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Thread: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

  1. #161

    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post


    Dryad of Ilysian Grove 2G
    Enchantment Creature - Nymph

    You may play an additional land on each of your turns.

    Lands you control have all basic land types in addition to other types.

    2/4

    Seems more usable than the Dinosaur who also explores. Are there any decks where the basic type stuff is relevant? Seems pretty good with Glacial Chasm + Loam for continued replaying each turn while Chasm can also create mana. But maybe that's just too cute.
    I think you run that along WITH the exploration dinosaur in a 2G shell. Throw in the Crucible snake and actual Crucible and you've got redundancy on your combo for days, especially with GSZ. Toss in the Land search Elf and Nylea's Intervention and you've got a pretty decent land control shell with a combo finish. Say...

    Dudes - 20
    4x Exploration Dinosaur
    4x Dryad of Explore
    4x Crucible Snake
    4x Land Search Elf
    4x ESG

    Artifacts - 8
    4x Trinisphere
    4x Crucible of Worlds

    Search - 8
    4x Nylea's Intervention
    4x GSZ

    Lands - 28
    1x Glacial Chasm
    1x Dark Depths
    1x Thespian's Stage
    1x Cryptic Cavern
    1x Blast Zone
    1x Tabernacle
    4x City of Traitors
    3x Ancient Tomb
    4x Wasteland
    1x Bojuka Bog
    10x Forest

    I dunno, that's just a rough cut, but it seems like it has potential now that the search pieces have all been upgraded. Honestly, with the new "all lands type" dryad, maybe Valakut is a better/more flexible win con than Stage/Depths.

  2. #162
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers



    Elder Giants!

  3. #163

    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Elder Giants!
    Yog-Sothoth basically.

  4. #164

    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post


    Elder Giants!
    Is that escape thing gonna open another run of graveyard shenanigans with consequent bannings?

  5. #165
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    It's like forced evoke. you can do something pretty janky and run this dude alongside Sundial of the Infinite or stifle (and thus dreadnaught as well)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  6. #166
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Looks like they finally made a UG card that can reasonably compete with Goyf (as a big beater), and more importantly versus Goyf (head to head). That said, it's not really a legitimate competitor were DRS still legal; and the green and black modes of DRS kind of need to exist to police legacy. Only a matter of time before these effects show back up, so Uro will only ever exist on a timer.

    Still Uro has the mandatory 6 power and ability to play other card types without growing Goyf out of range (due to escape exiling), which have classically plagued any attempt to out-Goyf a Goyf.

    There was some talk a few posts back about Haktos and manifest, but Uro is a much better example of a card that plays nicely with Dreadnought things. While Uro is fine alone as a 3 mana basically uncounterable investment, he gets significantly better with a shell that can stock the yard, particularly in the context of a double duty card like Sundial.

    As long as Oko is legal though, you'd need to bend over backwards to find a deck which actively does not want Oko before Uro. That deck kinda needs to be UG only, as Oko only fails when you don't have a 3rd color to kill the occasional 3/3s you'd be donating to opponents.

  7. #167
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    It‘s also another x/1 human

    ...creature-feature deck
    Looks like you found the deck. Humans could run it at the top end. The colored mana is inconsequential as they run rainbowlands and Vial. It also makes more sense for them to run it over TNN due to the creature type. Most other decks could just run TNN.

  8. #168
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post


    Elder Giants!
    2 Explores!

    6 mana on turn 3? 2 explores!

  9. #169
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    2 Explores!

    6 mana on turn 3? 2 explores!
    Yeah that kinda reinforces the whole belonging to Dreadnought thing, since Stifle combos with Lotus Field, and Uro combos with Lotus Field on the other side (tap 3 play it, dump Lotus into play and sac 2 lands into watch me escape).

  10. #170

    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    PLay it, let the good trigger go off first.
    Dump your lotus field into play
    Then, activate your sundial of the infinite. exile both triggers.

    It also works with Illusionary mask because it replaces the attack with turning it up and attacking!

  11. #171
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    PLay it, let the good trigger go off first.
    Dump your lotus field into play
    Then, activate your sundial of the infinite. exile both triggers.

    It also works with Illusionary mask because it replaces the attack with turning it up and attacking!
    No need to exile both the triggers, just spam the dude for 3 mana and dump Field into play and be 2 cards closer to escape. No need to add in Sundial there, but yes it does augment it.

