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Thread: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

  1. #1

    [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    If you read this before I post an "updated first post post" don't worry, I'm just working out some thoughts on paper as it were.

    Three takes - one good, one "in progress", and one bad - all based off the splash color (Bant, Naya, or Abzan)

    Simple Prison Version

    Lands - 25
    4x Prismatic Vista
    4x Ash Barrens
    4x Tranquil Thicket
    4x Secluded Steppe
    4x Plains
    4x Forest
    1x Island

    Walkers/Enchantments - 8
    4x Teferi, Time Raveler
    4x Astral Drift

    Creatures - 6
    4x Eternal Witness
    2x Knight of Autumn

    Spells - 21
    4x Orim's Chant
    4x Unexpectedly Absent
    4x Edge of Autumn
    3x Life from the Loam
    2x Cast Out
    3x Gilded Light
    1x Approach of the Second Sun

    Sideboard
    Back to Basics (maybe main?)
    Wing Shards/Wrath of God?
    Rebuild?
    Wasteland?
    Tormod's Crypt
    Containment Priest
    Gilded Drake (hilarious with Drift and with Absent)
    Gideon of the Trials
    Obstinate Baloth (possibly Siege Rhino, but the "discard into play" effect is pretty relevant)
    more Cast Out/Knights?
    Abeyance/Leylines?

    That's 25 cyclers, tons of mana, a hard lock made of independent pieces that are all really good on their own, and a decent game 1 vs. combo. Can't really ask for more than that, right? The manabase is also super rock solid, and can even fetch up additional basics while under a Moon effect. Approach also gives you a hard win condition if some kind of shenanigans are taking place after the lock is in place where your small duders can't get there eventually.

    Absent is just generally amazing because it can stop your opponent from being able to draw out of a situation, and it can be used say, during your opponents end step on your own Witness if you really need to draw one. Same for Teferi if you need to reset his loyalty or something.

    Teferi solves a lot of problems for this deck, and can even bounce your own guys to re-use their ETB abilities.



    Chalice Version

    I dunno, this should be Naya colors - RGW, it should run Wrenn and Six, Ancient Tomb, Lightning Rift, Mox Diamond and probably Nahiri/Emrakul. I've drawn up a couple lists, but none of them really work, so, that's an issue. It's basically just working to get the numbers of everything right, and that's pretty much only done by lots of playtesting. Also possible you'd want some number of Sweltering Suns in here too. Definitely some manlands, Raging Ravine and Nantuko Monastery come to mind.



    Rock Version

    Yeah, the main problem with this is that control-ish rock is dead in the format. So making a build off of that is.. not a great idea. Probably the direction I'm going to take the deck in Modern, but I honestly don't think it works in Legacy, like, at all.


    Take all of this with a grain of salt, I haven't been playing Legacy lately, so I'm not even really that sure what the meta looks like right now, beyond a bunch of Xerox and some number of Chalice lists + nic fit.
    Last edited by morgan_coke; 05-31-2019 at 12:45 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    I really liked your last draft with 3 Eternal Witness and 3 Knight of Autumn. Do you think this one was just too slow?
    Also, no love for Sarcophagus?

    I'm not too fond of Nahiri (although she can main-phase destroy a permanent every cycle, that's something). Would you consider Decree of Justice?
    TkS a is great idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  3. #3
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    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    4x new Lightning Rift (might not actually exist)
    If it exists, and even if not, we should name this deck "Drifter" in honor of the old RW Rifter deck from Legacy's early days.

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    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    No containment priest combo? It’s pseudo-removal.


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  5. #5

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    These are bad ideas, but ...

    Astral slide always seems slow to me. I'm wondering if there's some kind of Rule of Law prison approach to complement it.

    Also, I'm stuck on the potential of "free-cyclers" - Street Wraith, Edge of Autumn and maybe Vizier of Tumbling Sands combined with something that taps for 2 or more mana. That's probably more of a combo thing than a grindy thing though.

  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Ok, updated the first post to reflect what we actually got in Horizons - which sadly includes no upgrade for Rift. As I note in the first post, I think the best plan right now is to run a full chantlock prison build with 3feri. Bonus points in that it can easily include B2B due to the manabase construction. Turns out Edge of Autumn/Prismatic Vista/Ash Barrens lets you run a three color basics mana-base pretty easily if your splash is just the U in 3feri's mana cost.

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    I WILL test that.
    I'm not sure about Approach of the Second Sunthough. Just seems slow and lackluster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  8. #8

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    I've been enjoying a version that includes Sterling Groves to fetch and protect enchantments like Astral Drift and Cast Out. In this version, Sterling Groves also fetch and protect a Solemnity + Phyrexian Unlife (no more poison counters) pillowfort (just one copy each since Groves can fetch). Since I'm running Solemnity, I throw in a copy of Glacial Chasm (no more age counters) for further protection. As long as I can't take damage (due to Chasm), I might as well be the monarch in perpetuity (extra draw is nice), so I add a couple Palace Jailers that I can slide in and out to exile all my opponent's creatures. I add some Crop Rotations to fetch my Chasm and a Dark Depths while I'm at it (Depths is fun with Solemnity in play). To round the whole thing out, I add some Renegade Ralliers that I can slide in and out to return to the battlefield the lands that I've cycled and the Groves that I've sacced. I might even replace one or two Eternal Witnesses with some Tilling Treefolk that I can slide in and out to get multiple cycling lands (and/or Chasm or Depths) back into my hand from my graveyard.

