Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910
Results 181 to 196 of 196

Thread: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

  1. #181

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    They just did a quasi-masters set with Modern Horizons, which included a ton of reprints for eternal formats. Call it whatever you want, they will continue to reprint eternal playable cards. Mixing it with new cards like this makes it a better prospect after exhausting the reprints-only model that wasn't selling masters sets. They didn't *have* to stop printing masters sets; they chose to stop because it wasn't a workable model anymore.
    Didn't you just say we should be using this as the benchmark?

  2. #182

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    That's exactly the problem.

    Legacy and Vintage are perceived as formats that are inaccessible due to obvious price and barrier of entry costs. That is literally what's killing both of those formats, but the true culprit is the Reserved List (and to a lesser extent Wizards showcasing these formats). My point is that they are official formats. But they are clearly put on the shelf in favor of other formats like Standard, Modern and Pioneer. That's the part that's unacceptable. These formats should have equal footing from a support perspective and be economically feasible for newer players to play. That's the whole crux of this discussion, thread and situation.

    The fact that someone new that would want to play in these formats can't play simply because they check the price of the most popular cards in those formats and sees an absolutely egregious price tag coupled with no support from the top is incredibly unattractive. But that's not the player's fault - that's Wizards' fault because the player has the intent to want to play - but can't afford the ridiculous price tag for the cards. The only way to foster a larger community is to make the formats accessible. And if they don't see these formats as accessible or profitable without destroying the RL or making drastic changes, then just get it over with and end them because clearly that's what everyone sees coming anyhow.
    You fail to understand the mythos around Vintage. The unobtainability of the power 9, and especially the card to rule all cards, Black Lotus, instills aspiration and sparks the dreams, hopes and imagination of younger hearts. It is in part _because_ of this mythos, that standard becomes comparably economically attractive and players commit years of their lives collecting. If you compare Standard to Legend of the Five Rings, or video games and board games, it's still a luxury. Keyforge is no more expensive than 12,- for a prebuilt deck.

  3. #183
    Site Contributor
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,375

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Nah, I would have loved to get a Lotus for years but it's way too much money to justify, especially when you factor in how much you can use it. This 'unobtainability' is very real. Sure you may be able to sell it for more down the line, and you 'lose' money by buying and playing standard, but you get to play the game then. That's what people want.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  4. #184
    Foreign Black Border
    Lord_Mcdonalds's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2012
    Location

    Houston, Texas
    Posts

    747

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Silly to assume people actually want to play magic, clearly the appeal is buying and selling playing cards.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I still have a strong suspicion that if 'Thalia, Heretic Cathar' had been named 'Frank, Heretic Cathar', people would be a lot more skeptical of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goin Aggro View Post
    Ugh, there he goes again, talking about the girlfriend. We get it dude.

  5. #185

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    We can say all day long that Pioneer is designed so people can use outmoded cards from Standard's past, but it will also have the effect of pulling the resources/energy away from Legacy (which has a different card pool demand, for the most part.) They are pushing so much new shit that they are hoping all the old shit drops in relevance, in order to make the old shit more affordable for the stable base of people that want to play it. No growth, no shrinking, stable.
    Pioneer is actually going to pull more from Modern than Legacy if designed properly, because it will be a "fair" alternative to Modern and be far more accessible as well.

    I think everyone here is thinking that Legacy is some big thing, and in the world of Magic it really isn't. As stated before, SCG kept Legacy in the SCG Tour for far longer than they really should have because they cared about the format and really could have replaced it with something like Pauper a while ago. (Modern will potentially face the same fate if Pioneer proves popular enough.)

  6. #186

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    You fail to understand the mythos around Vintage. The unobtainability of the power 9, and especially the card to rule all cards, Black Lotus, instills aspiration and sparks the dreams, hopes and imagination of younger hearts. It is in part _because_ of this mythos, that standard becomes comparably economically attractive and players commit years of their lives collecting. If you compare Standard to Legend of the Five Rings, or video games and board games, it's still a luxury. Keyforge is no more expensive than 12,- for a prebuilt deck.
    I really don't. I play Vintage and have for over twenty years ("Type I").

    I think you're failing to understand the whole of this discussion. Again - these are sanctioned, official-constructed formats. They are apart of the Wizards Magic: the Gathering portfolio of organized tournament play. There are practically zero opportunities to play sanctioned Vintage anymore. Legacy is well on its way. The point is that if these formats are part of the portfolio, they should be accessible for newer players.

    I'm not saying reprint the Power 9. What I am saying is, at a minimum, reprint dual lands so people can play Legacy. Or ban everything on the RL. Vintage is a whole other discussion because of the step-up on pricing. Legacy to that degree is in a "safer" place because the most expensive card legal in the format is still thousands of dollars cheaper than the most expensive Vintage-legal card.