    On Illusionary Mask, a 2/2 declares an attack not the 6/6. You would have missed 2 triggers.

  12. #172

    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    No need to exile both the triggers, just spam the dude for 3 mana and dump Field into play and be 2 cards closer to escape. No need to add in Sundial there, but yes it does augment it.

    On Illusionary Mask, a 2/2 declares an attack not the 6/6. You would have missed 2 triggers.
    Sure there's no need to do it, but since you're already cheesing it...

    The declaration of attackers is done in a very specific order as defined in rule 508.1. Tapping (508.1f) occurs before triggers trigger (508.1m). The reason why Mask gets around a card like Ensnaring Bridge (aka, a 2/2 declares the attack) is because such restrictions are checked before tapping (508.1c).
    The tapping is what sets off Mask's replacement effect.

  13. #173
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Sure there's no need to do it, but since you're already cheesing it...

    The declaration of attackers is done in a very specific order as defined in rule 508.1. Tapping (508.1f) occurs before triggers trigger (508.1m). The reason why Mask gets around a card like Ensnaring Bridge (aka, a 2/2 declares the attack) is because such restrictions are checked before tapping (508.1c).
    The tapping is what sets off Mask's replacement effect.
    Yes, but at that point it‘s too late for the card that declared the attack was a 2/2 without text. There is no sequence by which the 6/6 side can be considered to have been face up when an attack was declared, thus no trigger.

  14. #174

    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Yes, but at that point it‘s too late for the card that declared the attack was a 2/2 without text. There is no sequence by which the 6/6 side can be considered to have been face up when an attack was declared, thus no trigger.
    You attempted to tap a two two. You replaced that event by turning it face up and tapping it. Later the game will check to see if triggers should have triggered and when that check happens it's face up and has a trigger to trigger.

  15. #175
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers



    3 mana flusterstorm that includes creatures and abilities?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  16. #176

    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by aedemiel View Post
    Yog-Sothoth basically.
    pffff not even close

  17. #177
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post


    3 mana flusterstorm that includes creatures and abilities?
    That card is... very interesting. Is this the first time an effect counters something without targeting it?

  18. #178
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    You attempted to tap a two two. You replaced that event by turning it face up and tapping it. Later the game will check to see if triggers should have triggered and when that check happens it's face up and has a trigger to trigger.
    The attempting to tap doesn‘t really matter here, b/c the only reason you‘re tapping is that you‘re electing to declare an attack. So what declared the attack: a 2/2. What will be in combat from that point will be a 6/6 that is simply in combat but did not declare the attack.

    I get what you‘re saying with the rules, but it really comes down to what does a “when/whenever x attacks...“ triggers really mean, and how they qualify getting triggered. Not being face-up when an attack was actually declared (by a player declaring “this 2/2 as my attacker“) means they didn‘t declare the attack with a 6/6, so they won‘t be eligible for the trigger that comes with a 6/6.

  19. #179
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    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post
    That card is... very interesting. Is this the first time an effect counters something without targeting it?
    Summary Dismissal, Time Stop, Glorious End, Sundial of the Infinite. Technically Nether Void also qualifies.

  20. #180

    Re: Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    The attempting to tap doesn‘t really matter here, b/c the only reason you‘re tapping is that you‘re electing to declare an attack. So what declared the attack: a 2/2. What will be in combat from that point will be a 6/6 that is simply in combat but did not declare the attack.

    I get what you‘re saying with the rules, but it really comes down to what does a “when/whenever x attacks...“ triggers really mean, and how they qualify getting triggered. Not being face-up when an attack was actually declared (by a player declaring “this 2/2 as my attacker“) means they didn‘t attack with a 6/6, so they won‘t be eligible for the trigger that comes with a 6/6.
    But that's not what happened. To declare an attacker requires you to
    508.1. First, the active player declares attackers. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. To declare attackers, the active player follows the steps below, in order. If at any point during the declaration of attackers, the active player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the declaration is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the declaration (see rule 722, “Handling Illegal Actions”).
    You're under the impression that declaring attackers is a thing done and then the game does stuff when the rules say that declaring an attacker is a process. You check the object all throughout this process. When you started the process it was a 2/2 to get under bridge, but by the time you're checking for triggers the process has made it a 6/6 with abilities.
    The tapping is essential to making this work, because the order of steps matter.

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