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Thread: New Format announced - Pioneer

  1. #21
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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Someone has pointed out that this might signal that the forthcoming Zendikar 3.0 set might not have fetches in it. Hard to read the signal clearly though. Do they really want to make a set that has banned cards in for this new format right out the gate? I wouldn't think so, but it's not clear.
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  2. #22
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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Mosdern horizon is not legal in that format!!

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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Someone has pointed out that this might signal that the forthcoming Zendikar 3.0 set might not have fetches in it. Hard to read the signal clearly though. Do they really want to make a set that has banned cards in for this new format right out the gate? I wouldn't think so, but it's not clear.
    Wouldn't that then just signal that they're giving up on Modern? Without occasional downward pressure on the markets, it would start to legitimately price children out and leave it as just another old fogey format. Seems like they've already let it grow to the cusp of it anyway with the way the card pool has been selectively refreshed with the Masters series, but there won't be much draw for the cool chase build-around cards if you can't even cobble together a basic manabase. That's what keeps people out of Legacy more than anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  4. #24
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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Wouldn't that then just signal that they're giving up on Modern? Without occasional downward pressure on the markets, it would start to legitimately price children out and leave it as just another old fogey format. Seems like they've already let it grow to the cusp of it anyway with the way the card pool has been selectively refreshed with the Masters series, but there won't be much draw for the cool chase build-around cards if you can't even cobble together a basic manabase. That's what keeps people out of Legacy more than anything.
    Well, I already sort of speculated that, like Legacy (and Vintage before that) the time of Modern was/is/will be limited. That is, because my thesis is that larger card pools are ever more constrictive, over time the notion of the "open format" requires moving to smaller card pools in some intervals. In other words, there must be a culling to "restore" that "open" ideal, because the "open ideal" is not something "natural" arising from the card pool, but is an arbitrary paradigm we intellectually desire from the card pool.

    So, indeed, I do think this might be the beginning of the "sunsetting" of Modern. I don't think they will abandon it, whole-cloth, just like they haven't actually abandoned Legacy or Vintage, but the "support" will wain, ever more, with time. In fact, I'd consider this to be an actual sign that even minus the Reserve List, actual Eternal Formats would be "sunset" as well, perhaps even sooner than they are/were.
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  5. #25
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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by ReAnimator View Post
    Soooooo happy that fetches are banned.

    Interesting to see if DRS ends up overpowered without any good fetches to go with it.
    It did jackshit during its time in Standard, so there's that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Wouldn't that then just signal that they're giving up on Modern? Without occasional downward pressure on the markets, it would start to legitimately price children out and leave it as just another old fogey format. Seems like they've already let it grow to the cusp of it anyway with the way the card pool has been selectively refreshed with the Masters series, but there won't be much draw for the cool chase build-around cards if you can't even cobble together a basic manabase. That's what keeps people out of Legacy more than anything.
    Apparently, Modern right now is more popular than ever before. I doubt they're going to let that cash cow go to waste until they've completely ruined it, like with everything good they come up with (Arena is already on the decline again and trying to compete with MTGO in the numbers of bugs).

  6. #26
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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Apparently, Modern right now is more popular than ever before. I doubt they're going to let that cash cow go to waste until they've completely ruined it, like with everything good they come up with (Arena is already on the decline again and trying to compete with MTGO in the numbers of bugs).
    Well, keep in mind, that I don't surmise that Modern just disappears. Modern takes on the "Legacy" spot in the "team trios" paradigm, so those will be Standard, Pioneer and Modern events. Modern just is the "new" Legacy. It will still get events. Just not as many as Standard and Pioneer, in my estimation. And this will likely take place slowly, over the next 3 years or so.
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  7. #27
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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Vintage/Legacy/Modern would make for an interesting Team Trios event. Maybe for Eternal Weekend.

  8. #28
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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Vintage/Legacy/Modern would make for an interesting Team Trios event. Maybe for Eternal Weekend.
    I think that would be awesome, but hard to say how many would be in for that. I'd love to do something like that (in the Vintage or Legacy seat), but not sure when I could realistically make it to another EW,
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  9. #29

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by ReAnimator View Post
    Soooooo happy that fetches are banned.

    Interesting to see if DRS ends up overpowered without any good fetches to go with it.
    You can still run 8 fetches if you really want.

  10. #30

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, keep in mind, that I don't surmise that Modern just disappears. Modern takes on the "Legacy" spot in the "team trios" paradigm, so those will be Standard, Pioneer and Modern events. Modern just is the "new" Legacy. It will still get events. Just not as many as Standard and Pioneer, in my estimation. And this will likely take place slowly, over the next 3 years or so.
    They could actually make Modern into Legacy minus the RL if they start pushing the envelope with future Modern Horizons sets (i.e. print Wasteland, Daze, FoW, etc. into Modern) and unbannings. If they recreated the Legacy metagame in Modern without $2000 mana bases would people here be interested in playing that format?

