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Thread: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

  1. #21

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post
    Yep. In reality. Most of us Vintage players either left magic altogether or moved over to legacy once Vintage cards became too pricy to be things we should be playing games with. It wasn't a big loss, there are only a handful of cards that are allowed in Vintage but banned in Legacy. Like your link shows, a handful of people stuck around with Vintage and later Old School, but the rest of us that still play Magic sold out of Vintage and now play Legacy.

    Once legacy dies, some will move on to Modern (that's probably what Wizards wants) and others will leave Magic altogether. But as for the tens of thousands of Magic cards/strategies and synergies that only exist in Legacy and will never see print into Modern, these cards and decks will be left behind in the dustbin of history.

    I dabble with Modern as well. Legacy is A LOT more fun than Modern. And I would be very sad to see it die only because Legacy players cared more about how much someone is willing to spend on expensive pieces of cardboard rather than actually having an accessible format that is welcoming to newcomers.

  2. #22
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    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Nedleeds gets banned, forum activity plummets. Not much more to say. He was extremely active in brewing non-blue decks, posting in the pimp thread, and keeping alive the great flame wars of old.

    #MakeTheSourceGreatAgain

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  3. #23
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    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    THat's fine, there's also barely any power to support the format anyway. Besides, I've seen 100+ oldschool events regularly here in Europe. It is bigger than vintage was in the end of it's era.
    The thing about allowing proxies was to keep the playerbase large so that people can actually play. Saying that proxying to help build the playerbase is a problem and then saying it's ok for the playerbase to be tiny doesn't follow. How many people do you know that can play Old School daily? Or even weekly? Against more than 1 other person?

  4. #24

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Nedleeds gets banned, forum activity plummets. Not much more to say. He was extremely active in brewing non-blue decks, posting in the pimp thread, and keeping alive the great flame wars of old.

    #MakeTheSourceGreatAgain

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    Just free everyone, general amnesty. I'd be excited for more nourishing lich.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  5. #25

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Just free everyone, general amnesty. I'd be excited for more nourishing lich.
    I love this idea.

    A one time global unbanning of all previous mtgthesource members with over 25 posts (to screen out any spam accounts) would be nice. I'm sure any people permabanned for taking part in a flame war have matured in the past 5-15 years or so.

    The mods should also send an automated email to all the unbanned accounts letting them know they are no longer banned (if possible).

  6. #26
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    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    I've thought for a long time that Wizards should license the rights for making "official" proxies. Let Star City or CF pay for the right to make tourney legal proxies so people can play in sanctioned events. It makes Wotc some cash and let's stores sell cards for a few bucks and more people play. What could go wrong...?

    #FreeNedleeds
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  7. #27

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Wasn’t Legacy supposed to die in like 2009?
    The Night HE Came Home.

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    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    The Source might die, but not Legacy. Legacy players never say die!





    #freenedleeds

    The Pimp thread could use more love.

  9. #29

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Wasn’t Legacy supposed to die in like 2009?
    2009 was the beginning of its end when Goyf was the first staple card that wasn't some odd special printing like Loyal Retainers to reach +30 Euro. Legacy's fate was sealed once people actually started to pay these prices despite being due to obvious manipulative practices (I remember V.Clique to reach 30+ from 7-8 within a few hours in 2011 after a buyout). The people truly responsible for Legacy's future death are going to be the ones who paid those prices and thereby brought in all the hoarders and speculators to ruin the format.

    Also on the forum ban debate: I'm surprised that there are actually any bans here since I thought this was one of the most liberal online discussion boards I've been part of.

  10. #30

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by the Thin White Duke View Post
    I've thought for a long time that Wizards should license the rights for making "official" proxies. Let Star City or CF pay for the right to make tourney legal proxies so people can play in sanctioned events. It makes Wotc some cash and let's stores sell cards for a few bucks and more people play. What could go wrong...?

    #FreeNedleeds
    Interesting notion, have a "tournament only" print run of cards with special backs or obvious "TOURNAMENT ONLY PROXY" stamps on them? The stated intention being "these allow you to play with expensive cards in a limited, select number of tournaments without risking damage".

    Allow the tournament organizer to print the cards, that way Wizards isn't printing them and therefore isn't running afoul of its Reserve List policy? How's that for a loophole?

  11. #31
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    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Unfortunately I think legacy may be too far gone at this point price wise to ever fully recover. I hope I'm wrong though

    #freenedleeds
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  12. #32

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    i posted this more than a year ago; still applies right now:

    "If this is really all about playing in a sanctioned, non-proxy tournament, then why can't you "rent" a card for a single event?
    This would still "move" cards in a $ positive direction for sellers and players can still attend that big event.

    In MTGO, you don't own the cards but you own a digital license to the image or some such nonsense.
    If it works for MTGO, then WOTC can "lease" me the physical card, too.

    WOTC can monetize this now by doing something similar with any licensed card that is ONLY useable for one event.
    It CAN even just be a blank card that says "UNDERGROUND SEA" in block letters.
    It doesn't violate the RL but still allows players to play in a sanctioned, non-proxy tournament."

