and AFAICT there's nothing that removes that counter when Phantasmal Image turns into a copy of something else.

    [EDIT:
    The Phantasmal Image ability is a may. So, does a Spark Double copy of Phantasmal Image have a +1/+1 counter on it when I decide whether to use the ability or not? And, if not, when does the +1/+1 counter get put on it?
    ]

    I am curious to know what magic on-line and arena do.

  12. #12

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Essentially the copy effects of clones don't stack with each other. They overwrite each other and you must choose which one to apply

    Say you control Glorius Anthem (so your 0/0 don't die), Phantasmal Image (not copying anything), Spark Double (not copying anything), and Squire. You cast Clone.

    As Clone enters the battlefield, you choose to have it enter the battlefield as a copy of Spark Double. Spark Double's ability overwrites the ability of Clone. You get to make another selection for Spark Double's ability as to what to copy. You choose Phantasmal Image. Phantasmal Image ability overwrites the ability of Spark Double. You make a selection for Phantasmal Image ability as to what to copy. You choose Squire. The original Clone card enters the battlefield as a copy of Squire with no counters on it and the ability "Sacrifice this when it becomes a target".

    If you didn't control the Squire you would be stuck in a loop of decisions. You could repeatedly enter the clone as Spark Double, copying Spark Double, which copies Spark Double, but because each enter the battlefield replacement overwrites the previous one you don't get any extra counters and at some point to progress the game I assume you would be forced to have the clone enter copying nothing.

    The most relevant rule is 616.1:
    616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).

    616.1a If any of the replacement and/or prevention effects are self-replacement effects (see rule 614.15), one of them must be chosen. If not, proceed to rule 616.1b.

    616.1b If any of the replacement and/or prevention effects would modify under whose control an object would enter the battlefield, one of them must be chosen. If not, proceed to rule 616.1c.

    616.1c If any of the replacement and/or prevention effects would cause an object to become a copy of another object as it enters the battlefield, one of them must be chosen. If not, proceed to rule 616.1d.

    616.1d Any of the applicable replacement and/or prevention effects may be chosen.

    616.1e Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply.
    Example: Two permanents are on the battlefield. One is an enchantment that reads “If a card would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, instead exile it,” and the other is a creature that reads “If [this creature] would die, instead shuffle it into its owner’s library.” If the creature is destroyed, its controller decides which replacement to apply first; the other does nothing.
    Example: Essence of the Wild reads “Creatures you control enter the battlefield as a copy of Essence of the Wild.” A player who controls Essence of the Wild casts Rusted Sentinel, which normally enters the battlefield tapped. As it enters the battlefield, the copy effect from Essence of the Wild is applied first. As a result, it no longer has the ability that causes it to enter the battlefield tapped. Rusted Sentinel will enter the battlefield as an untapped copy of Essence of the Wild.
    To adapt this Essence of the Wild example to the current context:
    Example: Spark Double reads "You may have this enter the battlefield as a copy of a creature you control except it enters with an additional +1+1 counter". A player who controls spark double casts Phantasmal Image, which normally enters the battlefield as a copy of a creature with the 'Illusion' text. As Phantasmal Image enters the battlefield, its controller chooses to have it enter as a copy of Spark Double, and this copy effect is applied first. As a result, it no longer has the ability that makes it enter the battlefield as a copy with the Illusion text. Phantasmal Image will enter the battlefield as a copy of something with a +1 counter on it.

    If you Spark Double Arixmethes it does get a +1 counter. During the process of Spark Double entering the battlefield you choose the Spark Double effect first in 616.1c and then Arixmethes etb replacement (Etb tapped with 5 slumber counters) applies later in 616.1d. You will get a tapped Arixmethes with 5 slumber counters and a +1 counter. This is different to Spark Double copying Phantasmal Image because both Spark and Phantasmal effects modifying the ETB are copy effects that apply in 616.1c, so you have to pick one, and the other is forgotten/lost/overwritten.

  13. #13

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    ...Rule 616.1c...
    The copy effects on the clones are all optional. (They all have "you may" clauses.) So rule 616.1c is effectively irellevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    ...
    As Clone enters the battlefield, you choose to have it enter the battlefield as a copy of Spark Double. Spark Double's ability overwrites the ability of Clone. You get to make another selection for Spark Double's ability as to what to copy. You choose Phantasmal Image. Phantasmal Image ability overwrites the ability of Spark Double. You make a selection for Phantasmal Image ability as to what to copy. ...
    I'm going to go through it a little bit more slowly:

    Clone is coming into play so its replacement ability takes effect and I may have it enter as a copy of another creature.