    And, because I'm an asshole, I add one copy each of Enchanted Evening (fun with Sterling Grove) and Calming Verse (say goodbye to opponent's board).
    Last edited by Grumpollion; 05-31-2019 at 04:24 PM.

  9. #9

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Quote Originally Posted by aedemiel View Post
    I WILL test that.
    I'm not sure about Approach of the Second Sunthough. Just seems slow and lackluster.
    Yeah, I'm not remotely sure about Second Sun either to be honest. It's just there as a way to guarantee you win after you set up the lock. But I'm guessing most folks will just scoop once they can't cast spells or attack for the rest of the game.

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    @morgan_coke I think we can indeed find something better, especially with cycle. I mean, Krosan Tusker isn't an awful body.

    @Grumpollion As much as I love the Solemnity + Phyrexian Unlife lock, it just takes too much place in a deck where we just want as much cycle/ETB creatures as possible. Sterling Grove and Tilling Treefolk could be playable however.
    That being said, Enchanted Evening and Calming Verse are just not Legacy playable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

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    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    4 of these and ZERO Flagstones of Trokair??? Weird.

    I think the mana base should aim to have 3 mana on turn 2.

    I suggest something like this:

    4 Mox Diamond
    1 Dryad Arbor
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Flagstones of Trokair
    10-11 Cycle lands
    3 Duals
    3 Basics
    5 Fetchlands
    1 Wasteland

    With Flagstones, I think Crop Rotation is worth considering as well (1st turn Flagstones or other land, 2nd turn Forest, tap other land, Crop rotate it, find Sol land => 3 mana).

  12. #12
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    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    I must be missing something because teferi seems like garbage. All of his abilities seem weak.

    I also feel like there are way better creatures to be using.

    Finally, Im pretty sure that you atill play 4x astral slide. Without drift or slide the deck is just a flaming hot pile of garbage. Since multiples will stack they arnt dead cards.
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  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    I must be missing something because teferi seems like garbage. All of his abilities seem weak.
    The thing is, Tefeiri stops your opponent counterspells when you're going for the lock. That aside it's true that he seems a bit underwhelming.

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    I also feel like there are way better creatures to be using.
    Better than Eternal Witness? I doubt that. But it's true that there are some cycle-creatures we could play for the kill. I already mentioned Krosan Tusker.

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Finally, Im pretty sure that you atill play 4x astral slide. Without drift or slide the deck is just a flaming hot pile of garbage. Since multiples will stack they arnt dead cards.
    Indeed, Slide being a key card we probably want some more. +2Astral Slide maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  14. #14

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    I must be missing something because teferi seems like garbage. All of his abilities seem weak.

    I also feel like there are way better creatures to be using.

    Finally, Im pretty sure that you atill play 4x astral slide. Without drift or slide the deck is just a flaming hot pile of garbage. Since multiples will stack they arnt dead cards.
    No, you don't play Slide AND Drift. That's a terrible idea. Like, that idea is so bad I can't even really fathom doing it.

    Teferi isn't there for his activated abilities, he's there for his STATIC ability. If you chant them during their upkeep while he's out, they literally cannot ever cast a spell. That's what makes it an actual lock.

    The creatures don't really matter tbh. You get the lock, the game is over.

  15. #15
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    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Quote Originally Posted by aedemiel View Post
    The thing is, Tefeiri stops your opponent counterspells when you're going for the lock. That aside it's true that he seems a bit underwhelming.


    Better than Eternal Witness? I doubt that. But it's true that there are some cycle-creatures we could play for the kill. I already mentioned Krosan Tusker.


    Indeed, Slide being a key card we probably want some more. +2Astral Slide maybe?
    These are good responses. Eternal witnes is great but I imagine that there should be other creatures in addition. 2 knights seems really light. Ill think of some and post them.


    Mangara of Corondor
    Sanctum prelate



    There are creatures listed in the op that are good. My thoughts are that the deck is built like aggro control prison. Combo requires redundancy so I would expect to see drift + slide and chant + abeyance if combo was the goal here.


    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    No, you don't play Slide AND Drift. That's a terrible idea. Like, that idea is so bad I can't even really fathom doing it.

    Teferi isn't there for his activated abilities, he's there for his STATIC ability. If you chant them during their upkeep while he's out, they literally cannot ever cast a spell. That's what makes it an actual lock.

    The creatures don't really matter tbh. You get the lock, the game is over.
    These are bad responses. From what I’m gathering, you want to play a combo deck that locks the opponent out of the game. The issue with that is that it requires tons of cards. So really you are playing a prison deck.

