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Thread: Viken Legacy Championship III July 27th, 2-4 with Imperial Bomber-Painter or Bombcake

  1. #1
    pettdan's Avatar
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    Mar 2013

    Stockholm, Sweden


    Viken Legacy Championship III July 27th, 2-4 with Imperial Bomber-Painter or Bombcake

    Played in a 1k event last Saturday in Viken, very pretty village in Southern Sweden, and it was a great event run by user Mackan (who went on to win [edit: oops, came 2nd] the event, report here: It went relatively bad and I ended up 2-4, had lots of fun anyway. This is a brief improvement to a short report I posted in the Painter Discord, thought I'd share it with the other tournament participants and why not add it here then? It's not really worthy of the tournament section but feels malplaced in the decks section too.

    I had brought my Vengevine BUG Nic Fit, Wu Bomberman and Rw Bomber-Painter on the trip but felt more familiar with the Painter deck so went with that. Also Nic Fit can be very grindy which can be tough during a long day, at least Painter has the potential for quick wins although this specific version of Nic Fit plays Intuition and Vengevines so hitting for at least 12 in one turn, with haste, is probably relatively good at closing out games. As for Wu Bomberman it can definitely win fast but always felt more inconsistent and I couldn't locate the Skycloud Expanse for the mana base (check AR's [edit: Rationalist here] posts or the excellent streams from CardKingdom where it was featured this week) ...

    I piloted a version, originally based on Shortcake, that I started on in 2017 around the Top ban. As Grixis Control became one of the best decks around (as I recall it now) I felt like I needed a more resilient threat (i.e. Auriok Salvagers). Currently I'm considering skipping white altogether but we'll see about that, Canonist feels irreplaceable but maybe Trinisphere can do. I've since revisited the list and posted about it for a few months now in the Painter Discord (those posts are now more or less lost in cyber space), IIRC it was due to being inspired by Punda who brought up working on a Bomberman-Painter crossover (which was inspired by some of my earlier lists, very nice to learn). Here is the latest post on this theme that I've saved a link to:

    Edit: here's an even older post on this theme, with a link to some lists thst got me into this style of deck. Mostly interesting for myself probably.

    It's funny, Salvagers was for the old list somewhat close to what Karn tGC is for the new: for 4 mana you get to combo through Chalice, combo against Eldrazi shuffle effects, card advantage, an alt wincon working around Needle and Surgical etc, and this while being slightly less vulnerable to removal than Painter or Welder (I changed 2 Welders into 2 Salvagers, for Karn it's a bit different though). Considering how popular the new Karn is it's surprising not more people tried it before (expensive LED's may be part of the reason), but maybe I'm overvaluing Salvagers.. Anyway, with Karn printed, the question is why one may want to keep playing Salvagers now? One reason is to basically, somewhat oversimplified, get a fifth Karn tGC, and another is to get to play Ballista due to the increased synergy and combo with Salvagers. Ballista unfortunately got much worse with the printings of Arcanist and W6, I think, since it can't answer Arcanist efficiently and W6 keeps down the strategies and creatures that Ballista is good against (they both ping x/1's). I'm sure a more in-depth analysis is motivated but that's not my purpose today. On to the list.

    Recent changes to the list

    Recent changes to my list was +2 mountains, - 1 plains & plateau. To hedge vs W6 and Wastelands. I played one of each of Blood Moon and Sun before this event (earlier it was 2 Suns), but changed the Sun into a second Moon for this event to make sure to punish greedy mana bases but with more dead cards in certain matchups. I think in a higher stakes tournament it may be better to play game winning bombs than in a league when I guess consistency is a bit better. I guess in addition, I actually expect more decks that Moon is better against in a high stakes tournament than in the league (local Legacy league) where I expect more fetch-based stable mana bases... May be all wrong.

    Due to the changed lands I changed the sb Duergar Hedge-Mage into a Cratermaker and the Moat into a Lightning Bolt (both answer Arcanist). I also changed Liquimetal Coating into Isochron Scepter, which may be wrong but I think playing Scepter and exiling a Blast is pretty backbreaking vs many of the same decks that coating is, thinking of Miracles, and if you have a Painter out it's an improved Coating that answers anything, almost. With the added benefit that if you happen to have a g2/3 Bolt or Abrade in hand, you get a removal recursion machine. And there is potential for a surgical machine which may sometimes be good too. I feel it is hard to analyze this slot and it must be tested.