    I chose to have clone's replacement ability "overwrite" clone with a copy of spark double. "You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield." This is not "overwriting the ability" but "overwriting the card."

    Now the copy of Spark Double is coming into play so its replacement ability takes effect and I may have it enter as a copy of another creature.

    I chose to have the copy of Spark Double's replacement ability "overwrite" the copy of Spark Double with a copy of Phantasmal Image. So the copy of Spark Double becomes a copy of Phantasmal Image. Again, this is not "overwriting the ability" but "overwriting the card."

    Now a copy of Phantasmal Image is comping into play so its replacement ability takes effect and I may have it enter as a copy of another creature.

    The example you gave continues on, but I want to stop here and ask:

    The copy ability on Phantasmal Image has a "you may" clause. Since it's optional, I can chose not to copy anything. If I chose not to copy anything, does the copy of Phantasmal Image come into play with a +1/+1 counter?

    Supposing that that's the case, where does this +1/+1 counter come from:

    Does Phantasmal Image already have a +1/+1 counter on it while I'm making this choice?

    Did the the copy of Phantasmal Image somehow gain text or an ability that says "if this enters the battlefield as a creature it gets an additional +1/+1 counter" as part of the copy process?

    Is is because there is some unresolved ability that puts a +1/+1 counter on Phantasmal image while I'm making this choice?

  14. #14
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    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Well, I think it's the case that when a Replacement effect replaces an event, the replaced event is treated as if it did not happen. So, in all these cases, you'll note that you are not confused at to if the intermediate copy effect of Phantasmal Image grants the Illusion subtype, not give it the "when this creature is the target..." triggered ability either. Because, in the event that a replacement effect replaces something, the replaced event never happened. I think this is why, in the case that you replace Phantasmal Image's repalcement effect with Spark Double's, it would not still be an Illusion with the "target trigger" it would get a +1/+1 counter. In the reverse case, where Spark Double's replacement effect is replaced with Image's, it would be an Illusion in addition to it's other types and get the "target trigger."

    See these rules:

    614.5. A replacement effect doesn't invoke itself repeatedly; it gets only one opportunity to affect an event or any modified events that may replace it.Example: A player controls two permanents, each with an ability that reads "If a creature you control would deal damage to a permanent or player, it deals double that damage to that permanent or player instead." A creature that normally deals 2 damage will deal 8 damage-not just 4, and not an infinite amount.


    614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can't be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
    Also note that when Spark Double's replacement effect "happens" Spark Double is not on the battlefield, so in any case, there really isn't a "time" or "place" to accumulate +1/+1 counters, even if replacement effects worked like that (but I'm pretty sure they don't).

    I think the fundamental confusion here is that Replacement Effects do not work the same way as triggers. So, I think it is very likely the Judge ruling you got is right, it's just complicated to understand why. Which is not helped by the fact that rule 706's wording tends to be a little more loosey-goosey than I think anyone would really like.
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  15. #15

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, I think it's the case that when a Replacement effect replaces an event, the replaced event is treated as if it did not happen.
    ...
    Ok, then I guess the question is "what's getting replaced"? Suppose that a Spark Double that an opponent played is coming into play under my control because of Gather Specimens. Gather specimens is also an effect that replaces how creatures enter play. Does using the copy ability on Spark Double cancel the Gather Specimens effect? Does the Gather Specimens effect prevent Spark Double from copying something?

    Also note that when Spark Double's replacement effect "happens" Spark Double is not on the battlefield, so in any case, there really isn't a "time" or "place" to accumulate +1/+1 counters, even if replacement effects worked like that (but I'm pretty sure they don't).
    The existence of skullbriar-the-walking-grave suggests that there aren't a lot of limitations on where cards can or cannot have counters. Suppose, for example, that Skullbriar is coming into play from the graveyard with +1/+1 counters and there's a Essence of the Wild in play. Do the +1/+1 counters stay or not?

  16. #16
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    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Ok, then I guess the question is "what's getting replaced"? Suppose that a Spark Double that an opponent played is coming into play under my control because of Gather Specimens. Gather specimens is also an effect that replaces how creatures enter play. Does using the copy ability on Spark Double cancel the Gather Specimens effect? Does the Gather Specimens effect prevent Spark Double from copying something?
    No, because both are not "copy effects" under 706. By the layer system, a control change effect is applied at a different time, so there is no real "competition" here. For the same reason, I'd think, why Kismet would not mean a Clone could not copy something.