    Lock requirements

    Astral drift
    Eternal witness
    Orim’s chant
    Cycling card
    Way to recycle cycling cards like loam
    Teferi

    This seems like a losing strategy for any legacy deck. So I imagine you plan to play the majority of the game without the lock? If thats the case teferi is a win more card. He is also off color and its not a good idea to complicate your manabase more than it is.

    Also, why do you care about the opponent casting spells? What are they casting that is going to wreck you? If they try to destroy you drift cycle witness and get drift back eot. Additionally, if you have more than 1 drift it kinda doesnt even matter.

    If something happens and your drifts get surgicaled, you lose because you dont want to play slide. Your witnesses anrt gonna get there on beats alone. I know this is gonna flame you and you’ll igone everything I say but you have to hear this. It is clear that you are a novice player because you dont see the value in the kind of redundancy playing slide and drift bring to the table. This deck is practually inoperable without one or the other.
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  16. #16

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Obviously Eternal Witness and Knight of Autumn are the best creatures for the deck but here is a quick list of what could be our “maybeboard”:

    Traditional-way:
    Eternal Dragon: Ramp+CA (because recursion, although it’s slow)+big steak
    Decree of Justice: CA(tokens)+potential Kill

    Actually playable creatures:
    Renegade rallier: not sure if we have that many 2 or less CMC permanents to bring back, lands aside (somewhat of a combo with Edge of Autumn?)
    Containment Priest: Exile opponents creatures.
    Krosan Tusker:Ramp+big steak

    Funny or expensive, but maybe playable:
    Palace Jailer: Exile opponents creatures+Draw engine
    Mangara of Corondor: Exile opponents creatures. Legendary, not as good as Containment Priest.
    Obstinate Baloth: Lifegain+big steak(also Liliana of the Veil destroyer)
    Gilded Drake: Creature stealer but somewhat off-color.
    Siege Rhino: Life-drain+big steak but off-color.

    Enchantments:
    Lightning Rift: Board wipe+Kill but off-color.
    Drake Haven: CA(tokens) but somewhat off-color.

    I’m probably missing some more, this is just a rough list.
    I would like to mention that there is probably a turbofog build with Lull, Haze of Pollen and Angelsong.
    Also, we will need to think about the mana-base at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  17. #17
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    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Having been out of the loop for more than a few years, is the Drift lock better than Isochron Scepter imprinting Chant with Teferi out? Trading Pithing Needle/artifact removal vulnerabilitie for enchantment, creature and graveyard ones doesn't seem great. Less moving parts as well.

    Also, Wasteland looks like a natural fit to protect Teferi from manlands and locking some game down with LftL.

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    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Where's Astral Slide?

  19. #19
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    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Where's Astral Slide?
    The op doesnt like consistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitium View Post
    Having been out of the loop for more than a few years, is the Drift lock better than Isochron Scepter imprinting Chant with Teferi out? Trading Pithing Needle/artifact removal vulnerabilitie for enchantment, creature and graveyard ones doesn't seem great. Less moving parts as well.

    Also, Wasteland looks like a natural fit to protect Teferi from manlands and locking some game down with LftL.
    Yes this is worse as strictly at combo deck than scepter chant. Slide/drift should be played as aggro control or else it is just an bad combo deck.
    .
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  20. #20

    Re: [Deck] Astral Drift vs. Legacy take 1

    I hope I'm not talking to myself and this will be relevant to someone else's interest.

    So, putting the mana-base aside (because this is another subject completely), I think we can indeed drop blue because paying a 3 mana PW only for his static ability is lackluster.
    GW as enough tools to play with redundancy, beating counterspells in the long run. Also it doesn't weaken our mana-base.

    Here is what I was thinking:

    4 Astral Drift
    1 Astral Slide
    2 Sterling Grove
    // Grove is better than E-tutor obviously. Protects our Astrals and Cast Outs and acts as Astrals number 6-7. I do think playing more than 1-2 Astral Slide is bad.

    4 Eternal Witness
    2 Knight of Autumn
    // I'm on the fence here. Maybe a 3/3 split is better.

    4 Orim's Chant
    3 Unexpectedly Absent //Could be a Forsake the Wordly spot.
    //A lock is still extremely plausible. Adding a single Isochron Scepter is possible if you want to go this road.

    4 Edge of Autumn
    3 Life From the Loam
    1 Krosan Tusker// In this Ramp+Kill spot, Eternal Dragon might be just better, depending on our mana-base and if we want evasion.
    //Ramp. Not much to see here.


    2 Containment Priest//Exiling all opponents creatures seems good.
    3 Cast Out
    2 Gilded light
    //Gilded light seems a bit narrow to me. Maybe another Forsake spot?



    That's 35 cards leaving 25 spots for the mana-base. I have to say I really like the idea of 2GSZ+1 Dryad. I also like Tilling Treefolk instead of one Loam.
    Last edited by aedemiel; 06-06-2019 at 07:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

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