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Thread: Bolas's Swamp Thing

  1. #21
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    What about blue cards? If you're trying to win with Doomsday without Bolas (I assume that's when you "pass the turn"), cantrips help a lot.


    //Spells: 31
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Personal Tutor
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Doomsday
    3 Tendrils of Agony

    //Creatures: 2
    2 Children of Korlis

    //Artifacts: 10
    4 Lotus Petal
    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    //Lands: 17
    2 Ancient Tomb
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Bayou
    3 Swamp


    I guess that just looks like a worse version of ANT.

  2. #22
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    I'll give it another go later when I have a chance, but I think less doomsday, more dark petition and maybe more siege rhinonin there.

    If I play blue it would be more for Leovold and jace, and less for brainstorm Ponder. :)



    // 60 Maindeck
    // 4 Artifact
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    // 10 Creature
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Children of Korlis
    2 Dryad Arbor
    3 Siege Rhino

    // 9 Instant
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    1 Crop Rotation

    // 18 Land
    2 Bayou
    3 Swamp
    3 Forest
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains

    // 2 Planeswalker
    1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
    1 Karn, the Great Creator

    // 16 Sorcery
    1 Doomsday
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Dark Petition
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    Last edited by mistercakes; 06-09-2019 at 08:14 AM.
    -rob

  3. #23
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Looks fun.

    What do you do with all that Dark Ritual / Culling the Weak mana if you don't have Bolas in hand? You can ramp out Ob Nix, but if you don't get lucky with draws and don't have cantrips or tutors to find them then what do you do? Dark Petition looks like a big upgrade to the first list to give you some value for that mana.

  4. #24

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    have anyone consider playing it with Ral, storm conduit, noxious revival, weather the storm and aetherflux reservoir?

    I've been trying these at vintage, it was fun thinking is it possible to move onto legacy.
    pushing the graveyard with brainstorm, ponder, preordain, duress, thoughtseize, hymn, then cabal rituals/ or lotus bloom for the BBB

  5. #25

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    only 4 fetch land? with 4 bolas's citadel and 4 green sun's zenith, so if you managed to have bolas's citadel in play, any of these ( 3 bolas's citadel/ 4 green sun's zenith/ lands) on top of your library (that s almost 1/3 of your remain deck), 1/3 chance of your storm count would stop. Another things I noticed: is it possible for you get threshold with cabal ritual at the first few turn? only 4 fetches, cabal therapy would be exile, maybe 1-2 veteran explorer. There isnt enough cantrip to fill the graveyard.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I'll give it another go later when I have a chance, but I think less doomsday, more dark petition and maybe more siege rhinonin there.

    If I play blue it would be more for Leovold and jace, and less for brainstorm Ponder. :)



    // 60 Maindeck
    // 4 Artifact
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    // 10 Creature
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Children of Korlis
    2 Dryad Arbor
    3 Siege Rhino

    // 9 Instant
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    1 Crop Rotation

    // 18 Land
    2 Bayou
    3 Swamp
    3 Forest
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains

    // 2 Planeswalker
    1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
    1 Karn, the Great Creator

    // 16 Sorcery
    1 Doomsday
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Dark Petition
    2 Hymn to Tourach

  6. #26

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    just to explore ideas and direction

    not only you can build around to tendrill style, also you could build into artifact theme. Maybe with loads of artifacts like lotus petal, mox opal, mishra's bauble, urza's bauble....etc. Having 15+ artifacts in your graveyard, head for the new card from Modern Horizon: Mirrodin Besieged, looter to win (or target opponent lost the game)

  7. #27
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    It's still just a value list and prob can even cut 2 citadel for 2 more regular nicfit cards. Bahra played with yawgmoth's and maybe it's great here too.

    The deck can go in many ways, I was just exploring it with the culling the weak approach. The difficult part in goldfishing was not being able to have the artifact in hand.

    In old urza's block, Cathodian was played to hardcast bargain. (turn 1 rit Cathodian, turn 2 tower and cast bargain.

    Maybe there's something similar here available.

    The deck ideally needs another way to find citadel, it could be the cantrips as mentioned before but the deck would need to be bug nicfit. I haven't spent time with those lists for quite some time now. Could be interesting, but again the cantrip decks that want to combo are just much better than this.
    -rob

  8. #28
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    In old urza's block, Cathodian was played to hardcast bargain. (turn 1 rit Cathodian, turn 2 tower and cast bargain.
    In Urza's/Masques Standard (I played Bargain then), if the Academy Rector plan failed, you could hardcast bargain easily with a mix of Dark Rituals, Grim Monoliths, and lands like Peat Bog (before Masques you had Sol Lands in Standard too)! There was also Enlightened Tutor or Vampiric Tutor to find Rector or Bargain. The combination of fast mana and tutors is what made it consistent, even without cantrips.

