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Thread: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

  1. #21
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Both Scab-Clan Berserker and Zo-Zu the Punisher seem too slow for this format.

    Consider resolving one of these turn 3 on the draw, not affecting opponent until his 4th turn. How many decks can just ignore that? Unfair decks will win first. Fair decks will have removal or a blocker online by then. Even if it isn't removed, how threatening is a conditional 2-4 damage per turn starting turn 4? Is it better than Sulfuric Vortex?

    Punisher pieces need to be consistently down on turn 1 or turn 2 to be relevant. Cards with 2 or 2R mana costs can be played turn 1 with a Sol Land manabase + SSG/Mox. 1RR costs are much harder to get in play quickly. Maybe turn 2 with a SSG, only to get 2-for-1'd by Lightning Bolt?

    Also I like going creatureless and blanking removal.
    I agree about Punisher being a bit late arriving on turn 3, by then the opponent probably made 3 land drops and may not need many more lands. This may work for a stax version but it seems like a weak effect, it even was back in 1994 (edit: considering Ankh) and CMC's have been creeping down since then. I don't want to stop the brewing but I'm not tempted to play this guy myself. Edit: Ankh seems like it needs a Mana breach or some similar messing with lands to be relevant. Edit2: Mana breach is actually a very exciting card, I could see this wrecking control decks..

    While for Berserker, his relevance is measured by the amount of non-creature spells the opponent needs to play during the rest of the game. Supposing you did something meaningful on turn 1 and 2, maybe bolt a creature and play Eidolon t2, the game may go on for quite a while so I think the Berserker is useful, more so than Punisher. I think it was my gut reaction that Eidolon is by far the best card in the deck for what it's trying to do and hence building on the best strategy the deck can deploy seems like a good start. (Edit: but your criticism may be relevant, if a fair deck has a blocker with large toughness it is shut off) It shuts down Storm decks from winning and is a thorn in the eye for any cantrip based deck. You always need to consider how your deck can interact with some of the most impactful strategies in the format. It also results in a trigger when answered so it's rarely a 1 for 1 for your opponent, you are effectively bolting them every time they answer it. So I think Eidolon is a good addition to any of these decks, by shutting off one of the toughest matchups and still having good synergy with the deck's strategy. And the best way to mitigate having creatures is to add 4 more copies of Eidolon.

    Edit: imagine adding 4 Cindervines to this, I think I have to start brewing the 12 Eidolon deck now. It's just a shame that the deck really wants 4 Mox Diamond and 4 W6... The card we set out with the good intention of beating. ;)

    Sorry for not having 30 minutes to rephrase and structure this, most points stand out hopefully. :)

    Anyway.. By all means try other options.

  2. #22
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Which strategy are you going for? Sol Lands prison? Or more burn heavy? This list?


    4x Black Vise
    4x Ankh of Mishra
    4x Winter Orb
    3x Sulfuric Vortex
    4x Simian Spirit Guide
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Chain Lightning
    4x Lava Spike
    4x Price of Progress
    4x Shrapnel Blast
    3x Fireblast

    1x Ancient Tomb
    4x Great Furnace
    13x Mountain

    For something like that, on the draw I'd just board out Vise for creatures. Chances are they board out all removal. Maximize fringe deck trolling by making them board wrong.

    Example:
    -4 Vise
    -2 Shrapnel Blast (fewer artifacts)
    -1 Vortex (slow on the draw)
    +4 creature (e.g. Eidolon of the Great Revel, Dreadhorde Arcanist, Grim Lavamancer)
    +3 situational card (e.g. Smash to Smithereens, Searing Blood, Flamebreak)

    If you board into Arcanist, obviously keep Lava Spike over the spectacle cards. Otherwise Light Up the Stage could be good.

    Also for that list SSG is card disadvantage and most things you want to cheat out take colorless mana, so -2 SSG + 2 Ancient Tomb?
    Thanks for the reply! Yes, I would be burn-heavy. I think anything prison will be worse than Moon Stompy. However, being a creature-less burn deck in a format full of fair decks seems pretty good. Edit: Light up the Stage also allows me to play into some card disadvantage because it's much more high-risk/high-gain. Shrapnel Blast when countered is a self-inflicted 2-for-1, so i need card advantage in some amount.

