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Thread: Bolas's Swamp Thing

  1. #1

    Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Hey folks,

    So first off, I know this is bad, but the brewing bug, this would finally give me the excuse/reason I've needed to invest $200 into a playset of Bitterblossom's that I should've bought back in 2014 when they were $20 a pop.

    The deck is a pile, and it only really works with the Citadel is in play. Situation is very glass cannon without the speed of Belcher. I've resorted to playing some bad cards, hoping against hope. Turn 5 seems to be the, I win turn, but lasting that long unmolested is unlikely. The first spin of this was Cheerios based, and it was lackluster. So I opted for this attempting to add discard.


    3 Bolas's Citadel
    4 Veteran Explorer
    3 Mirri's Guile
    4 Bitterblossom
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    4 Cabal Ritual
    1 Bayou
    2 Swamp
    2 Forest
    3 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Tendrils of Agony
    3 Ancestral Vision
    4 Land Grant
    3 Duress
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Sadistic Sacrament
    3 Beacon of Creation


    Sadistic Sacrament can be cut, I just found it cute and disruptive, with so many dark rits and etc., could be kicked reasonably, a don't-lose-con. The Overgrown Tombs are a budget concession, not buying Bayous (too many watches to obtain.) Tendrils is the best life-gain and actual win-con in the deck to play off of Citadel's engine. Beacon and Blossom are token generators to fuel the Citadel, and chump blockers to survive. Mirri's Guile should be SDT, but too many people were butt hurt and one can't solve Miracles adequately otherwise.

    Just a jumping off point if there are any other mad scientist out there. I want to make this in paper, right now just gold fishing on cockatrice.

    Cheers

  2. #2
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    I haven't started fidgeting with it but also thought a brief moment about the veteran + culling the weak synergy in a citadel list. You may be able to find good ideas in this thread:

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...lorer-Doomsday

  3. #3
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    I'd run a doomsday since you can steal a game if that's on top. I'd also consider xantid swarm since it can keep you safe from interaction and works with culling. (culling on top of deck means combo turn over if you have no guys on board)
    -rob

  4. #4

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Swapping doomsday for sad.sac. is easy. But will there be a five card win with the rest of the deck? I know doomsday exisit, but have no clue how to make it hyper effective. Would love to include it in the deck though for flavor, and winning.

    There's usually a token on in play to use a culling the weak, it can bottle neck, but not often.

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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Isn't Dark Petition a reasonable card with this deck because it adds back BBB? I know it costs 5 life with Citadel but you net a Demonic Tutor plus a Dark Ritual for 5 life.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by ahg113 View Post
    Swapping doomsday for sad.sac. is easy. But will there be a five card win with the rest of the deck? I know doomsday exisit, but have no clue how to make it hyper effective. Would love to include it in the deck though for flavor, and winning.

    There's usually a token on in play to use a culling the weak, it can bottle neck, but not often.
    I think the list has 4 Tendrils right, put four of them on top and that should do, assuming you citadelled into the doomsday in the first place. Or, I think 4 tendrils after each other deal 20 by themselves actually.. I have no idea what an optimal build should look like though..

  7. #7

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    What about an entomb/welder package? There is the new MH goblin that lets you search your deck and bin an artifact. Might be a terrible idea but figure id mention it since it hasn't been talked about yet (in here).
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
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  8. #8

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Yeah, ez answer is obvious, just stack the tendrils on top of each other and that should be game... thx.

    I thought about splashing red for the goblin hijinks. I thought against it for eschewing a third color. I think green does just enough to keep it included.

    But if there is red draw, plus the red ramp that makes sense i'm all game. Mirri's guile and veteran explorer aren't so special, but the beacon of creation turned the tide, gumming up the board and making the sac effect more tolerable for citadel.

    Need a MD before worrying about a SB, but green seemed the better color for that as well.

  9. #9
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    What about an entomb/welder package? There is the new MH goblin that lets you search your deck and bin an artifact. Might be a terrible idea but figure id mention it since it hasn't been talked about yet (in here).
    i think the new MH goblin could definitely consider this card as a tutor option. the main issue is that it would have its highest impact vs control, and there are some other cards competing for the slot.
    -rob

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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    I think the list has 4 Tendrils right, put four of them on top and that should do, assuming you citadelled into the doomsday in the first place. Or, I think 4 tendrils after each other deal 20 by themselves actually.. I have no idea what an optimal build should look like though..
    The only risk there is you need to be at 13 life or higher when you see Doomsday on top, otherwise it doesn't work.

    Cast Doomsday (-3 -> 10 life).
    Resolve Doomsday (lose half -> 5 life)
    Cast Tendrils (-4 -> 1 life)
    Resolve at least 2 Tendrils copies (gain 4 or more -> 5+ life)
    Cast Tendrils #2...

    If you're any lower than 13 you won't have enough life left to cast the first Tendrils.

    That's not an insignificant requirement considering you have to pay life for other spells before you hit Doomsday. You could mitigate that by having a single cheap lifegain spell in the deck (e.g. 1 Children of Korlis), which you could stack on top of the Doomsday pile. That reduces the minimum life requirement from 13 to 7, allowing Doomsday to win you more games.

    Cast Doomsday (-3 -> 4 life)
    Resolve Doomsday (lose half -> 2 life)
    Cast Children of Korlis (-1 -> 1 life)
    Sacrifice Children (gain 6 or more -> 7+ life)
    Cast Tendrils (-4...)

