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Thread: DarkDepth-Hogaak

  1. #1

    DarkDepth-Hogaak

    This deck is based on the dark depth combo and the 8/8 trample Hogaak delve inclusion.

    Here is Dnsolver list, which is somehow the "reference" and based on my first iteration of the deck but with an improved mabase :


    // 61 Maindeck
    // 3 Artifact
    3 Mox Diamond

    // 20 Creature
    4 Elvish Reclaimer
    4 Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
    3 Satyr Wayfinder
    4 Stitcher's Supplier
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    1 Dryad Arbor

    // 4 Instant
    4 Crop Rotation

    // 26 Land
    2 Bayou
    1 Bojuka Bog
    4 Dark Depths
    1 Forest
    3 Khalni Garden
    1 Sejiri Steppe
    1 Swamp
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Wasteland

    // 8 Sorcery
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Thoughtseize


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 3 Creature
    SB: 3 Sylvan Safekeeper

    // 11 Instant
    SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 2 Assassin's Trophy
    SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction

    // 1 Land
    SB: 1 Karakas





    Back to previous build the 5 color manabase was terrible, though the gsz package is good


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 21 Creature
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    4 Elvish Reclaimer
    4 Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
    4 Stitcher's Supplier
    3 Satyr Wayfinder
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper

    // 4 Instant
    4 Crop Rotation

    // 25 Land
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 Khalni Garden
    4 Blooming Marsh
    1 Sejiri Steppe
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Ghost Quarter
    3 Nurturing Peatland
    1 Dryad Arbor

    // 10 Sorcery
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Green Sun's Zenith


    // 12 Sideboard
    // 4 Artifact
    SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst

    // 7 Instant
    SB: 4 Force of Vigor
    SB: 3 Extirpate

    // 1 Land
    SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate

    SB : 2 Thoughtseize
    SB : 1 Karakas

    Last edited by adrieng; 07-29-2019 at 09:05 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    can you post some vids? sounds like a fun idea, but i'm a little skeptical.
    -rob

  3. #3
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Some questions that have been rolling around in my head since you posted it in the Turbo thread:

    1) Aren't Delver matchups favorable already? It makes sense to perform well against those decks even with a traditional Depths list.
    2) Is the susceptibility to Wasteland and graveyard hate worth splashing in 12 slots of graveyard synergy? Reanimator Depths is already a deck with a more resilient mana-base and a more powerful graveyard plan.
    3) How does this version shore up traditional weaknesses of Depths? Does it improve the Miracles/D&T/Moon Stompy matchups?
    4) Is it targeted towards a specific metagame? Dredge goes in/out of favor depending on the expected metagame, as does Reanimator. I could see a specific metagame where having a surprise graveyard strategy to fall back on would be strong if the Depths plan runs into a bad matchup.

    I think the hybrid factor is very cool, I've done it myself with Tarmogoyfs in the sideboard before. Some folks have tried Gurmag Anglers. I think you're going for a similar, but more powerful alternative graveyard plan. It gives up some percentage points due to the lack of maindeck Pithing Needles, but that seems reasonable if Wasteland isn't as prevalent (and you are now playing some Loams in the list.)
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  4. #4

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    People alwasy claim to have a good delver matchup while in reality with wrenn, a well timed bounce or wasteland, delver can do the classic stuff.

    This list destroys delver, i played it in league at least 8 match and i lost maybe one game or two out of the 2/3 *8 match, including the new list of delver
    with wrenn and dreadhorde arcanist.

    While temur doesn't go for 2 crop and one karakas in side they don't really stand a chance.

    This deck is less suceptible to graveyard hate than classic list cause it has multiple game plans, you need to pass 2-3 surgicals to win.

    Surgical is not bad in the matchup, but it is clearly not a card that the deck fear too much.

    You have multiple cabal, to fight through surgical, that you can find pretty easily, you have the depth plan and the hogaak plan, you have sideboarded faerie that protec you from opponents surgical ans snappy

    in an uncounterble manner, what do you want more ?

    Reanimator depth is hot garbagge, it does nor the depth plan well, nor the reanimator plan well, this does both the stuff in a better manner, cause all your cards create value.

    You are talking about tarmogoyf in depth which is not at all what this deck does, just test the deck man then we can talk open your cockatrice stuff if you don't have an mtgo account and play the deck against opponent when

    you'll have played 10-20 games against good deck, you'll see the power of the deck and then you can come back and talk about it. There is no point to argue with someone which didn't test things, and just critics without practicing.

    Magic is not just theory game, you need concret stuff to see where you go and if things works properly.
    Last edited by adrieng; 07-11-2019 at 01:28 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    Man this deck is broken, old depth was just ok, this is tier one.

    People alwasy claim to have a good delver matchup while in reality with wrenn, a well timed bounce or wasteland, delver can do the classic stuff.

    This list destroys delver, i played it in league at least 8 match and i lost maybe one game or two out of the 2/3 *8 match, including the new list of delver
    with wrenn and dreadhorde arcanist.

    While temur doesn't go for 2 crop and one karakas in side they don't really stand a chance.

