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Thread: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

  1. #61
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    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    you can add four copies of battle of wits and now you have TWO legacy decks.
    i don't know why you are being so obtuse that the "best players" have to have expensive decks and that the RL is why we can't have nice things.
    your entire point keeps locking you into "it has to be a sanctioned event" for my premise to be relevant.

    my post (which you are deliberately parsing) about buying guardian beast is more of a lark because the deck will probably be bad (i'm a good player?)

    $400 for dark depths hogaak with shocks can win or borrow cards or play where proxies are allowed or on MTGO or cockatrice?

    and i can play my bad or good deck (i can't tell) with 4 proxy guardian beasts.


  2. #62

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    The 40% who can't afford a $400 expense that I mentioned right after the words you fixated on. Read the whole post next time, k?
    And amazing how you're using a deck that you admit is an inferior archetype, and you built it bad (no forces?) As evidence that anyone can save their way into legacy.
    Basic lands are legacy legal and free anyone can build this lands brew I have that uses discount lands. I call it "basic lands dot dec" oh! And if you have all the pieces you can add four copies of battle of wits and now you have TWO legacy decks.
    Yeah, the "40%" that I was obviously indicating I belong to.

    I said that my deck isn't Delver. I'm playing 4 Forces of Vigor in my sideboard, the only Forces that matter in a Manaless Dredge deck. Also, I wasn't using Manaless as an example of a deck that I could buy by saving up for it. I was clearly saying that although I am quite poor, I can still save up to buy a Legacy deck (using $400 as a threshold in response to your post).

    I guess "reading the whole post" (if you even did that) doesn't include understanding it or not coming across like a jackass.

  3. #63
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    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Mike the baseline I'm trying to find stems from the common argument I hear that's played out here in as it has before, basically reading like this:

    M: "I want to play Legacy, but the Decks are TOO expensive! $X for a deck? Ridiculous!
    B: "Well here is a sample deck that did okay, it costs much less at $Y and you can improve it over time"
    M: "$Y!?! You got to be kidding me, that's crazy!"
    B: "Okay well here is a budget deck that is only $Z"
    M: "Get out of here with $Z, I don't have that kind of money!"

    On and on.
    If the number gets all the way down to zero, then well there's always Cockatrice.
    But guys, SANCTIONED, they say.
    Okay well, so what is the number?

    If it's a reasonable budget; okay, let's talk.
    But if the demands are to play an eternal format for loose change, I'm not sure there is a discussion to be had.

    So it's just an attempt to break they cycle of "guess my finances" and cut straight to tangible working numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  4. #64

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Couldn't tell you. I guess it comes down to what people are willing to pay in a similar way to Modern and what their economic status is. I think a Legacy deck featuring multiple dual lands and overall deck cost hitting $3-4K is pretty absurd when you consider the huge majority of that cost...is on...lands. But a RL abolition, assuming it drops the price of duals, could drop the price of those decks in half - maybe more.

    I honestly think that it depends on what you're building and what you can afford personally.

  5. #65

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    It's not only a question of being poor. I think it is also a question of putting that much money into a game.
    Any normal person who doesn't know TCG's would probably be amazed by the amount of money we put into it especially knowing that the product can be reprinted for a tiny amount of money...
    There is probably a virtual line that some people will not cross in order to play a game.
    I mean, I have the money to buy any legacy deck, but i'm just reluctant to spend so much money while we're trying to be reasonnable when buying stuff for the house for example.
    If duals were available at 20 or 40 a piece, that would be another story.
    I agree with a lot of what you're saying. While playing a format like the vacuum cleaner that is Standard will probably be more expensive over time, if you want to play Legacy (assuming you're using real cards) you have to throw down more money up front. But there are several cheap ways to try out Legacy or a specific deck (Cockatrice, Xmage, proxies), and if you like what you see you can make the investment. Honestly I think of this as a basic quality of the format.

  6. #66
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    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Couldn't tell you. I guess it comes down to what people are willing to pay in a similar way to Modern and what their economic status is. I think a Legacy deck featuring multiple dual lands and overall deck cost hitting $3-4K is pretty absurd when you consider the huge majority of that cost...is on...lands. But a RL abolition, assuming it drops the price of duals, could drop the price of those decks in half - maybe more.

    I honestly think that it depends on what you're building and what you can afford personally.
    Well not you specifically.

    You and I have sat at events where you'll overhear a conversation between some kids trading around their draft pulls and lamenting that some card is 4 bucks now; at the same time another group is talking about how they got a good deal on a foil textless Gaea's Cradle, only $1,400. The two worlds are so fart apart yet somehow still connected by this silly card game.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  7. #67

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Couldn't tell you. I guess it comes down to what people are willing to pay in a similar way to Modern and what their economic status is. I think a Legacy deck featuring multiple dual lands and overall deck cost hitting $3-4K is pretty absurd when you consider the huge majority of that cost...is on...lands. But a RL abolition, assuming it drops the price of duals, could drop the price of those decks in half - maybe more.

    I honestly think that it depends on what you're building and what you can afford personally.
    What's the relevance of them being lands?

