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Thread: Death-Nought

  1. #61
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    Re: Death-Nought

    Remember that Ashiok can be used targeting self = Veil of Summer will not prevent yard exile. Has text vs cards like Goblin Engineer, NO/GSZ, KotR, Gamble/Crop Rot, Infernal Tutor, Firemind's Firesight/Eladmri's Call, SFM/Recruiter. Most importantly, don't ever cut this card/fail to SB in vs Snapcaster value pile.

    Make sure opponents don't forget to follow the rule this PW introduces in paper, or you will also get a GRV.

  2. #62
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    Re: Death-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobitzki View Post
    for reference, here's my list:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2874176#paper

    I really like how light the red splash is, though 1-2 Lightning Bolts over the 2nd Snuff Out and /or the 3rd Daze could be good here. Another close cut was a 1-of Cabal Therapy (over the 3rd Daze) as another Entomb target that works nicely with the Bloodghast. Going down to 3 Birds is another option to squeeze in the Therapy, a Bolt or maindeck Brazen Boi. Needs testing to figure out these adjustments.
    I like that tech. I like how the Entomb package and Thought Scour let you play a grindier game and be less all-in on Buried Alive.

    The 1-of Royal Scions looks strong, with all abilities relevant.

    Is Bloodghast any good though? I find it underwhelming in other decks. Is there any better recursive target?

  3. #63
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    Re: Death-Nought

    I think Gamble could be interesting, but I don't like Entomb over BA. If you're doing Entomb there is a better deck. The reason Phoenix is good is because you can BA and have 3 of them. Alone, a 3/2 flyer that takes effort is just a worse Delver. As far as Bloodghast goes I wouldn't play it without BA, Young Pyro, and Cabal Therapy. Bloodghast is significantly worse than Phoenix in combat and doesn't allow blocking. Dark Ritual supports the 3drops in the sideboard, so dropping that seems bad as well.

    Grinding tech comes out of the sideboard, in my humble opinion. Yp,.therapy, bitterblossom, engineer, borrower.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Death-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I think Gamble could be interesting, but I don't like Entomb over BA. If you're doing Entomb there is a better deck. The reason Phoenix is good is because you can BA and have 3 of them. Alone, a 3/2 flyer that takes effort is just a worse Delver. As far as Bloodghast goes I wouldn't play it without BA, Young Pyro, and Cabal Therapy. Bloodghast is significantly worse than Phoenix in combat and doesn't allow blocking. Dark Ritual supports the 3drops in the sideboard, so dropping that seems bad as well.
    I'm going to push back a bit there. I think you could take a similar critique to BA: It's a 3cmc spell + set-up that aims to win over a couple of turns through combat. The immediate competition for it is Doomsday and Show&Tell, two "this resolves I win" buttons. I've played the Grixis Buried Alive version myself and, boy, what a blast to swoop in 3 Birds; but getting your BA countered is just lights out. You also don't have any other (MD) use for your Rituals in this Shadow version (such as T1 Bob + discard), so you're basically reduced to an underpowered A+B(+3rd spell!) combo. Meanwhile, the only Phoenix deck that has continued to show up at all over the past year is the UR version, which is all redundancy with 12 flyers and 16 (!) cantrips. The point being, it's no effort at all to put in a Phoenix. Or put differently, the Birds are not worse than Delver, Entombs just act as Delvers #5-8. So yes, resolving Entomb for Griselbrand is obviously more powerful, but unlike in Reanimator, when they Force your Entomb in a Phoenix deck, you just go on about your business and keep playing tempo. Correctly speaking, opponents should be boarding Forces out vs us. The Entombs are like the Lootings the UR list, just guaranteed to hit. Phoenix didn't need Buried Alive to dominate Modern until Looting got axed.

    Gamble: In a non-black Phoenix list I would also like one as an extra copy of Looting, but Gamble over Entomb here doesn't make any sense to me.

    As for the Bloodghast: Turning a topdecked Entomb into a hasty 2/1 in the mid-game seems ... fine. I'm not arguing to play it over Phoenix. You could also run a single copy of Creeping Chill for extra reach instead, but that's even cuter. Ultimately, all this is going to need testing.

    What bothers me most is that it makes too much sense to run Gut Shots, but I really want a couple of Bolts.

