Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies in order to prevent legacy’s death?

[Captain Hammer]

This forum used to be the premier source for all legacy discussion. Magic is more popular than ever, but this site and even the legacy reddit see barely any activity. Is there some other legacy forum people are posting at or is it all deck specific discords now? Or is legacy just dying altogether, thanks to the reserve list.

This happened with vintage. As the prices of vintage staples shot up, first, the premier vintage forum (themanadrain) died and soon after the format as a whole died.

Atleast locally, legacy has seen an uptick thanks to the MPC proxies and the Chinese fakes that finally made legacy accessible (none of us bat an eye about people using fake cards, we are just happy to have more players). Is that not the case everywhere?

Discords are kind of useless in terms of acting as long term repositories of information. And while useful to people that only play one or two decks, they are useless for developing new decks or discussing the format as a whole. The same can be said about reddit and reddit is also much less organized than this. From what I have seen, discords dont see much activity either.

I think the problem is deeper, and it’s the reserve list that is making legacy increasingly inaccessible and slowly killing it. If so, should other local legacy communities be more open to and encouraging of people playing with MPC cards that are clearly not even trying to pass for real cards, just to encourage more players in this wonderful format.

MPC doesnt allow the use of any copyrighted images, so they dont break any laws and there is no way anyone will think the cards are genuine. But all of us locally are totally fine with people using them since this is the only way for legacy to go forwards as long as the reserve list is a thing...

https://www.makeplayingcards.com/des...lank-card.html

Some great proxy designs for MPC... https://www.reddit.com/r/mpcproxies/top?t=all

As you can see from my post history, I mingle with and have dozens of different legacy decks built. My local legacy playgroup being okay with players that use MPC cards that arent even trying to be passed off as real magic cards is the reason why. Its so liberating for everyone to not have to worry about reserve list prices, and being stuck with just one or two decks and just being able to play whatever decks we want.

Eventhough I have playsets of most of the dual lands and legacy staples, it doesnt make sense to play with them now that they are worth thousands of dollars. The cards are safely stored away and I use MPC versions of any card thats worth over a $50. Most everyone in my playgroup does the same now.

[lavafrogg]

This forum used to be the premier source for all legacy discussion. Magic is more popular than ever, but this site and even the legacy reddit see barely any activity. Is there some other legacy forum people are posting at or is it all deck specific discords now? Or is legacy just dying altogether, subsumed by Modern.

Atleast locally, legacy has seen an uptick thanks to the MPC proxies and the Chinese fakes that finally made legacy accessible (none of us bat an eye about people using fake cards, we are just happy to have more players). Is that not the case everywhere?

Discords are kind of useless in terms of acting as long term repositories of information. And while useful to people that only play one or two decks, they are useless for developing new decks or discussing the format as a whole. The same can be said about reddit and reddit is also much less organized than this.

Assuming that legacy is still alive and kicking, I would prefer that this forum finds a way to thrive again but what would that take? Do newer legacy players and people on reddit even know that it exists? Should people talk about this place more at their local card shops?

I don't like the Discord channels, I find that they get a little echo-chamber-y and it is hard to actually move forward. One of the reasons I love this format is that people from all decks will hop into a thread and give opinions and feedback.

Unfortunately, "the kids these days" love their discords as the voice chat makes gaming ie fortnite, LoL, Overwatch etc... the place to chat and discuss things.

[Megadeus]

Legacy has died down here despite the GP in December. Sucks to see. Hopefully when we get closer there maybe will be some demand for the format

[Poron]

Legacy has died down here despite the GP in December. Sucks to see. Hopefully when we get closer there maybe will be some demand for the format

totally agree. I went to standard where it is possible to play a quasi miracle control deck with Settle the Wreckage as Terminus and many good Pws, Azcanta and so on..

that allows you to play much more and normally at a cheaper price

[Dice_Box]

You are not the first to notice, but yea, it sucks.

[Captain Hammer]

You are not the first to notice, but yea, it sucks.

I am curious if it is a sign of legacy as a whole dying as a result of the reserve list. Thats what happened to Vintage. First themanadrain forum died and then so did Vintage as a whole.

But legacy has a shiton of cards not legal in modern, where as vintage only has a few cards that are not legal in legacy. With magic being more popular than ever, surely lots of people are discovering old cards only legal in legacy that synergize with their favorite strategy. And legacy isnt that degenrate. Midrange decks and decks of all archeatypes are viable in legacy.

So I have to imagine its mainly the reserve list thats holding the format back. If so, we as legacy players need to embrace and even encourage the use of MPC cards if we dont want our favorite format to meet the same fate as Vintage.

