no discussion about it yet?
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There is a pretty significant difference between the two cards that makes them functionally different enough to get around the reserve list.
Lotus field etb tapped and you sacrifice tapped or untapped lands. So on t3 when you play it you will have 2 mana.
Lotus vale requires that the lands sacrificed are untapped because it can tap for 3 mana the turn it etb.
So, under normal conditions lotus vale is faster but does not have hexproof. That trade off is significant.
Although your natural instinct may be to think, who is going to want to play lotus vale in legacy with all of the wastelands running around...it boils down to speed vs protection which is a common tradeoff in mtg.
Last edited by apple713; 07-08-2019 at 09:59 PM.
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Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Only if you think lands like Breeding Pool are also functional reproductions of Tropical Island.
Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?
Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?
Idk how you get 2+2???
Just because you prefer protection doesnt mean the speed vale provides is trash. Personally they are both garbage for legacy. What are you going to do, candelabra them?
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
4x Scorched Ruins
4x Lotus Vale
4x Lotus Field
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Chrome Mox
4x Blood Sun
4x Serum Powder
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What's the most powerful stuff we can cast?
I think that - although they have similarities - the drawbacks on Lotus Vale and Lotus Field are mechanically different enough that they might not fit into the same deck.
Lotus Vale enters untapped, and has the sacrifice clause as a replacement ability and eats untapped lands. Lotus Vale enters tapped, has the sacrifice ability as a trigger, and enters tapped.
That means that Lotus Field can work with untap effects like Amulet of Vigor and Candelabra of Tawnos while Lotus Vale does not, and, on the other hand, Lotus Vale enters untapped, so it's got potential to work in a deck that doesn't run untap effects. I think that Lotus Field is more likely to work in a deck with cards like Karoo.
Last edited by Humphrey; 07-09-2019 at 12:20 PM.
Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Vale (and Scorchced Ruins) have been erratad so the sac is like a cost, but Field has the old wording as an ETB trigger which I assume means with Amulet of Vigor it is a pseudo Lotus.
Lands aren't spells and don't have costs, it's a replacement effect, and Amulet of vigor will trigger on your Lotus Field's ETB (giving you one use before the sacrifice trigger).
As for which one is better: Since both are unplayable outside a combo, the answer is "whichever one combos better with your cards"
Well, even with amulet, it still costs a land drop and a second land if you have it. So maybe if you're cheating land drops with Second Sunrise or something.
You could run it with Brought Back pretty easily.
I think the problem is with the way Field is worded, you still have to sacrifice 2 lands regardless. You can get blown out with this sacrifice trigger on the stack they can waste a dual or something and then you have to sac this to its own ability if I'm not mistaken if you don't have 2 other lands to sac
Sometimes, you just gotta end your own turn: Sundial of the Infinite
I used the term cost loosely to refer to the fact that actions had to be paid (saccing lands) prior to the card entering play. I think Lotus Field's effect is an etb, otherwise wouldnt it be worded like how they erratad cards like Lotus Vale, Mox Diamond and Scortched Ruins? ie.
which is moot since the amulet gives a trigger like you said. It can also be used for a landfall trigger, albeit costly, but its another way the card is functionally different than Vale.If Lotus Vale would enter the battlefield, sacrifice two untapped lands instead. If you do, put Lotus Vale onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
Yeah it would sac to itself (like the original lotus) plus another land if you only had 2 lands in play I think, not saying it is a playable interaction, due to its 'all in' nature it probably is not worth it most of the time over any karoo, but it is something cant be done with the Vale. You could chain Primeval Titans if you wanted or something I dont know.
Please don't. Te term cost has a very specific meaning in the game, and when talking about niche ways to break cards it's very important to use the terms correctly. Lotus Field is clearly an ETB because it says "When" and Mox Diamond, Lotus Value, and Scotch-guarded ruins are replacement effects because they say "If .. instead".
Does "original lotus" here mean Lotus Vale? Because Lotus Vale can never be sacrificed to its own ability. If you're sacrificing lands, it's still in the process of entering the battlefield, and therefore isn't present on the battlefield to be sacked. Also, playing a land 'just happens'. No one can respond to it, so no one can respond to Lotus Vale's replacement effect by using wasteland. For example. Meanwhile Lotus Field, as a triggered ability, can be responded to.Yeah it would sac to itself (like the original lotus) plus another land if you only had 2 lands in play I think, not saying it is a playable interaction, due to its 'all in' nature it probably is not worth it most of the time over any karoo, but it is something cant be done with the Vale. You could chain Primeval Titans if you wanted or something I dont know.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
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