    Take a look here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...ed-list-legacy

    This would give you an idea of what they could make the metagame look like. Basically, Legacy but no LED decks, weaker Chalice decks, and more painful manabases.

  11. #31
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    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    They could actually make Modern into Legacy minus the RL if they start pushing the envelope with future Modern Horizons sets (i.e. print Wasteland, Daze, FoW, etc. into Modern) and unbannings. If they recreated the Legacy metagame in Modern without $2000 mana bases would people here be interested in playing that format?
    Well, I certainly don't think that is off the table. In reality, I don't think Wizards actually want Vintage, Legacy, or Modern to "go away" it's just harder and harder to effectively "sculpt" their metagames by putting out prints and reprints specifically for them, while also promoting formats that realistically drive more sales (Limited and Standard). Because you just have super-atavistic cards, like Blood Moon, or Wasteland, for example, that are very constrictive. Or, for that matter, Fetchlands, which were deliberately excised from this new format.

    In fact, I could see your paradigm as a possible next phase, when the pendulum swings back into the reprint paradigm. Which is probably post-Zendikar 3.0, especially if that set does not have Fetches (and I think it is likely that it does not).

    Of course, I could be wrong about anything and everything, I am just trying to be sort of Bayesian here.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  12. #32

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    It did jackshit during its time in Standard, so there's that.


    Apparently, Modern right now is more popular than ever before. I doubt they're going to let that cash cow go to waste until they've completely ruined it, like with everything good they come up with (Arena is already on the decline again and trying to compete with MTGO in the numbers of bugs).
    As goes standard, so goes arena. Because they can't ban Oko and didn't ban the other green garbage, it's going to go down until they ban something else.

  13. #33

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Vintage/Legacy/Modern would make for an interesting Team Trios event. Maybe for Eternal Weekend.
    Vintage/Legacy/Old School would be better :)

  14. #34

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    ... (Arena is already on the decline again and trying to compete with MTGO in the numbers of bugs).
    The fact that Pioneer is better thought out than historic and will be launched first is a sure sign that they have no serious intentions of making Arena anything other than standard. Ultimately, arena players are in larger numbers asking for more than standard and eventually there will be a flow from Arena to MTGO because of this. If that flow is big or small remains to be seen but, if they cannot sort historic it will happen.

    With hindsight, they should have never entertained the idea of historic. They should have removed standard from MTGO (which would mean live human draft in arena would have to exist) and make MTGO the platform for whatever was not standard or sealed. They now have two competing platforms and they cannot even develop one properly, let alone two.

  15. #35

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Someone has pointed out that this might signal that the forthcoming Zendikar 3.0 set might not have fetches in it. Hard to read the signal clearly though. Do they really want to make a set that has banned cards in for this new format right out the gate? I wouldn't think so, but it's not clear.
    I have said for years that fetchland should get axed. It's why Brainstorm is good, it violates the concept of the color pie and makes everything. I think Pioneer has a good chance of succeeding because it doesn't have fetchland in it. If it did, I would have glanced over it.

  16. #36

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    It did jackshit during its time in Standard, so there's that.


    Apparently, Modern right now is more popular than ever before. I doubt they're going to let that cash cow go to waste until they've completely ruined it, like with everything good they come up with (Arena is already on the decline again and trying to compete with MTGO in the numbers of bugs).

    Riotgames just sent me an email about their new Hearthstone/Magic Arena competitor.

  17. #37

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    So is this new format an admission that Modern will just never be a good format so they're starting again?

  18. #38

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    So is this new format an admission that Modern will just never be a good format so they're starting again?
    More like an admission that Hasbro wants more money (to keep the shareholders happy, of course), and Wizards is too stubborn to admit that old Extended was the perfect second format before they ruined it by making it only 4 blocks instead of 6.

    I think the real side effect is that Pioneer will eventually end Legacy GP/SCG events.

  19. #39

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    More like an admission that Hasbro wants more money (to keep the shareholders happy, of course), and Wizards is too stubborn to admit that old Extended was the perfect second format before they ruined it by making it only 4 blocks instead of 6.

    I think the real side effect is that Pioneer will eventually end Legacy GP/SCG events.
    Yeah idk why people think this is a sign that wizards is trying to get rid of modern
    The queue goes Vintage -> Legacy -> Modern -> Standard, so if the GP circuit can only sustain 3 constructed formats and the oldest / high-barrier-to-entry formats get abandoned, inserting Pioneer between Modern and Standard will put Legacy with Vintage in the 'unplayable' camp, not modern
    [it does mean modern is next on the chopping block if we have to do this shuffle again in the next ~5 years, but hopefully not, bc reserved list]

  20. #40

    Re: New Format announced - Pioneer

    Well in the UK Legacy GPs are so rare it makes little difference anyway.

    But from a player perspective, each format offers something different but Modern and Standard are much more linear. An additional linear format would seem to me to only serve to replace one of the other linear formats and since Standard rotates it would make Modern the more likely one to go out of vogue. Legacy is totally different to Modern and attracts different players who won't play Pioneer either.

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