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Thread: The London Mulligan

  1. #1
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    The London Mulligan

    It was confirmed that the London Mulligan is going to be implemented in legacy.
    Source: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...pnGL5w8Ba3BVgQ

    What are your thoughts? I'm afraid it will kill fast combo decks because it's going to be easier to search for hate.
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco Pires View Post
    It was confirmed that the London Mulligan is going to be implemented in legacy.
    Source: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...pnGL5w8Ba3BVgQ

    What are your thoughts? I'm afraid it will kill fast combo decks because it's going to be easier to search for hate.
    Also works the other way, making it easier for combo decks to find their combo.
    And as this rule also helps pre-board, I'd say this might benefit combo more than non-combo.

    But regardless of whether this helps an archetype, I think this is a very good rule.
    It reduces the worst part of MtG: the games where to just mull into a loss.
    To me, that takes so much fun out of the game.

    This rule will help tremendously in making post-mulligan games better.
    You can still mull and get hopeless cards only, but the chances are much better to draw into playable stuff.
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    Well, it's a little later than some of us thought, but I think it is good for the game overall.

    I don't think it is going to change the metagame paradigm all that much. Some all-in Chalice decks likely do better, which means some mid-range decks that can cope with that likely do better, and fast combo is likely a little better too. Even as someone who doesn't like combo decks, I don't see this shift as something negative for the format. Just means it's something to prepare for.

    Also, this is likely what many people have been dreaming of, because I do see it partly as an actual stealth nerf to Cantrips.
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  4. #4

    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco Pires View Post
    It was confirmed that the London Mulligan is going to be implemented in legacy.
    Source: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...pnGL5w8Ba3BVgQ

    What are your thoughts? I'm afraid it will kill fast combo decks because it's going to be easier to search for hate.
    I think it'll do the opposite.
    The Night HE Came Home.

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    Re: The London Mulligan

    I think, still think since I heard of this mulligan version, that it will make chalice decks better, which will make fair non-blue decks better, which will make combo and fair blue decks better, going full circle thus increasing the amount of decks that can be played competitively. If show and tell becomes too good, I doubt it, some card may be banned. Hopefully not griselbrand, because that ruins some archetypes of decks, otoh griselbrand seems like overly good so maybe that'd be ok.

    And agree that reducing the amount of non-games is great in itself.

    Important quote about their evaluation of Legacy through MTGO:

    One characteristic of Legacy is that there are very efficient one-for-one answers to most threats, which has the effect of making raw card quantity important. That in turn means choosing to mulligan aggressively to a particular card or combo is more of a cost, and so we weren't seeing that strategy be very successful.

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    Re: The London Mulligan

    For reference, the wording of the comp rules change:

    103.4. Each player draws a number of cards equal to their starting hand size, which is normally seven. (Some effects can modify a player's starting hand size.) A player who is dissatisfied with their initial hand may take a mulligan. First, the starting player declares whether they will take a mulligan. Then each other player in turn order does the same. Once each player has made a declaration, all players who decided to take mulligans do so at the same time. To take a mulligan, a player shuffles the cards in their hand back into their library, draws a new hand of cards equal to their starting hand size, then puts a number of those cards equal to the number of times that player has taken a mulligan on the bottom of their library in any order. Once a player chooses not to take a mulligan, the remaining cards become that player's opening hand, and that player may not take any further mulligans. This process is then repeated until no player takes a mulligan. A player can take mulligans until their opening hand would be zero cards.
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  7. #7

    Re: The London Mulligan

    Hmmmm... a bit concerned about the effect this will have on Legacy but I guess Wizards have the data. At least there should be less non-games though feels like it will help combo overall.

  8. #8

    Re: The London Mulligan

    I highly doubt they know how it'll affect Legacy. Their reasoning is anecdotal, at best. I mean, they literally just printed Timetwister and are going forward with this rule change. Who knows what the hell will happen.
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    this really benefits decks (all decks) in terms of shaving a land off, and helps the decks that already are a bit low in lands.
    -rob

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    Re: The London Mulligan

    While I think it will be great for combo players I also realize they just infused a pile of new cards into eternal formats with Modern Horizons. We have effectively 4 more copies of Force of Will and Force of Vigor available, along with the pre-existing Leylines, that all allow you to interact with degenerate things even while on the play.

    Things still need to shake out but I feel that overall it allows broken things to happen a little more consistently while also giving more tools to fight those same broken things. I think it will be a net-gain, especially in terms of how powerful the respective formats will feel (mostly Modern and Legacy, Vintage already seems to be pretty degenerate.)
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    Time to sleeve up All Spells again.

    I guess I should be happy.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  12. #12

    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco Pires View Post
    It was confirmed that the London Mulligan is going to be implemented in legacy.
    Source: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...pnGL5w8Ba3BVgQ

    What are your thoughts? I'm afraid it will kill fast combo decks because it's going to be easier to search for hate.
    Pretty much any deck with a hard counter in their sideboard gets way better odds.

    But, at the same time if you DONT have the hard counter, the odds of the combo deck go up a ton since they can find their stuff better.

  13. #13

    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco Pires View Post
    It was confirmed that the London Mulligan is going to be implemented in legacy.
    Source: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...pnGL5w8Ba3BVgQ

    What are your thoughts? I'm afraid it will kill fast combo decks because it's going to be easier to search for hate.
    Not just legacy but all competitive formats!

    I'm not sure I mind it at all but I do mind having to wait so long. Kinda like how I'm mad that I have to wait two weeks to play Modern because even when I own the reprints. I already sleeved up the Carrion Feeders, WotC!

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    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by Bithlord View Post
    Pretty much any deck with a hard counter in their sideboard gets way better odds.

    But, at the same time if you DONT have the hard counter, the odds of the combo deck go up a ton since they can find their stuff better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  15. #15
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    I think, still think since I heard of this mulligan version, that it will make chalice decks better, which will make fair non-blue decks better, which will make combo and fair blue decks better, going full circle thus increasing the amount of decks that can be played competitively. If show and tell becomes too good, I doubt it, some card may be banned. Hopefully not griselbrand, because that ruins some archetypes of decks, otoh griselbrand seems like overly good so maybe that'd be ok.

    And agree that reducing the amount of non-games is great in itself.

    Important quote about their evaluation of Legacy through MTGO:
    What exactly does Griselbrand add to the game? I think of all of the games he's resolved against me o may have had 1 interesting game
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  16. #16

    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    What exactly does Griselbrand add to the game? I think of all of the games he's resolved against me o may have had 1 interesting game
    The only time Grisselbrand was exciting was when I forgot he had lifelink and for a brief moment I thought my opponent killed himself paying the 7.

  17. #17
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    The only time Grisselbrand was exciting was when I forgot he had lifelink and for a brief moment I thought my opponent killed himself paying the 7.
    Nah, got you beat, it was exciting when I won a game vs. Reaimator after my opponent got him into play, going to 4, and then swings in with the Iona that was locking me out. See, I had a Mirran Crusader in play.

    I ended up winning game 3 on a mull to 3 as well, Plains, Vial, Spirit o' da' Lab. First draw was StP. Good times.
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  18. #18

    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Nah
    As the expert on my emotions I have to disagree with you on what I was feeling at the time.

  19. #19
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    As the expert on my emotions I have to disagree with you on what I was feeling at the time.
    Incorrect, I am indeed a better authority on what you are feeling at any given time,
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    I think the only time Griselbrand is ever interesting is when the opponent is actually a moron and just kills themselves by drawing too many cards and but realizing they are dead on board
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

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