    Note this ruling from Essence of the Wild:

    Replacement effects that modify how a creature enters the battlefield are applied in the following order: first control-changing effects (such as Gather Specimens), then copy effects (such as the abilities of Essence of the Wild and Clone), then all other effects. This is a minor rules change to make Essence of the Wild and similar cards in the future work intuitively.
    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    The existence of skullbriar-the-walking-grave suggests that there aren't a lot of limitations on where cards can or cannot have counters. Suppose, for example, that Skullbriar is coming into play from the graveyard with +1/+1 counters and there's a Essence of the Wild in play. Do the +1/+1 counters stay or not?
    Well, actually, Skullbriar, the Walking Grave's rules text is sort of the exception that proves the rule. Without the rules text stating it to be so, the counters would not "follow" it from zone to zone. Indeed though, I believe it would be a copy of Essence with however many +1/+1 counters it had before moving to the battlefield, because it counters are already on the object, there is no point at which it would "lose" them, despite it losing it's rule text. The question of what would happen if it then died while a copy of Essence. The answer here is that it would lose the counters:

    Skullbriar’s last ability only works if it has that ability in the zone it’s moving from. For example, with Yixlid Jailer (“Cards in graveyards lose all abilities”) on the battlefield, a Skullbriar with a counter on it in a graveyard loses that counter when it’s put onto the battlefield. Conversely, that Skullbriar moving from the graveyard to the battlefield would retain that counter if Humility (“All creatures lose all abilities and are 1/1”) were on the battlefield; if Skullbriar then left the battlefield with Humility still on the battlefield, it would lose the counter.
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  17. #17

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    No, because both are not "copy effects" under 706. By the layer system, a control change effect is applied at a different time, so there is no real "competition" here. For the same reason, I'd think, why Kismet would not mean a Clone could not copy something.
    In the post above it was:

    "Well, I think it's the case that when a Replacement effect replaces an event, the replaced event is treated as if it did not happen. ..."

    Maybe I misunderstood. When clone comes into play there's an effect that replaces clone entering play, and that effect also replaces the text on clone. ("As clone enters play" means that the thing that's getting replaced is "clone entering play," right?)

    Now there are two narratives depending on which of those two replacements is meant. There's a "copy replacement" narrative and a "entering play replacement" narrative, both of which could make some sense.

    The argument above is about the "entering play replacement" narrative.

    The "copy replacement" narrative goes something like this:

    Let's suppose that we have a Spark Double come into play, that copies a Saksashima the Impostor (not copying anythign), that copies Squire.

    Then we could say that Spark Double turns into a (non-legendary) copy of Sakashima which then turns into a (legendary) copy of Squire with the name Sakashima the Imposter. So the copy effect from Sakashima is overwriting the properties of the card and making it legendary after the Spark Double ability had made the copy of Sakashima non-legendary, and we end up with two legendary creatures both of which have the same name.

    Now you might want to say something like "the +1/+1 counter works the same way," but +1/+1 counters are not like card types: +1/+1 counters don't get copied or overwritten by copy effects. Moreover, at least as far as I can tell, the Spark Double effect that adds +1/+1 doesn't become any sort of text or ability on the card so it doesn't seem like it can get overwritten by effects that change the card. (If Spark Double had been templated with something like << ... except it enters with "This enters the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter if it's a creature. This enters the battlefield with an additional loyalty counter if it's a plainswalker." and it isn’t legendary if that permanent is legendary. >> instead of the way it is now then it would make sense that the copy effects would "overwrite" the +1/+1 counter ability.

  18. #18

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    I'm going to go through it a little bit more slowly:
    Clone is coming into play so its replacement ability takes effect and I may have it enter as a copy of another creature.
    I chose to have clone's replacement ability "overwrite" clone with a copy of spark double. "You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield." This is not "overwriting the ability" but "overwriting the card."
    Now the copy of Spark Double is coming into play so its replacement ability takes effect and I may have it enter as a copy of another creature.
    I chose to have the copy of Spark Double's replacement ability "overwrite" the copy of Spark Double with a copy of Phantasmal Image. So the copy of Spark Double becomes a copy of Phantasmal Image. Again, this is not "overwriting the ability" but "overwriting the card."
    Now a copy of Phantasmal Image is comping into play so its replacement ability takes effect and I may have it enter as a copy of another creature.

