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Thread: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

  1. #1

    [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    I've been messing around with this in Modern where it isn't quite good enough, but Legacy offers a lot of stuff for it to work better.

    The idea is to basically abuse the heck out of Balance, or in this case, Restore Balance. I think we're finally at a critical mass of spells to take advantage of this with.

    The idea is pretty simple, resolve a Restore Balance with minimal lands/creatures/cards in hand and annihilate your opponent.

    The base mix of ways to cast Restore Balance is pretty standard:

    3x Collected Conjuring
    3x As Foretold
    3x Electrodominance
    3x Finale of Promise
    4x Faithless Looting
    4x Careful Study

    What's different is the supporting acceleration elements and manabase

    4x Chrome Mox
    4x Mox Tantalite
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Volcanic Island
    4x Fiery Islet
    3x Seat of the Synod
    3x The Great Furnace

    Then you've got your payoff spells

    4x Restore Balance
    4x Ancestral Vision

    And finally, your win conditions

    4x Greater Gargadon
    4x Arclight Phoenix

    And that's a rough list, but it has a lot of issues. For one thing, no interaction outside of Balance, and it's fast, but not as fast as something like 'Belcher, although it is a lot more resilient. Maybe it needs Galvanic Blast or Lightning Bolt? That would also make an 1RR Finale more likely to fire off the Phoenixes on it's own. Honestly the Phoenixes themselves might be a bad idea, maybe they should be copies of The Rack? An earlier version of this deck I was messing around with had Spirit Guides, Chalices, and stuff like City of Traitors and Crystal Vein (both better than Tomb in a deck built around Balance). Another version I messed with was Temur and featured Guided Passage and Sylvan Library.

    Mox Tantalite looks funny, but it turns Electrodominance and As Foretold into acceleration and can remove itself from your hand for free. With all of the draw and stuff it's not hard to find Balance, and both Balance and Vision are strong enough that you're generally ok with CoCo only finding one of them. Also remember if CoCo just finds two draw/discard spells that's enough to set off Phoenix and usually dumps some in the 'yard as well.

    Anyways, I really think there's something good here, because the deck plays like a Type 1 deck, but design-wise it's far enough out of my wheelhouse that I can't really finalize it enough to make it work.

    For reference, the original Maysonet Rack-Balance Deck (this is what got Balance on the Restricted list back in the day)

    Spells
    4x Balance
    3x Disenchant
    1x Regrowth
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Chain Lightning
    3x Fireball

    Enchantments
    3x Sylvan Library
    2x Consecrate Land

    Artifacts
    4x The Rack
    3x Library of Leng
    1x Chaos Orb
    1x Candelabra of Tawnos
    2x Relic Barrier

    Mana
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Black Lotus
    4x Bazaar of Baghdad
    4x Mishra's Factory
    1x Maze of Ith
    4x Taiga
    4x Plateau
    4x Savannah

    That deck was from 1994 if you're confused about some of the card choices.

    Anyways, thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    I played balancing tings in legacy as an almost carbon copy of the standard list. That may be a good starting point for you.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  3. #3

    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    I played balancing tings in legacy as an almost carbon copy of the standard list. That may be a good starting point for you.
    Balancing Tings is an incredibly different deck. Like, Balance and Balancing Act do really different things, I don't know that that's actually a good reference point. Actually, I'm wholly convinced it's a terrible idea.

  4. #4
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    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    Well balance is banned, so there is that.
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  5. #5

    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    Well balance is banned, so there is that.
    RTFC bro

    Restore Balance

  6. #6
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    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke
    Balance and Balancing Act do really different things
    Your play?
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  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    Your play?
    Sorry, forgot not everyone is old enough to have actually played with Balance when it was legal.

    Basically you empty your hand and fill the board with permanents that don't "count" for Balance, namely artifacts and enchantments - although Planeswalkers fit here too I guess.

    You use the draw and discard spells to find a way to cast Restore Balance, my preference is CoCo for Ancestrall and Balance, then you stack them so the balance resolves first, but whatever, and then you let either Gargadon or Phoenixes hit the ground and go face vs. their no board/no land/no hand selves.