  13. #33

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    2009 was the beginning of its end when Goyf was the first staple card that wasn't some odd special printing like Loyal Retainers to reach +30 Euro. Legacy's fate was sealed once people actually started to pay these prices despite being due to obvious manipulative practices (I remember V.Clique to reach 30+ from 7-8 within a few hours in 2011 after a buyout). The people truly responsible for Legacy's future death are going to be the ones who paid those prices and thereby brought in all the hoarders and speculators to ruin the format.

    Also on the forum ban debate: I'm surprised that there are actually any bans here since I thought this was one of the most liberal online discussion boards I've been part of.
    By that logic, wouldn't the "death" of Legacy be attributed to Star City Games? None of that would be possible without the Open Series that sucked a ridiculous numbers of new players in and gave Legacy more attention than it ever had. People then bought into the format, which eventually caused speculators to buy in and make a profit.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  14. #34

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    i posted this more than a year ago; still applies right now:

    "If this is really all about playing in a sanctioned, non-proxy tournament, then why can't you "rent" a card for a single event?
    This would still "move" cards in a $ positive direction for sellers and players can still attend that big event.

    In MTGO, you don't own the cards but you own a digital license to the image or some such nonsense.
    If it works for MTGO, then WOTC can "lease" me the physical card, too.

    WOTC can monetize this now by doing something similar with any licensed card that is ONLY useable for one event.
    It CAN even just be a blank card that says "UNDERGROUND SEA" in block letters.
    It doesn't violate the RL but still allows players to play in a sanctioned, non-proxy tournament."
    Problem with that is the WOTC has a very reduced degree of interest in formats other than standard and limited. They embarked into modern as a way to sell more standard, not because they had any fuzzy feelings about eternal formats. They support eternal formats to the extent that they can say 'sure kid, buy that booster box, after standard you can even use it on format z'.

  15. #35

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    Problem with that is the WOTC has a very reduced degree of interest in formats other than standard and limited. They embarked into modern as a way to sell more standard, not because they had any fuzzy feelings about eternal formats. They support eternal formats to the extent that they can say 'sure kid, buy that booster box, after standard you can even use it on format z'.
    On the other hand they still make a yearly Commander set, and just released modern horizons after years of X master sets. Wizards supports Eternal and non-rotating formats, they just do it with products that can sell. Hard to sell a proxy when they could just revoke the reserve list and sell a reprint.

  16. #36

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    On the other hand they still make a yearly Commander set, and just released modern horizons after years of X master sets. Wizards supports Eternal and non-rotating formats, they just do it with products that can sell. Hard to sell a proxy when they could just revoke the reserve list and sell a reprint.
    Commander was a huge boon for Wizards, and is responsible for demand on all kinds of bizarre old cards.

    Note: I'm not contradicting anything you said, I just feel like taking a step back and realizing, holy crap was EDH a boon for Wizards. I probably know as many commander-only players as I do limited/ standard players.

  17. #37

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Begle1 View Post
    Commander was a huge boon for Wizards, and is responsible for demand on all kinds of bizarre old cards.

    Note: I'm not contradicting anything you said, I just feel like taking a step back and realizing, holy crap was EDH a boon for Wizards. I probably know as many commander-only players as I do limited/ standard players.
    So...you’re telling me HasBro focuses on their popular formats/games?
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  18. #38

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    So...you’re telling me HasBro focuses on their popular formats/games?
    Fucked up if true.

  19. #39

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    I occasionally play at a London community tournament that allows proxies, but they have to just be printed out paper in front of a basic land or token or whatever. It was quite useful in the early days when my only substantial legacy possession was a playset of FoW as it allowed me to play my deck a bunch and know that I enjoyed the format and would be worth buying volcanic islands.

    Never been to a shop-organised event that allowed them though, but I'd be fine with it even though I have spent the money myself, I prefer to just see more people playing.

    All this said though, there are still tons of legacy players that show up to every GP just to play in a bunch of side events. It's not the format isn't popular, just that good-sized events seem to be few and far between.

  20. #40

    Re: Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Begle1 View Post
    Interesting notion, have a "tournament only" print run of cards with special backs or obvious "TOURNAMENT ONLY PROXY" stamps on them? The stated intention being "these allow you to play with expensive cards in a limited, select number of tournaments without risking damage".

    Allow the tournament organizer to print the cards, that way Wizards isn't printing them and therefore isn't running afoul of its Reserve List policy? How's that for a loophole?
    In pipe dream land, WotC would run a Legacy premiere series where players submit decklists ahead of time and get a newly printed copy of their deck with a different (but similar) card back. The deck is not legal for anything other than the one tournament. Then, the player gets to keep the printed deck.

    Suddenly, I can play a $5,000 deck in a tournament for, maybe, $100 or $150 and get to keep the deck in proxy form.

    I'd be down with that. Certainly would beat playing Burn and/or manaless dredge which are my current decks, due purely to price.

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