I would like to request that a mod change the title of the thread to “Should we embrace the use of MPC proxies to prevent legacy’s death?”

Is there any good way to approximate how popular legacy is today vs five years ago?

[bruizar]

This forum used to be the premier source for all legacy discussion. Magic is more popular than ever, but this site and even the legacy reddit see barely any activity. Is there some other legacy forum people are posting at or is it all deck specific discords now? Or is legacy just dying altogether, thanks to the reserve list.

This happened with vintage. As the prices of vintage staples shot up, first, the premier vintage forum (themanadrain) died and soon after the format as a whole died.

Atleast locally, legacy has seen an uptick thanks to the MPC proxies and the Chinese fakes that finally made legacy accessible (none of us bat an eye about people using fake cards, we are just happy to have more players). Is that not the case everywhere?

Discords are kind of useless in terms of acting as long term repositories of information. And while useful to people that only play one or two decks, they are useless for developing new decks or discussing the format as a whole. The same can be said about reddit and reddit is also much less organized than this. From what I have seen, discords dont see much activity either.

I think the problem is deeper, and it’s the reserve list that is making legacy increasingly inaccessible and slowly killing it. If so, should other local legacy communities be more open to and encouraging of people playing with MPC cards that are clearly not even trying to pass for real cards, just to encourage more players in this wonderful format.

MPC doesnt allow the use of any copyrighted images, so they dont break any laws and there is no way anyone will think the cards are genuine. But all of us locally are totally fine with people using them since this is the only way for legacy to go forwards as long as the reserve list is a thing...

https://www.makeplayingcards.com/des...tg-tokens.html

Some great proxy designs for MPC... https://www.reddit.com/r/mpcproxies/top?t=all

As you can see from my post history, I mingle with and have dozens of different legacy decks built. My local legacy playgroup being okay with players that use MPC cards that arent even trying to be passed off as real magic cards is the reason why. Its so liberating for everyone to not have to worry about reserve list prices, and being stuck with just one or two decks and just being able to play whatever decks we want.

Eventhough I have playsets of most of the dual lands and legacy staples, it doesnt make sense to play with them now that they are worth thousands of dollars. The cards are safely stored away and I use MPC versions of any card thats worth over a $50. Most everyone in my playgroup does the same now.

I come from themanadrain. Proxies don't help a format. Vintage was replaced by Old School, a format with ZERO proxies and Legacy. Proxies are counterfeits, period

[Captain Hammer]

Proxies don't help a format. Vintage was replaced by Old School, a format with ZERO proxies.

And close to ZERO players.

[bruizar]

And close to ZERO players.

THat's fine, there's also barely any power to support the format anyway. Besides, I've seen 100+ oldschool events regularly here in Europe. It is bigger than vintage was in the end of it's era.

[Zulabnar]

THat's fine, there's also barely any power to support the format anyway. Besides, I've seen 100+ oldschool events regularly here in Europe. It is bigger than vintage was in the end of it's era.

This seems not in reality

http://tcdecks.net/format.php?format...20Old%20School

[Captain Hammer]

This seems not in reality

http://tcdecks.net/format.php?format...20Old%20School

Yep. In reality. Most of us Vintage players either left magic altogether or moved over to legacy once Vintage cards became too pricy to be things we should be playing games with. It wasn't a big loss, there are only a handful of cards that are allowed in Vintage but banned in Legacy. Like your link shows, a handful of people stuck around with Vintage and later Old School, but the rest of us that still play Magic sold out of Vintage and now play Legacy.

Once legacy dies, some will move on to Modern (that's probably what Wizards wants) and others will leave Magic altogether. But as for the tens of thousands of Magic cards/strategies and synergies that only exist in Legacy and will never see print into Modern, these cards and decks will be left behind in the dustbin of history.

I dabble with Modern as well. Legacy is A LOT more fun than Modern. And I would be very sad to see it die only because Legacy players cared more about how much someone is willing to spend on expensive pieces of cardboard rather than actually having an accessible format that is welcoming to newcomers.

[Lemon]

THat's fine, there's also barely any power to support the format anyway. Besides, I've seen 100+ oldschool events regularly here in Europe. It is bigger than vintage was in the end of it's era.

The thing about allowing proxies was to keep the playerbase large so that people can actually play. Saying that proxying to help build the playerbase is a problem and then saying it's ok for the playerbase to be tiny doesn't follow. How many people do you know that can play Old School daily? Or even weekly? Against more than 1 other person?