    This deck is less suceptible to graveyard hate than classic list cause it has multiple game plans, you need to pass 2-3 surgicals to win.

    Surgical is not bad in the matchup, but it is clearly not a card that the deck fear too much.

    You have multiple cabal, to fight through surgical, that you can find pretty easily, you have the depth plan and the hogaak plan, you have sideboarded faerie that protec you from opponents surgical ans snappy

    in an uncounterble manner, what do you want more ?

    Reanimator depth is hot garbagge, it does nor the depth plan well, nor the reanimator plan well, this does both the stuff in a better manner, cause all your cards create value.

    You are talking about tarmogoyf in depth which is not at all what this deck does, just test the deck man then we can talk open your cockatrice stuff if you don't have an mtgo account and play the deck against opponent when

    you'll have played 10-20 games against good deck, you'll see the power of the deck and then you can come back and talk about it. There is no point to argue with someone which didn't test things, and just critics without practicing.

    Magic is not just theory game, you need concret stuff to see where you go and if things works properly.
    I have used Magic Workstation in the past, I haven't had any luck making Cockatrice work. I can proxy up a list and pit it against a gauntlet, it's what I've done in the past with other tests.

    Sorry I have seemed so difficult; I genuinely want to know the answers to those questions. I'll just have to test it myself, as you suggest.
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  6. #6
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Even in some very limited testing vs. a bot, multiple Karakas are a huge hassle.

    But this deck works better than it seemingly looks on paper. I did swap a Loam and a Peatland for two Mox Diamonds and, while this likely isn't "correct," they do make for even more explosive openings.
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Is there enough to feed Hogaak?
    Originally Posted by Forbiddian

    "Drawing it consistently" is a joke. It doesn't matter whether you have 10 copies or 1 copy. Some games you'll start with it. Some games you'll start without it
    .

    I'm thoroughly convinced that talking to you morons kills braincells. Your parent's should have been sterilized.

  8. #8

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Is this April 1st? The entire thread is full of hilariously great info. Board in FOUR force of vigors vs storm? Righttt. No way at all to interact with creatures? Righttt. One loam in a depths deck that want to bin lands? Righttt.

  9. #9

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Is this April 1st? The entire thread is full of hilariously great info. Board in FOUR force of vigors vs storm? Righttt. No way at all to interact with creatures? Righttt. One loam in a depths deck that want to bin lands? Righttt.
    Yeah it seems you never played the storm matchup, you'ld better shut your mouth before criticizing and test the stuff, you never played that matchup it seems good storm player always cast there led and petal chrome mox even if they don't go off in the turn to avoid them to be discarded.
    That's the way to go when you know your opponent doesn't have any counters to interact with you.

    I beat the 3 last stom players i faced in league, so i know what I am talking about and clearly force of vigor was one of the best card to intercat with them.

    EDIT : the storm matchup might not be that good, i did some more testing and lost some match, so i might have to do more testing to see if it is ok or not [particularly the BW version which is harder to hate and faster cause of echo of eons] and a better version i think

    What's the point to interact with others creatures when you can just race them, there is no aggro deck i know which can race a turn 2 8/8 trample or 20/20 flying dude, and if you get the safekeeper there is no way they are winning. Yeah loam is bad in this deck, even one off might be not the way to go.
    Last edited by adrieng; 07-13-2019 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Let's just hold off on here until your 5-0 is posted. Would love to see some kind of capture as well.

    You don't have to come across as so aggressive on these forums.
    -rob

  11. #11

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    You don't have to come across as so aggressive on these forums.
    Is this April 1st? The entire thread is full of hilariously great info
    Feel sorry to reply so aggresively, but his post was also aggressive, telling is it first april and so. Let's talk about this deck and how to improve it.

    fetch manabase might also be a way to go to feed your grave, lot of options are available.

    I still tested the deck less than one week and mostly against delver decks, so don't know yet if it will break things, [but it looked so after my first 5 leagues] and how it behave agaisnt others decks.

    That for sure the land matchup is terrible, i lost the three one i faced, deaht and taxes is ok beat one lost one.

    Miracle is ok, some safekeeper main shld improve it.
    Last edited by adrieng; 07-13-2019 at 01:55 PM.

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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    Is this April 1st? The entire thread is full of hilariously great info. Board in FOUR force of vigors vs storm? Righttt.
    4 Force of Vigor + 10 discard spells.

    TEN.

    4 Therapy + 3 Inquisition + 3 Thoughtseize. Therapy flashes back too.

    Discard does most of the work. They may play around that by playing out artifacts from hand, and Force of Vigor punishes them for that. It doesn't seem that bad a strategy. If you 1-for-1 their hand and 2-for-2 mana rocks, Storm doesn't have enough resources to go off.


    No way at all to interact with creatures? Righttt.
    Storm and TurboDepths barely have a way to either. Why does combo care about 2/xs?

    I'd like to see some videos, but an 18-2 record in 4 straight leagues is something to take note of.