    The original MRB included The Rack and a bunch of Bolts as well. Honestly, Finale for 1 would fire off Chain Lightning and Lightning Bolt, and activate Phoenix, so those should probably be in the deck too, but space is limited since we don't have access to Bazaar of Baghdad like the OG deck did, and we have some slight hoop jumping to fire off Balance - which mostly results in less deck space.

    The big difference between Balance and Balancing Act is that with Act you have to be all in before your spell resolves with no permanents and no cards in hand, whereas with Balance it's a lot more flexible because it counts several specific types of things, whereas Act is just "all permanents"

  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    I played that deck. I know what balance does. A few years ago I decided to play balancing tings because I liked it and did ok with it. I know that deck works in legacy and can probably be improved on. I think the issue you are having is that you keep saying balance and you in fact mean restore balance.

    As a preference I don’t like playing expensive do nothing cards that make some cards playable. That’s why I liked tings as cards were playable still but you could set up for a devastating balancing act.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  9. #9

    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    So, I thought there was something here and kept messing around with it, and have refined the list to this point. It's fast, brutal, and can absolutely annihilate people. Honestly this plays much more like a Vintage deck than a Legacy deck due to the raw speed and number of cards you're drawing and actions you're taking every turn.

    It's also totally a glass cannon. Completely and totally folds to Karn the Great Creator, the Green Oophe, and Stony Silence. But otherwise it's pretty resilient. And again, it can actually win before any two or three mana guys come down to stop it. Oh, 3feri and Chalice are also bad to face with this.

    New List:

    Sorceries
    4x Careful Study
    4x Faithless Looting
    4x Ancestral Vision
    4x Restore Balance

    Instants
    4x Galvanic Blast
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Shrapnel Blast

    Free Cast Spells
    4x Collected Conjuring
    4x Finale of Promise

    Creatures
    4x Arclight Phoenix

    Artifacts
    4x The Rack

    Mana
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Chrome Mox
    4x Great Furnace
    4x Seat of the Synod


    Basically you drop 2-3 mana on turn one then go nuts with draw/discard spells and then Finale out a Restore Balance or an Ancestral Vision and win from being so far ahead, and maybe you get to throw some phoenix's at their face too. Maybe Shrapnel Blast could be a Chain Lightning, but Blast lets you sac your lands before Restore Balance if needed, and it's just a big bunch of damage to the face too. It's also worth noting that you can cast Finale off of Conjuring and have it target either a Balance or a Vision, and you'll still hit three spells for Phoenix that way too.
    Last edited by morgan_coke; 10-19-2019 at 07:54 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    So, I thought there was something here and kept messing around with it, and have refined the list to this point. It's fast, brutal, and can absolutely annihilate people. Honestly this plays much more like a Vintage deck than a Legacy deck due to the raw speed and number of cards you're drawing and actions you're taking every turn.

    It's also totally a glass cannon. Completely and totally folds to Karn the Great Creator, the Green Oophe, and Stony Silence. But otherwise it's pretty resilient. And again, it can actually win before any two or three mana guys come down to stop it. Oh, 3feri and Chalice are also bad to face with this.

    New List:

    Sorceries
    4x Careful Study
    4x Faithless Looting
    4x Ancestral Vision

    Instants
    4x Galvanic Blast
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Shrapnel Blast

    Free Cast Spells
    4x Collected Conjuring
    4x Finale of Promise

    Creatures
    4x Arclight Phoenix

    Artifacts
    4x The Rack

    Mana
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Chrome Mox
    4x Great Furnace
    4x Seat of the Synod
    4x Darksteel Citadel

    Basically you drop 2-3 mana on turn one then go nuts with draw/discard spells and then Finale out a Restore Balance or an Ancestral Vision and win from being so far ahead, and maybe you get to throw some phoenix's at their face too. Maybe Shrapnel Blast could be a Chain Lightning, but Blast lets you sac your lands before Restore Balance if needed, and it's just a big bunch of damage to the face too. It's also worth noting that you can cast Finale off of Conjuring and have it target either a Balance or a Vision, and you'll still hit three spells for Phoenix that way too.
    Where is your restore balance exactly?

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] Collected Balance Phoenix, or The MRB updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Where is your restore balance exactly?
    Son of a ---- I ended up at 56 cards and thought I miscounted the deck, so I added 4x Darksteel Citadel. Fixed it. My bad.

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