  5. #65
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    Re: Death-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobitzki View Post
    I'm going to push back a bit there. I think you could take a similar critique to BA: It's a 3cmc spell + set-up that aims to win over a couple of turns through combat. The immediate competition for it is Doomsday and Show&Tell, two "this resolves I win" buttons. I've played the Grixis Buried Alive version myself and, boy, what a blast to swoop in 3 Birds; but getting your BA countered is just lights out. You also don't have any other (MD) use for your Rituals in this Shadow version (such as T1 Bob + discard), so you're basically reduced to an underpowered A+B(+3rd spell!) combo. Meanwhile, the only Phoenix deck that has continued to show up at all over the past year is the UR version, which is all redundancy with 12 flyers and 16 (!) cantrips. The point being, it's no effort at all to put in a Phoenix. Or put differently, the Birds are not worse than Delver, Entombs just act as Delvers #5-8. So yes, resolving Entomb for Griselbrand is obviously more powerful, but unlike in Reanimator, when they Force your Entomb in a Phoenix deck, you just go on about your business and keep playing tempo. Correctly speaking, opponents should be boarding Forces out vs us. The Entombs are like the Lootings the UR list, just guaranteed to hit. Phoenix didn't need Buried Alive to dominate Modern until Looting got axed.

    Gamble: In a non-black Phoenix list I would also like one as an extra copy of Looting, but Gamble over Entomb here doesn't make any sense to me.

    As for the Bloodghast: Turning a topdecked Entomb into a hasty 2/1 in the mid-game seems ... fine. I'm not arguing to play it over Phoenix. You could also run a single copy of Creeping Chill for extra reach instead, but that's even cuter. Ultimately, all this is going to need testing.

    What bothers me most is that it makes too much sense to run Gut Shots, but I really want a couple of Bolts.
    Those are all fair points. I forget that the deck can just naturally spam 3 spells and get a Phoenix, with Entomb being one of the spells. The best part is that the deck can just do it's thing and be good, without any real extra work. I'm still sold on the BA plan for now, but I'll have to keep tabs and see where your experience takes you. Hopefully you continue to post here, I'd love to hear back.

    I don't think Bolts are too difficult to put in, I might be completely wrong, but it shouldn't be too much of a stretch. It's basically sacrificing the 'free' nature of 2 Gut Shots, but with the cantrips it shouldn't be hard to work the numbers around a little. Your point about having so many cantrips is definitely valid, I have 9 in the below list but I'm feeling like there is always justification for more.

    Here is my starting list (based on the primer you posted, but I'm also adding Lightning Bolt to those flex slots mentioned.)
    4x Delver
    4x Shadow
    4x Phoenix
    4x Bstorm
    4x Ponder
    1x Preordain
    4x Ritual
    4x BA
    4x Daze
    3x Force
    4x TSeize
    2x Gut Shot
    2x Bolt
    4x Delta
    3x Tarn
    1x Marsh Flats
    1x Misty
    3x Watery Grave
    1x Steam Vents
    1x Blood Crypt
    1x Island
    1x Swamp

    In this setup, Gut Shot allows for more explosive turns 1-2. However, I wouldn't blind shoot a DR > BA without protection, either in the form of a preemptive Thoughtseize t2 or a Daze/Force in hand to protect it.

    Just a thought: if you're playing Entomb, maybe a better card than Dark Ritual would be Manamorphose. It's another 'free' spell that can turbocharge Phoenix turns. It also shores up one of the worst matchups in Moon Stompy.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  6. #66
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    Re: Death-Nought

    So I was a little disappointed after testing the list. I really wanted it to be a more combo-ish deck and it really just turned into a delver variant with more, uh, variance.

    So I'm back on Dreadnought. Looking to make a white splash, for a minimum of Enlightened Tutor x2. Orzhov Charm is on my mind as well, which was suggested by Fox.

    Short list of Etutor targets:

    Phyrexian dreadnought (of course...)
    Scroll of Fate
    Engineered Explosives
    Standstill
    Tidehollow Sculler
    Detention Sphere
    Pithing Needle
    Crucible of Worlds


    Shirt list of white cards to splash:

    Swords to Plowshares
    Orzhov Charm
    Disenchant
    Lingering Souls
    Stoneforge Mystic + equips (5-6 cards minimum)
    Sevinne's Reclamation
    Teferi, Time Raveler


    Any thoughts are welcome! Annnnnnd....go!
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

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