  11. #11
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    You could put a 2nd doomsday in the pile.
    -rob

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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    You could put a 2nd doomsday in the pile.
    If the objective is to lose the game, sure.

    The problem is that Doomsday eats a lot of life! It costs 3 life to cast (Bolas Citadel). Then it eats half your life on resolution. Then you still need 4 life to cast Tendrils. Adding more Doomsdays = worse.

    The cleanest solution is 1cmc lifegain, e.g. Children of Korlis, so you actually have enough life left to cast Tendrils.

    Main Doomsday pile, top to bottom:

    Children of Korlis
    Tendrils of Agony
    Tendrils of Agony
    Tendrils of Agony
    Tendrils of Agony


    If you don't want to read my other wall of text or do the math, just trust me this works while Doomsday into Tendrils = BAD.

    If you don't have 4 Tendrils left, the first 1-2 can be a cheap filler card like Lotus Petal. Still enough Storm.

    You can build other piles to play around hate, e.g. with Cabal Therapy or SB Abrupt Decay.

  13. #13
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Can't you doomsday, children, doomsday, children, etc.? (with 2 doomsday in deck and 1 children?)

    I think it's also infinite damage.

    Bolas Citadel

    Cast doomsday (at 7 life) go to 4,then half to 2.

    Pile can be

    children of korlis
    Doomsday
    Tendrils
    X
    X

    Original doomsday starts new graveyard.

    Cast children, go to 1.

    Sacrifice it. Gain 6.

    Cast new doomsday. Repeat it until storm is high enough, then put tendrils above the doomsday on the pile.

    Am I missing something?
    -rob

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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Oh you mean Doomsday in addition to Children, not instead of (as an alternate solution to the problem).

    Sure, you can loop Doomsday + Children to generate more storm. You should gain enough life off Children to cast Doomsday again.

    Seems unnecessary though. A pile with 2 Tendrils wins most games. Your thing works. It's just a solution to a problem the deck shouldn't have, when the bigger constraint is life to resolve ANY Doomsday pile.

  15. #15
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Dunno why you think it's unnecessary. It's a one card combo off of citadel and it doubles your chances of having it on top.
    -rob

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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    Dunno why you think it's unnecessary. It's a one card combo off of citadel and it doubled your chances of having it in top.
    We're talking past each other. I'm NOT saying the card Doomsday is unnecessary.

    Doomsday pile A: (Children, Doomsday, Tendrils, filler, filler)
    Doomsday pile B: (Children, 0-1cc, 0-1cc, Tendrils, Tendrils)

    I'm saying looping Doomsdays (pile A) is unnecessary when a single pile (pile B) is already enough to win the game. You can do pile A if the opponent happens to be at infinite life, it's just not relevant 99% of the time when 11-15 Tendrils copies are enough.

    Pile A solves a problem the deck shouldn't have most of the time (getting enough Tendrils copies), when there are bigger problems to focus on:
    -getting Bolas's Citadel into play
    -keeping Bolas's Citadel in play
    -finding and resolving Doomsday
    -being at high enough life for Doomsday to be relevant

    Edit: I brought up Children because it addresses a very big problem - having enough life for Doomsday to be relevant. Still, you need to be at 7 or higher when you see Doomsday on top. If you had to cast a lot of cards off Bolas's Citadel to find it, that may not be easy, especially if the opponent turns creatures sideways. Things that might help are other lifegain slots (Aetherflux Reservoir? more Children?) or Personal Tutor to immediately find Doomsday.

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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Hmm maybe I figured out the point of confusion. Others were talking about needing 4 Tendrils to be lethal, which is BS.

    Doomsday -> Children -> 0-1cc card -> 0-1cc card -> Tendrils (5 copies) -> Tendrils (6 copies)

    That's 11 Tendrils (22 damage). It's already a 1-card combo for lethal even if Doomsday is the first card you cast that turn. Tendrils #3 puts it over the top. Hitting enough storm is not an issue. Having enough life to go off and finding the cards are the issue.

  18. #18
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    I think a 4 Doomsday build might be pretty good. I've been trying to figure out how to make doomsday work in nicfit for a long time, and I think this could be a great opportunity.


    With 4 Doomsday, you can cast bolas, hit a ritual and cast a doomsday from hand as well. This gives you some more outs with winning. I also really like green sun for veteran or dryad arbor with culling. I would recommend a tower in that build.

    I'll brew something up later today.
    -rob

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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Yeah 4 Doomsdays is good. See Doomsday more often. Cast from hand to save life. (can win at 4 life)

    I also think Personal Tutor is strong. It puts Doomsday directly on top (to cast right away) or finds Tendrils. It can also find card draw or discard early game. The main drawback is offset by Bolas casting things from the top anyway.

  20. #20
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    needs some work:


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 4 Artifact
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    // 10 Creature
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Children of Korlis
    2 Dryad Arbor
    1 Siege Rhino
    1 Elvish Visionary
    1 The Gitrog Monster

    // 10 Instant
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    2 Crop Rotation

    // 18 Land
    2 Bayou
    3 Swamp
    3 Forest
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Ancient Tomb

    // 1 Planeswalker
    1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

    // 17 Sorcery
    4 Doomsday
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Hymn to Tourach


    it's a little clunky, especially when you can cast doomsday, but have to pass the turn.
    -rob

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