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Thread: Dark Depth-Hogaak

  1. #61

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Top 8 the challenge yesterday and lost to red stompy in the quarters. Pocked up one loss in the swiss, to ANT. Played the mirror for the first time in the swiss as well.

    Played same list, but considering some changes to make deck better vs red stompy and combo.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
    -Refiner of Hogaak Depths.

  2. #62

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    So, this version is still bad then?

  3. #63
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    Top 8 the challenge yesterday and lost to red stompy in the quarters. Pocked up one loss in the swiss, to ANT. Played the mirror for the first time in the swiss as well.

    Played same list, but considering some changes to make deck better vs red stompy and combo.
    I think Force of Vigor makes the red stompy matchup much better. It kills all the lock pieces and can be played around them easily (Trinisphere is the only awkward one, but you can be Blood Moon locked and still fire it off). The matchup is still unfavorable, but Force works a lot better there than the alternatives do.

  4. #64
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I think Force of Vigor makes the red stompy matchup much better. It kills all the lock pieces and can be played around them easily (Trinisphere is the only awkward one, but you can be Blood Moon locked and still fire it off). The matchup is still unfavorable, but Force works a lot better there than the alternatives do.
    Can confirm, Force of Vigor is very good at fighting Chalice/Blood Moon. I played 3 in a recent 1K, really liked it.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  5. #65
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak


  6. #66
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    It also got 3rd at a 104-player tournament in China.

  7. #67
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Great results!

    There's been some discussion about whether this is better than traditional Depths.

    I think the relevant question shouldn't be "how often did it just win with Marit Lage?", but "how often did the Hogaak plan help in games that Depths wouldn't win?". This can be hard to tell in matchups where any Depths deck would get there. I think we need more testing and streams, but this deck has promise.

    The Chinese 3rd place list is almost a carbon copy of the main lists here, just with 3 Satyrs and 0 Sylvan Library.

    One of the biggest gains I found from this build is just the Stitcher's Supplier/Satyr Wayfinder + Cabal Therapy interaction. Cabal Therapy is a very powerful card in a combo deck where we only care about removing certain problem cards, especially if you're a good Cabal Therapy player. Don't mill me into Hogaak, just find me some Therapies!

  8. #68

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    I've recently switched to playing this just to try it out (was previously playing just the standard g/b depths list with mox and confidant) and man was I impressed.

    Having another angle to attach from is great, but the cabal therapy package is really what I love the most. It also has much better edict insurance than other depths lists. I played it last week to a 4-0 finish at locals and I think this deck is the real deal.

    Also it seems to be picking up steam. More people are playing it, most recently Andrea Mengucci played it to a 5-0 finish in a league and looked incredibly impressive doing so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci3w44WHF9M

  9. #69
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    It's great to see the deck picking up attention and getting wins!

    Quote Originally Posted by mewanyk View Post
    Also it seems to be picking up steam. More people are playing it, most recently Andrea Mengucci played it to a 5-0 finish in a league and looked incredibly impressive doing so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci3w44WHF9M

    I cringed through all the misplays in his MOST matchup, but overall it was fun watching him stomp Delver decks. Hogaak is the real deal against them. His stream makes me appreciate the Satyr Wayfinders more.

  10. #70

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    It's great to see the deck picking up attention and getting wins!
    i watched the mengucci vid, seems legit and fun.

    i'll be playing this tomorrow night; i'm about 10 cards short right now.
    is there any wiggle room on adding a Life from the Loam?

  11. #71
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    i'll be playing this tomorrow night; i'm about 10 cards short right now.
    is there any wiggle room on adding a Life from the Loam?
    Maybe 1 in the SB? In my testing Loam is worse than Satyr Wayfinder or Sylvan Library.

    Loam is slow. This deck wants the card right away, not long-term card advantage, and the body+mill from Satyr has better synergy with Hogaak and Cabal Therapy. Loam might help in some grindy Wasteland matchups post-board (e.g. Lands, Wrenn, Maverick) but the maindeck runs smoother without it.