    My thinking on SSG over Ancient Tomb comes in 3 parts:
    1) Ancient Tomb isn't a mountain, which doesn't feed Fireblast. I think Fireblast is still one of the better burn inclusions due to it being way above curve (essentially free) for 4 damage. I don't think I want fewer than 13 basic mountains.
    2) SSG is a creature in the late game when top-decked. It won't do a lot, but it might do something where Tomb would do nothing.
    3) SSG makes red mana. If I'm boarding out artifacts in some matchups (likely) then Tomb loses a lot of it's usefulness and could actually color-screw me. SSG won't ever leave me short on red.

    I think the only spectacle card I want is Light up the Stage. It allows me some card advantage when using SSG's and sacrificing artifacts from Blast.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 09-27-2019 at 04:49 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    So follow me here:

    Black Vise
    Winter Orb
    Ankh of Mishra
    Great Furnace

    Therefore...Ghirapur Aether Grid?
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  4. #24
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    So follow me here:

    Black Vise
    Winter Orb
    Ankh of Mishra
    Great Furnace

    Therefore...Ghirapur Aether Grid?
    Galvanic Blast seems like better damage:mana and damage:tempo ratio if you require at least 2 artifacts in play. Will it be much harder to hit 3? Would Arcum's Astrolabe help without slowing down the deck too much?

  5. #25

    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Open-handing Vise, Chalice, AF/ED or Ankh is key. This list was fun as hell:

    4 Black Vise
    4 Ankh of Mishra
    4 As Foretold
    4 Restore Balance
    4 Greater Gargadon
    4 Electrodominance
    4 Ancestral Vision
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Serum Powder

    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Dwarven Ruins
    4 Volcanic Island

    Balance is the way to go. That makes Black Vise and Ankh infinitismally better, especially with City and Dwarven Ruins where Gargadon gets a free exile shot (with City trigger) and Ruins to accelerate into AF or fix for ED, which also helps with Restore Balanceís effectiveness.

    The list can be edited to fight Chalice on zero. Keep in mind: no one is casting that on zero until itís probably too late G1. SSG fights Daze crap, too.
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 09-28-2019 at 09:27 AM.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Galvanic Blast seems like better damage:mana and damage:tempo ratio if you require at least 2 artifacts in play. Will it be much harder to hit 3? Would Arcum's Astrolabe help without slowing down the deck too much?
    Astrolabe would be pretty good in a Wasteland build, as it draws a card, gives Blast fodder, and lets Wasteland tap for R. Galvanic Blast could be included at that point because there would be 20 artifacts in the deck. Ghirapur Aether Grid was an idea to have repeatable damage that can grind out longer games, killing PW's and pairing up with Bolt/Chain to kill larger threats. It was an idea to keep away from creatures but still have a repeatable damage source (other than Vortex) that wasn't conditional. Galvanic is more efficient but actually requires 3 artifacts, which isn't as reliable without Astrolabe. It's an interesting idea, I might have to play around with it.

    I'm back on Lava Spike over Light up the Stage. LutS is a great card, but only if the burn saturation is high enough to rip winners off the top. I haven't seen that kind of consistency as of yet, just too many permanent-based threats flipped that don't finish the job. I'm a little down on Winter Orb as well; it's really matchup dependant whether it works or not. Miracles and 4-Color control seem especially weak to it, but tempo decks like Shadow/Delver and combo decks don't care about it at all. I think it's a sideboard card, or at the least cut down to 3 copies maindeck and squeeze in another threat. The other option is to work in Wasteland to make it better, but I'm not sure I can make room without watering down the burn strategy. I've noticed if I can keep constant pressure games go well. Playing the conditional artifacts over creatures might make Wasteland a necessary evil to make them less conditional. Then Price of Progress gets worse as well. Lots of options, some with more tension than others.

    I'm seriously debating something like Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout in the maindeck. I don't really have room in my sideboard for that effect and the risk is zero without creatures. The other option is Kuldotha Rebirth to give maximum value to dead artifacts.

    Other cards I'm considering:

    Hazoret the Fervent
    Hellspark Elemental
    Shrine of Burning Rage
    Lotus Petal


    Hazoret is indestructible, Hellspark can find windows to attack and still obviates removal, Shrine can close out in a big way if games go long. Lotus Petal would replace SSG to provide early game acceleration while providing fodder for Blasts/Rebirth. It's more 'dead' in the late game than SSG but it feeds synergies better.
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    For creature removal Volcanic Fallout seems ideal. Can't be countered, instant EOT, hits opponent too so you don't lose much burn saturation.