    The copy ability on Phantasmal Image has a "you may" clause. Since it's optional, I can chose not to copy anything. If I chose not to copy anything, does the copy of Phantasmal Image come into play with a +1/+1 counter?
    My understanding is yes

    Supposing that that's the case, where does this +1/+1 counter come from:
    Does Phantasmal Image already have a +1/+1 counter on it while I'm making this choice?
    Did the the copy of Phantasmal Image somehow gain text or an ability that says "if this enters the battlefield as a creature it gets an additional +1/+1 counter" as part of the copy process?
    Is is because there is some unresolved ability that puts a +1/+1 counter on Phantasmal image while I'm making this choice?
    Spark Doubles copy effect is modifying the way the Clone enters the battlefield. If you choose to have this clone enter as a copy of Phantasmal Image and DONT use the copy effect of Phantasmal Image then the copy effect of Spark Double is not being overwritten by another copy effect, so you get a 0/0 Blue Illusion named Phantasmal Image with a +1+1 counter (from the Spark Double effect) and no 'illusion text'

    The "copy replacement" narrative goes something like this:
    Let's suppose that we have a Spark Double come into play, that copies a Saksashima the Impostor (not copying anythign), that copies Squire.
    Then we could say that Spark Double turns into a (non-legendary) copy of Sakashima which then turns into a (legendary) copy of Squire with the name Sakashima the Imposter. So the copy effect from Sakashima is overwriting the properties of the card and making it legendary after the Spark Double ability had made the copy of Sakashima non-legendary, and we end up with two legendary creatures both of which have the same name.
    No, it doesn't work this way, because whichever copy effect that you ultimately choose is an unmodifiable 'package deal'. The net effect is that you can use either Spark Double or Sakashima's copy effect, but you can't end up with a mashup of both

    Now you might want to say something like "the +1/+1 counter works the same way," but +1/+1 counters are not like card types: +1/+1 counters don't get copied or overwritten by copy effects. Moreover, at least as far as I can tell, the Spark Double effect that adds +1/+1 doesn't become any sort of text or ability on the card so it doesn't seem like it can get overwritten by effects that change the card. (If Spark Double had been templated with something like << ... except it enters with "This enters the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter if it's a creature. This enters the battlefield with an additional loyalty counter if it's a plainswalker." and it isn’t legendary if that permanent is legendary. >> instead of the way it is now then it would make sense that the copy effects would "overwrite" the +1/+1 counter ability.
    It doesn't matter whether it's counters or Illusion Text or Sakashima, when you have a "special clone" entering the battlefield as a copy of another "special clone" then you have to choose between copy effect X or copy effect Y and ignore ('overwrite') the other one, as per 616.1c.

  19. #19

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    ...
    It doesn't matter whether it's counters or Illusion Text or Sakashima, when you have a "special clone" entering the battlefield as a copy of another "special clone" then you have to choose between copy effect X or copy effect Y and ignore ('overwrite') the other one, as per 616.1c.
    I think you're misreading 616.1c. Replacement effects (including copy effects) can be applied sequentially.

    16.1e Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply
    706.5. An object that enters the battlefield “as a copy”or “that’s a copy”of another object becomes a copy as it enters the battlefield. It doesn’t enter the battlefield, and then become a copy of that permanent. If the text that’s being copied includes any abilities that replace the enters-the-battlefield event (such as “enters the battlefield with”or “as [this] enters the battlefield”abilities), those abilities will take effect. Also, any enters-the-battlefield triggered abilities of the copy will have a chance to trigger.Example:Skyshroud Behemoth reads, “Fading 2 (This creature enters the battlefield with two fade counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from it. If you can’t, sacrifice it.)”and “Skyshroud Behemoth enters the battlefield tapped.”A Clone that enters the battlefield as a copy of a Skyshroud Behemoth will also enter the battlefield tapped with two fade counters on it.
    So the copy effect from the Spark Double happens and then the copy effect from the Sakashima happens.

    Judge chat confirms:
    [11:31] <Rebel11> Suppose that I have a Squire and Sakashima the Impostor (not copying anything) and a Spark Double comes into play under my contro, and I have the Spark Double copy the Sakashima and then have the Sakashima copy copy the Squire. I end up with a legendary copy of Squire that has the name Sakashima the Imposter, right?
    [11:32] <DoubleFried> Right
    [11:32] <Rebel11> DoubleFried: That's a response to my question, right?
    [11:32] <DoubleFried> yeh
    [11:32] <Rebel11> Thanks.

  20. #20

    Re: Cloning Spark Double

    Edit:
    Wait, you're agreeing with me

    Effectively you're choosing to apply the Sakashima Effect and overwriting/ignoring the Spark Double one, right? We agree that your 1/2 Legend named Sakashima doesn't have a +1 counter on it?

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