    If you want to play this without blue cantrips, I think you need tutors at least. You can't rely on naturally drawing the Citadel or other pieces.

    Luckily in black there are cards like Entomb (if you have a way to play it from the graveyard, like Goblin Welder or Trash for Treasure) and Diabolic Intent (if you play a creature-heavy sacrifice-themed build). You could also splash white for Enlightened Tutor.

    If you're adding 4 Doomsday and 8 Rituals to the deck and playing less than 20 lands, it's not really Nic Fit anymore, you've already compromised the Nic Fit strategy to accomodate the combo, so you might as well play more combo enablers.

  9. #29

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Took the Mistercake's list (Bolas's Walker Critters) and made a few changes. Primarily, adding in a couple different creatures, and Diabolic Intent.

    From my goldfishing, I went from turn 5 kills to turn 3 kills, still, unmolested fantasy land, but it feels a bit better. Waiting till turn 5 felt way too long.

    // Legacy - Bolas's Walker Critters

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 4 Artifact
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    // 10 Creature
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Children of Korlis
    1 Viridian Emissary
    2 Thragtusk
    2 Siege Rhino

    // 9 Instant
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    1 Crop Rotation

    // 18 Land
    2 Bayou
    3 Swamp
    3 Forest
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains

    // 2 Planeswalker
    1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
    1 Karn, the Great Creator

    // 17 Sorcery
    1 Doomsday
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Dark Petition
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Diabolic Intent


    Feel like adding a few more creatures, Emissary, Rhino, or Tusk, would make more sense than the planeswalkers, but those guys do so much more work when hitting the field.

    If this is going to go blue, the imagination factor drops way down. Plus, it just becomes a much worse version of existing decks with an artifact instead of Ad Nauseam or Past in Flames.

  10. #30

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Add back at least 1 Dryad Arbor. It's a great out with Crop Rotation when a body is needed. Undervalued when cut originally.

  11. #31
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    good find on diabolic intent, this is feeling more like a deck now:


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 4 Artifact
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    // 10 Creature
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Children of Korlis
    2 Dryad Arbor
    1 Siege Rhino
    2 Thragtusk

    // 9 Instant
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    1 Crop Rotation

    // 18 Land
    2 Bayou
    3 Swamp
    3 Forest
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains

    // 2 Planeswalker
    2 Ob Nixilis Reignited

    // 17 Sorcery
    1 Doomsday
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Dark Petition
    4 Diabolic Intent


    lands are not perfect, and i did cut the hymn. not sure if viridian emissary is necessary. i think some kind of other 2 drop might be better here (but should still remain a GSZ target)

    i think ob is strictly better than karn here, so i'd rather run 2. A) he can kill your veteran's mid combo, he draws a card in case your top card is another land, and he can function as a win condition vs control decks (plus kill threats).

    edit (i just put the 2nd arbor over the viridian, it's a lot better with GSZ on top of deck)
    -rob

  12. #32
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Sorry this isn't on topic, I know you're trying to do a Nic Fit hybrid here, but I can't help but think there is a more powerful avenue with white than Children of Korliss. Call me fucking crazy if you want, but wouldn't it be pretty hot to play Enlightened Tutor and Platinum Emperion and Platinum Angel? ETutor gets Citadel and the other pieces. As long as you have 8-9 life both of them allow you to win the same turn. ETutor even conveniently puts the artifacts on top of your library. Not saying it's better than Children of Korliss, but Tainted Sigil is also tutorable with Enlightened Tutor.

    EDIT: also Worldly Tutor, another cheap tutor that goes perfectly with Citadel.
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  13. #33
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Call me fucking crazy if you want, but wouldn't it be pretty hot to play Enlightened Tutor and Platinum Emperion and Platinum Angel?
    You're crazy. It would be hot garbage.

    Platinum Emperion does not let you pay life. Therefore it means you spent 8 life and now can't cast spells for the rest of the game. Cool.
    Platinum Angel does let you pay life, but you still can't pay more life than you have so you can't go below 0. Does that buy you more freedom to cast spells? Not if you spent 7 life to cast it and a card to tutor for it instead of something else.

    If you go the ETutor route, the singleton artifact you want to Tutor for is probably Aetherflux Reservoir, which effectively lets you play unlimited spells as long as you can keep lands off the top (that's where cantrips help).

    With Worldly Tutor, you could find lifegain creatures (Kitchen Finks, Thragtusk, Children of Korlis) or use Treasure Mage to find Citadel. Kitchen Finks might be really strong here, as sacrifice fodder and a chump blocker.

    Worldly Tutor has some advantages over GSZ (instant speed, finds nongreen cards like Children, not dead with Citadel). But GSZ has other advantages (ramp, mana sink for rituals, puts threats into play).