  12. #72

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Big ups to adrieng for coming up with this out of nowhere, and dealing with a lot of skepticism. All credit to him; totally his baby.

  13. #73

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by Lava Snacks View Post
    Big ups to adrieng for coming up with this out of nowhere, and dealing with a lot of skepticism. All credit to him; totally his baby.
    adrieng got with momma lage and we now have the hogaak baby...





    does this even work for convoke?




    EDIT: somebody said get your elvish reclaimers now. they're right, both my LGS sold out yesterday; still three cards short, damn!
    EDITED: got my last 3 cards and didn't lose a match. split for first and got $24 credit. get your foils now, boys!
    EDITEDED: this guy posted a sweet budget version for $360: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2087862#paper
    Last edited by non-inflammable; 07-28-2019 at 08:32 AM.

  14. #74
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Even if you did get the extra green man from convoke + Leyline, what would you use it on? You can't use it to cast Hogaak so it would have to go towards another effect.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  15. #75

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You can't use it to cast Hogaak so it would have to go towards another effect.
    yeah, never played a convoke card before. the nearest effect for me was something like a birds of paradise or noble hierarch.

    so it seems this version of hogaak/depths is "locked-in" on what 61 cards to play.
    i've seen the budget versions replacing the mox diamonds and inquisition of kozilek for thoughtseize and ghost quarter for wasteland, etc...

    is there another avenue to tweak this? hivemind engaged.

    however, deck felt powerful and top-decks were amazing while also hoping to mill a cabal therapy to strip threats.
    the only game i felt lost was with a rest in peace in play but i still got him to 4 life with dryad beats.
    how about rancor for our little dudes? get beaten by my plant!

  16. #76
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    I've played a 1-of Rancor off and on, it's usually very at making the Plan B grind a little better (Rancor-ing a Confidant/Hexmage/ESG.) With Hogaak already having trample I don't think you'll have need, or room, in this particular version, but in traditional Turbo Depths with the addition of Elvish Reclaimer might want one; a 5/4 trampler is pretty decent, and isn't susceptible to grave hate.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  17. #77
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    I havenít played this version of the deck myself yet but it seems interesting, but am curious if anyone has experienced incidental graveyard hate with Surgical Extraction leading to blowouts against it? I often run into tempo/control matchups bringing in Surgical against the regular build of the deck so itíll pop up a lot against this, and am wondering how often itís happened that you just play a Stitcherís Supplier, mill a Dark Depths, and have it get extracted on t1/2?

    This version of the deck has a reasonable backup plan for sure so not the end of the world, but given everything written on the deck so far still suggests youíre winning with Marit Lage the bulk of the time anyway, I do wonder how hard of a time that makes things for it.

  18. #78

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    You can set up your mills post board so that you can immediately delve away vulnerable cards like depths to a hogaak. Even if delver extracts depths you should be able to race at least if you can find hogaak.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
    -Refiner of Hogaak Depths.

  19. #79
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    How are you typically playing out matchups like that (specifically Daze matchups) with this build? Are you slowing down a lot and dancing around Daze/Waste/SE or are you finding success just jamming things and forcing them to answer ASAP?

  20. #80

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by Di View Post
    How are you typically playing out matchups like that (specifically Daze matchups) with this build? Are you slowing down a lot and dancing around Daze/Waste/SE or are you finding success just jamming things and forcing them to answer ASAP?
    the discard suite of therapy and thoughtseize really helped get my threats out. the mills were exciting, hoping to flip a therapy.
    it was actually the momentum that let me jam threats so much so, that people were countering my little guys and terminusing my dryad arbors.

    oddly, my wins were about 50/50 hogaak to momma lage.

    the grave hate vs. surgical could be just SB in 4 of your own surgicals and surgical yourself in response and "fail to find".

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