    The matchups

    R1 Eldrazi Post. Feels like a tough matchup but not unwinnable. Asked afterwards and he'd cut the shuffledrazi, I didn't get painter+stone anyway but boarded assuming shuffle effects. In g1 I open with Welder, he opens with 10 mana on t1 (!) and a trinisphere but no threats, I follow up with t2 copter, t4 Karn, weld in Lattice ftw.
    Out: 1 Grindstone, 1 Canonist, 1 E Tutor
    In: 1 Cratermaker, 1 Relic of P, 1 Abrade
    Would have gone - 1 more Grindstone +1 Abrade if confirmed shuffledrazi.
    In g2 Karn SoU tokens (3 of them, 5/5s) and 2/2 ballista very barely win through a bunch of ugin ineffable's tokens and a 5/5 ballista (opp had loads of mana for next untap). Off to a great start.
    Results: 2-0

    R2 RUG Delver. G1 I assemble combo with engineer and need to untap while at 1 life, he topdecks the bolt.
    Out: 1 E Tutor, 1 Karn SoU, 1 Canonist
    In: 1 Relic of P, 1 Abrade, 1 Bolt
    Maybe Cratermaker is better than some of above, being a recruitable answer to Null Rod and answering Delver too. Maybe I should also cut the Salvager for another answer.
    G2 he plays an early Null Rod and I can't find the one Abrade I boarded in. Should have boarded in two Abrades probably. Never saw the moons.
    Results: 0-2 (1-1)

    R3 BUG Nic Fit. G1 he therapies double Karn and I'm left with two Blasts that get discarded before he beats me down with small creatures.
    Out: 2 Moon
    In: 1 Canonist, 1 Relic of P
    I wasn't sure what to board, the moons seemed low impact. Canonist was brought in to give me time to empty my hand vs Therapy, and Relic was brought in as a cantrip that answers Therapy. It's very hard to answer Deed which is the main problem in the matchup, so need to hope to be able combo out before deed hits or have Painter+Blast ready.
    G2 opponent blows up a deed that clears 6-7 of my permanents, following up with goyf and Clique. I get down Karn tgc at low life and wish for bridge with mana for lattice next turn. Opp topdecks the decay.
    Results: 0-2 (1-2)

    R4 Burn. He bolts all my creatures and also me and that's game I think.
    Out: 2 Moon, 1 Canonist, 2 Karn tGC
    In: 2 Abrade, 1 Bolt, 1 Jitte, 1 Cratermaker
    I figured Karn tGC is too slow too often and that maindeck Jitte is more likely to make an impact, considering it can also be E Tutored and Engineered for, thus it can also be Recruitered for.
    Results: 0-2 (1-3)

    R5 Burn. Get him with Bomberman one game, hoped for no Fireblast and came out lucky, and in another Ballista and Karn SoU pressure him through Pyrostatic Pillar and Eidolon. Ballista actually repeatedly won me Burn matchups in the past when opponent lands Eidolon and want to race. Along with Copter and Welder that they must bolt.
    Sideboarding: like for the previous match.
    Results: 2-1 (2-3)

    R6 Eldrazi.
    Both games a t2 TKS takes my good card and I don't put up much fight. Both Painter and Moon are great at messing with their mana base but no luck.
    Out: 2 Blasts, 1 Canonist
    In: 2 Abrade, 1 Cratermaker
    Results: 0-2 (2-4)

    Concluding remarks
    Sorry there is some repetition below..
    • Only saw Blood Moon vs Nic Fit and Burn. It's the curse of Moon and Chalice in my experience, you only ever see them when they are bad.. Maybe better luck next time. I changed my list to 2 Moons after having recently gone up to 1 Moon and 1 Sun from previously none. The Sun is very experimental and is kind of based on my experience of Moon usually being a dead card, having it cantrip makes this less of a problem and still lets you punish greedy fetch baded mana bases. As the rounds played out the Sun would have been better, but Moon would have had gamewinning potential in some matchups so I guess it's perhaps worth it.
    • Had one Bomberman win, which was vs Burn where Painter or Welder, which is usually basically the replacement for the Salvagers, would not have been very useful. Also the Ballistae that go with the Bomberman package are harder to evaluate but were gamewinning vs Eldrazipost (the alternative Cratermaker would have been great too though, taking out Ugin) and as a 4 drop getting around Eidolon vs Burn.
    • Matchups were a bit tough I think. Burn is often commented on as the worst matchup and played it twice, Chalice matchups can be tough and played it twice (I like to think they are even without shuffledrazi but very draw dependent), I think Nic Fit is probably pretty even but with heavy discard and removal I don't usually feel favored. I think RUG Delver may be the best matchup all day but lost there.

    Any comments, questions and suggestions appreciated!
    Last edited by pettdan; 11-09-2019 at 12:45 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Viken Legacy Championship III July 27th, 2-4 with Imperial Bomber-Painter or Bomb

    Good on you for posting a report for a less successful tournament; they're my favorite type of report to read. Most people only post reports for successful tournaments, but I always learn the most from my failures, and also learn the most from these types of reports. Interesting deck too. I'm curious if the Scepter will end up being good.

  3. #3
    pettdan's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013

    Stockholm, Sweden


    Re: Viken Legacy Championship III July 27th, 2-4 with Imperial Bomber-Painter or Bomb

    Thanks for the encouragement, LOLWut!

  4. #4

    Re: Viken Legacy Championship III July 27th, 2-4 with Imperial Bomber-Painter or Bomb

    Yes indeed so great to read your success and sharing.
    Well learned, good luck in future!

  5. #5

    Re: Viken Legacy Championship III July 27th, 2-4 with Imperial Bomber-Painter or Bomb

    Great report and i think you nailed down the ballista problem, very nice analyzis

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