  13. #13

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    What an insane win rate! We needed a UW Tempo style thread for the modern era.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  14. #14
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    4 Force of Vigor + 10 discard spells.

    TEN.

    4 Therapy + 3 Inquisition + 3 Thoughtseize. Therapy flashes back too.

    Discard does most of the work. They may play around that by playing out artifacts from hand, and Force of Vigor punishes them for that. It doesn't seem that bad a strategy. If you 1-for-1 their hand and 2-for-2 mana rocks, Storm doesn't have enough resources to go off.
    I was thinking the same thing, that's a boat-load of discard, and 4 of them are Cabal Therapy. Few decks can handle even one well-played Therapy, getting hit with other discard plus Therapy? Murder in the 3rd degree to decks like storm. This version, as with his older Turbo depths version, plays a full set of Khalni Garden to feed the Therapies.

    I do feel that the deck likely benefits from +4 Verdant Catacombs and +1-3 Bayou. Having extra lands to eat to pay for Hogaak and make Reclaimer a 3/4 seems like a low cost with a net positive payoff.
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  15. #15

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    4 Force of Vigor + 10 discard spells.

    TEN.

    4 Therapy + 3 Inquisition + 3 Thoughtseize. Therapy flashes back too.

    Discard does most of the work. They may play around that by playing out artifacts from hand, and Force of Vigor punishes them for that. It doesn't seem that bad a strategy. If you 1-for-1 their hand and 2-for-2 mana rocks, Storm doesn't have enough resources to go off.




    Storm and TurboDepths barely have a way to either. Why does combo care about 2/xs?

    I'd like to see some videos, but an 18-2 record in 4 straight leagues is something to take note of.
    TEN DISCARD SPELLS OH NO! Vs a deck that runs Past in Flames.... Anyone who has run a discard based deck can tell you, they lose to better top decks. Also, brainstorm. Also, infernal tutor. And combo decks don't really need that much interaction with creatures, because they plan on trying to combo by turn 3, on a regular basis. This deck is slow af with no reliable way to speed out a win. Please keep going though, this whole thread is hilarious! Better get ready to ban some cards because of this deck LOLOLOLOLOL

  16. #16
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    TEN DISCARD SPELLS OH NO! Vs a deck that runs Past in Flames.... Anyone who has run a discard based deck can tell you, they lose to better top decks. Also, brainstorm. Also, infernal tutor. And combo decks don't really need that much interaction with creatures, because they plan on trying to combo by turn 3, on a regular basis. This deck is slow af with no reliable way to speed out a win. Please keep going though, this whole thread is hilarious! Better get ready to ban some cards because of this deck LOLOLOLOLOL
    To be fair, all versions of Turbo Depths play Crop Rotation >>> Bojuka Bog. Discard into Crop Rotation buys you a ton of turns against storm. The interaction is early and cheap, meaning a little hiccup like that can swing the matchup in Depths' favor. I'm not saying the deck is busted, I'm skeptical as well, but I feel a fair discussion is warranted.
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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    This deck looks really interesting.

    I have only concerns about a Chalice of the Void opening against your 21 1-drops.

    Is Khalni Garden really worth it?

    I'd also prefer Fetchlands to feed Hogaak and Reclaimer.

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    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    TEN DISCARD SPELLS OH NO! Vs a deck that runs Past in Flames....
    Multiple Crop Rotation/Reclaimer into Bojuka Bog, but sure...

    It's also hard to cast 4-mana spells or optimize Infernal Tutor when you don't have mana rocks, which is a good argument in favor of Force of Vigor.

    Anyone who has run a discard based deck can tell you, they lose to better top decks.
    Those are discard-based attrition decks with slow clocks. This is a combo deck with redundant ways to go off and tutors. The clock's faster than most discard-based decks. Discard + clock does beat storm.

    I'm not saying this is the greatest thing since Hulk Flash, just that it does seem more viable than it looks at first glance, presents a legitimate game plan and warrants discussion. His league record is impressive. A video would be nice to see how it plays out, if those wins were just bad luck for the opponents.

    But please keep talking like a toddler and throwing a tantrum on the internet while the rest of us discuss Magic.

    RE: OP Do you have any streams of your league wins? Any tournament reports?
    Last edited by FTW; 07-11-2019 at 01:21 PM.

  19. #19

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    I'm gonna go ahead and trust the only person who actually playtested the deck, rather than people who spend all day theorycrafting.

    Re: the decklist, can't it fit a Karakas? Maybe trim a Khalni Garden for it?

  20. #20

    Re: DarkDepth-Hogaak

    yeah maybe a karakas in side, alos i tested a bit the grixis control matchup and strix is way more annoying for this deck than for classic depth, cause hoogak dies to them.

    so yeah i might have faced good matchups a lot aka the delver deck that this deck crushes.

    As said before i have only one week of testing, and i might have felt overconfidant about the deck because of the good results i had on mtgo on five leagues.

    jax tested the deck a bit and went 3 times 4-1 and one 0-2 and he feel that the deck is viable but might not be better than classic bug depth. So don't know might be a metagame deck if you expect lot of delver decks.

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