    The other options I like are Flamebreak or Slagstorm. Both hit x/3s (e.g. Dreadhorde Arcanist) but can be countered and have other drawbacks. Flamebreak misses flyers like Delver, and Slagstorm can't hit both creatures and players at the same time. Getting blown out by a counter seems like a real issue.

    Yeah, Winter Orb can be bad. That's why I only had 3 in. Maybe it needs to be SB. Wasteland seems like going too far off the main plan (e.g. Fireblast gets bad).

    Galvanic requires 3 artifacts for 4 damage but still does 2 damage otherwise. Ghirapur Aether Grid costs 2 more mana and needs 2 artifacts + 2 turns to deal 2 damage (separately, without killing an x/2), 4 turns to deal 4 damage, and does nothing with fewer than 2 artifacts. Tapping Great Furnace and Winter Orb also have drawbacks. Grid has a lot of long-term grind potential but I can't see it having more impact in a short game. SB card vs control?

  8. #28
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    For creature removal Volcanic Fallout seems ideal. Can't be countered, instant EOT, hits opponent too so you don't lose much burn saturation.

    The other options I like are Flamebreak or Slagstorm. Both hit x/3s (e.g. Dreadhorde Arcanist) but can be countered and have other drawbacks. Flamebreak misses flyers like Delver, and Slagstorm can't hit both creatures and players at the same time. Getting blown out by a counter seems like a real issue.

    Yeah, Winter Orb can be bad. That's why I only had 3 in. Maybe it needs to be SB. Wasteland seems like going too far off the main plan (e.g. Fireblast gets bad).

    Galvanic requires 3 artifacts for 4 damage but still does 2 damage otherwise. Ghirapur Aether Grid costs 2 more mana and needs 2 artifacts + 2 turns to deal 2 damage (separately, without killing an x/2), 4 turns to deal 4 damage, and does nothing with fewer than 2 artifacts. Tapping Great Furnace and Winter Orb also have drawbacks. Grid has a lot of long-term grind potential but I can't see it having more impact in a short game. SB card vs control?
    I forgot about the WOrb tap clause, that's a no-no unless I do it only on my opponent's turn (which can be good, but then my opponents can play around it.) I don't think Orb is good enough for that deep of a synergy, either.

    I'll do Galvanic over Lava Spike, especially as it still hits creatures. Good call there. It's above rate if I can turn on metalcraft.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Love it! I might do Pyrostatic Pillar in the board, just because i never grabbed Eidelons. I don't see Astrolabe doing anything beyond draw/fodder for Blasts. I might want some number of Kuldotha Rebirth in place of some number of Fireblast.
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Yeah Astrolabe is just there to cheat up the artifact count. Cantripping for 1 doesn't seem terrible. Another option is Urza's Bauble, which Burn used to run ages ago for "free deck thinning". The problem is you can't get both the thinning and Blast count from Baubles at the same time.

    I like Eidolon in the SB because they'll board out all creature removal and board in artifact hate, but Pillar still works against Storm and spell-heavy decks.

  12. #32
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    Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Yeah Astrolabe is just there to cheat up the artifact count. Cantripping for 1 doesn't seem terrible. Another option is Urza's Bauble, which Burn used to run ages ago for "free deck thinning". The problem is you can't get both the thinning and Blast count from Baubles at the same time.

    I like Eidolon in the SB because they'll board out all creature removal and board in artifact hate, but Pillar still works against Storm and spell-heavy decks.
    I think that the artifacts need to be doing more than just cantripping to make this a valid strategy. I may be wrong and Astrolabe is good enough, but I don't think so. I will likely already have 'dead' artifacts to sac to Blasts with obsolete Vises, an Furnace, or an Ankh/Orb FTW. Sixteen artifacts to sac to the set of Blasts seems like enough. Urza's Bauble seems like the same situation, really. I think any artifacts need to be good on their own and double as fodder for Blasts, not be fodder for the blasts as their primary function. If that were the case I'd probably play something like Ichor Wellspring to get 2 draws out of it. Cursed Scroll seems passable, and Meekstone could do some work.
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