  14. #34
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    E tutor is interesting. Can try it out. Space is tight.
    -rob

  15. #35
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Not saying it's better than Children of Korliss, but Tainted Sigil is also tutorable with Enlightened Tutor.

    EDIT: also Worldly Tutor, another cheap tutor that goes perfectly with Citadel.
    It depends what your goal is. For a Doomsday pile, Children is miles better than Tainted Sigil because the lower CMC reduces the life threshold you need to be able to win with Doomsday. Tainted Sigil pushes that life requirement unnecessarily higher. Doomsday is the main reason to play Children.

    For incidental lifegain, without Doomsday combo, you could ETutor into Tainted Sigil or you could Worldly Tutor into Children. This build seems to care about creatures more than artifacts.

  16. #36
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    I was thinking that Emperion/Angel solves that problem by being both a creature and an artifact. I now see (duh, RTFC) that you have to pay life to activate Citadel. Emperion is a literal non-bo with the card. Angel means you won't lose even at 0 life, but you have to have 7 life to spend to get there and then you don't have life to spend to get the free spells. Sorry for the uninformed comment.

    I still think Tainted Sigil has some potential as a 5th Children, especially if it can be tutored.

    The real synergy I wanted to mention was the Tutor cycle that puts a combo piece on top of your library, right where you want it for Citadel. Both cost only 1 mana, both do what you want. Doomsday does it all in one shot but has it's own drawbacks to work around.
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  17. #37
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Sorry for the uninformed comment.

    I still think Tainted Sigil has some potential as a 5th Children, especially if it can be tutored.

    The real synergy I wanted to mention was the Tutor cycle that puts a combo piece on top of your library, right where you want it for Citadel. Both cost only 1 mana, both do what you want. Doomsday does it all in one shot but has it's own drawbacks to work around.
    No offense intended, but you did say to call you crazy :p.

    Yeah that tutor cycle is very powerful with Citadel. I've suggested Personal Tutor (for Doomsday, Tendrils, etc) and Enlightened Tutor a couple times now. Putting it to the top of your deck to immediately cast is a strong interaction.

    Tainted Sigil has potential, but in mistercakes deck Worldly Tutor seems like a better 5th Children. It still costs 1 less life to tutor for Children and cast Children than to cast Tainted Sigil (2 less life if you have to tutor for Sigil). Each life point matters for sustaining the combo and not randomly dying to Lightning Bolt.

    Sigil seems better in a Mardu Welder build (Goblin Welder, Entomb, Enlightened Tutor, Burning Wish, Trash for Treasure, Doomsday, Bolas's Citadel, Mox Opal etc.), where the artifact typing is much more relevant and there's no green for creature tutors.

  18. #38
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 4 Artifact
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    // 12 Creature
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Children of Korlis
    2 Dryad Arbor
    1 Siege Rhino
    3 Thragtusk
    1 Erebos, God of the Dead

    // 9 Instant
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    1 Crop Rotation

    // 18 Land
    2 Bayou
    3 Swamp
    3 Forest
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    2 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains

    // 17 Sorcery
    1 Doomsday
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Dark Petition
    4 Diabolic Intent


    i think that erebos is worth a mention in here. grey merchant too, but i'm not sure if he fits that well. for 1B you can draw a card, the deck gets the mana pretty easily, especially with hitting ritual effects off of the top of the deck.
    -rob

  19. #39
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    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Too bad Erebos can't be found with GSZ. As a 1-of do you think he comes up often enough to matter? He could be a good back-up plan if you have less mana but a tutor effect.

    What about Kitchen Finks (life) or Viridian Emissary (ramp) to have more low cost fodder for Therapy and Diabolic Intent?

    Also what about more fetches to have more thinning and shuffle effects to help the combo keep going?


    //Engine: 4
    4 Bolas's Citadel

    //Creatures: 11
    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Viridian Emissary
    2 Kitchen Finks
    1 Children of Korlis
    1 Siege Rhino
    1 Thragtusk

    //Spells: 25
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Diabolic Intent
    3 Doomsday
    2 Tendrils of Agony

    //Lands: 20
    2 Dryad Arbor
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Bayou
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Prismatic Vista
    4 Forest
    3 Swamp
    1 Plains

  20. #40

    Re: Bolas's Swamp Thing

    Kitchen finks is a good add. If we're running six black tutors and 4 green ones, i'm confidant 1-of's are acceptable granted the impact is evident.

    I'm wondering about the green tutors, does it make sense to mix GSZ and W.Tutor's? 2-2 split, as both shine pre-post citadel for different reasons. (Also, i'm unsure how GSZ acts as a block when on top of the library, cast and just fail to find, shuffle effect for 1 life, +1 storm.)

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