    EDIT: Just for objectivity's sake - I have a set of Beta duals and Power, so I'm not being biased. I actually wouldn't give two shits if my power or duals tanked. Do you have any idea how giddy I'd be if my LGS nailed 20-30 for Vintage (sanctioned) every week? I would absolutely take that loss over the inability to use my cards any day of the week.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  7. #187
    Member
    Airwave's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2013
    Location

    Netherlands
    Posts

    178

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Pioneer is actually going to pull more from Modern than Legacy if designed properly, because it will be a "fair" alternative to Modern and be far more accessible as well.

    I think everyone here is thinking that Legacy is some big thing, and in the world of Magic it really isn't. As stated before, SCG kept Legacy in the SCG Tour for far longer than they really should have because they cared about the format and really could have replaced it with something like Pauper a while ago. (Modern will potentially face the same fate if Pioneer proves popular enough.)
    Exactly this. My hope for legacy is that it will be survive thanks to an influx of disappointed modern players. Sure, most of them will probably turn to pioneer in the end, but you don't need that many people to keep legacy running.

    Of course this is on the assumption that people will like legacy better than modern (which I think is true ) and that prices won't go through the roof like in vintage.

  8. #188

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    I think everyone here is thinking that Legacy is some big thing, and in the world of Magic it really isn't. As stated before, SCG kept Legacy in the SCG Tour for far longer than they really should have because they cared about the format and really could have replaced it with something like Pauper a while ago. (Modern will potentially face the same fate if Pioneer proves popular enough.)
    You're spot on, and that's the problem: Legacy is not some big thing - but it's not Legacy's fault. If you fix what's broken with the format (and with Vintage), it will be a big thing. This argument goes in circles because people are resigning themselves to the format's insignificance compared to other formats, when clearly a lot of people argue that Legacy is the best format and most fun, it's just too expensive to get into.

    Again - that's not the format's fault, it's the fault of the R.L. and Wizards just shelving these older formats because they don't care. And therein lies the problem and why something needs to be done.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  9. #189

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
    Exactly this. My hope for legacy is that it will be survive thanks to an influx of disappointed modern players. Sure, most of them will probably turn to pioneer in the end, but you don't need that many people to keep legacy running.
    i like your thoughts on this. i almost beg people to come play legacy and even offer to build decks for people as long as they show.
    we even allow proxies. even if we don't get 8 people we still just play 3-4 rounds; just good enough to show...

  10. #190

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    i like your thoughts on this. i almost beg people to come play legacy and even offer to build decks for people as long as they show.
    we even allow proxies
    You shouldn't have to do that, though.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  11. #191

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    You shouldn't have to do that, though.
    without a single doubt, you're right. at the LGS, i started saturday night legacy almost ten years ago...
    i still feel like it's my responsibility and will continue to rally the troops as long as i can. see you tomorrow night?

  12. #192

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    without a single doubt, you're right. at the LGS, i started saturday night legacy almost ten years ago...
    i still feel like it's my responsibility and will continue to rally the troops as long as i can. see you tomorrow night?
    I'm down.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  13. #193

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post

    EDIT: Just for objectivity's sake - I have a set of Beta duals and Power, so I'm not being biased. I actually wouldn't give two shits if my power or duals tanked. Do you have any idea how giddy I'd be if my LGS nailed 20-30 for Vintage (sanctioned) every week? I would absolutely take that loss over the inability to use my cards any day of the week.

    Then you don't have to play, you're already a winner :)

  14. #194

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Then you don't have to play, you're already a winner :)
    I just want to play, man. A lot of people do. I'm just so tired of Legacy getting kicked to the curb and the stigma it gets as a "dying" format. All of it is bullshit. The format isn't really dying in the sense it isn't popular, because if it were, it'd be long gone. It's being hurt though in the sense that it's pricing people out because of the god damn Reserve List.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  15. #195

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    It's being hurt though in the sense that it's pricing people out because of the god damn Reserve List.
    Legacy is being hurt by the RL but there's also a subtle issue that i've encountered many times before when offering to build decks for people.
    here's me talking to mtg players at the LGS: "Hi. Would you play legacy if I build a deck for you?"
    their response: "Sorry, I can't afford to play legacy."

    translation: i don't want to get my butt kicked playing legacy, i'd rather just play the format i'm good at

  16. #196

    Re: No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    Legacy is being hurt by the RL but there's also a subtle issue that i've encountered many times before when offering to build decks for people.
    it usually goes like this when talking to people at the LGS: "Hi. Would you play legacy if I build a deck for you?" "Sorry, I can't afford to play legacy."

    translation: i don't want to get my butt kicked playing legacy, i'd rather just play the format i'm good at
    The issue is focus. Wizards is going to continue to focus on newer stuff rather than older stuff. And that's just a really sad reality. The problem I have is that the formats *exist* and are being left to die. That's the biggest thing for me. It's black and white: get rid of it, or support it. They cannot keep going like this thinking it will be fine, because it won't.

    They have to do something about this.
    The Night HE Came Home.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 5 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 2 guests)

  1. Hanni
  2. Michael Keller
  3. ronco