    I see similar discussions among standard players, especially on Arena, saying "I can't believe I have to spend rare wildcards on lands". But lands are probably the most fundamental part of a deck and the most flexible cards. If you're gonna spend on anything, good land should be the thing you're more willing to spend money on than any of the other stuff which is usually more limited in application.

  8. #68

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    Yeah, the "40%" that I was obviously indicating I belong to.
    So it't's just a classic FYGM? K.
    I said that my deck isn't Delver. I'm playing 4 Forces of Vigor in my sideboard, the only Forces that matter in a Manaless Dredge deck. Also, I wasn't using Manaless as an example of a deck that I could buy by saving up for it. I was clearly saying that although I am quite poor, I can still save up to buy a Legacy deck (using $400 as a threshold in response to your post).
    "I said my deck isn't the good deck, and the only forces I'm playing aren't the necessary "of will", but let me tell you how you're just not saving money right!"
    I guess "reading the whole post" (if you even did that) doesn't include understanding it or not coming across like a jackass.
    Post shit get hit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  9. #69

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    i don't know why you are being so obtuse that the "best players" have to have expensive decks and that the RL is why we can't have nice things.
    If you're really going to make me defend "good players play good decks" then just use the ignore button and save yourself the effort.
    your entire point keeps locking you into "it has to be a sanctioned event" for my premise to be relevant.
    My premise is that in a discussion about reprinted cards we should only talk about real cards. Yes.
    and i can play my bad or good deck (i can't tell) with 4 proxy guardian beasts.
    Why are you even posting about card prices if you don't actually buy cards?

  10. #70

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    So it't's just a classic FYGM? K.

    "I said my deck isn't the good deck, and the only forces I'm playing aren't the necessary "of will", but let me tell you how you're just not saving money right!"

    Post shit get hit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    So... let me get this straight, you're:

    1. Not even going to acknowledge that I refuted your point.

    2. Saying that there is only one good deck in Legacy.

    3. Telling me that Force of Will is necessary in Manaless Dredge.

    4. Finding the concept of "saving money" to be ridiculous.

    5. Completely validating my first impression of you by acting like a total clown.

  11. #71

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    So... let me get this straight, you're:

    1. Not even going to acknowledge that I refuted your point.

    2. Saying that there is only one good deck in Legacy.

    3. Telling me that Force of Will is necessary in Manaless Dredge.

    4. Finding the concept of "saving money" to be ridiculous.

    5. Completely validating my first impression of you by acting like a total clown.
    1. No you didn't.

    2. No I didn't.

    3. It's better with it.

    4. No I didn't.

    5. Don't care.

  12. #72

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    1. No you didn't.

    2. No I didn't.

    3. It's better with it.

    4. No I didn't.

    5. Don't care.
    So, "nuh uh."

    You, sir, are obviously a paragon of enlightening, civil conversation.

    I look forward to our many future interactions, which will no doubt be likened by internet historians to exceedingly well played games of chess.

  13. #73

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    So, "nuh uh."

    You, sir, are obviously a paragon of enlightening, civil conversation.

    I look forward to our many future interactions, which will no doubt be likened by internet historians to exceedingly well played games of chess.
    Just putting in the same effort you did.

  14. #74
    bruizar
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    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    If the main case is duals, then first determine the % loss between the delta of original duals vs shock duals for each matchup. Certain metagames lend themselves well for shock duals, such as the current one which is very heavy on combo. Burn is nowhere to be seen with Oko/Food around and Death & Taxes got royally screwed.

    Ancient Tomb is played in A LOT of legacy decks, and it too deals 2 damage. Yes, it is used for specific game plans, but the damage is the same. The question becomes, do you really need original duals for your deck? Play a match 50 to a 100 times with OG duals and shock duals and compare.

  15. #75

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Just putting in the same effort you did.
    Ah, a scathing retort!

    You once again demonstrate your boundless wit and a depth of thought that is nigh unrivaled, even among the fabled users of r/mtglegacy!

    Touché, sir, touché!

  16. #76

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    Ah, a scathing retort!

    You once again demonstrate your boundless wit and a depth of thought that is nigh unrivaled, even among the fabled users of r/mtglegacy!

    Touché, sir, touché!
    Man, am I good at this or what.

  17. #77

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Man, am I good at this or what.
    If, with so little effort, a living legend like yourself can impart such deep wisdom to those of us clearly functioning miles below your hallowed personage in the mental realm, then I say:

    Yes, indeed! You are good at this!

  18. #78

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    What's the relevance of them being lands?

    I see similar discussions among standard players, especially on Arena, saying "I can't believe I have to spend rare wildcards on lands". But lands are probably the most fundamental part of a deck and the most flexible cards. If you're gonna spend on anything, good land should be the thing you're more willing to spend money on than any of the other stuff which is usually more limited in application.
    Lands are required to play Magic games - for the most part. They’re an essential part of optimal deck building. Duals are synonymous with Legacy and Vintage.

    Dropping ten or fifteen bucks a shock to play Modern versus 400 for a land in Legacy is a huge problem.

  19. #79

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    Yes, indeed! You are good at this!
    ty

  20. #80

    Re: Abolish the Reserve List Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    ty
    You are certainly most welcome.

    Although truly it is I, sir, who should be thanking you. Not only for your incredible insight, but also for the amazingly cerebral and well thought out manner in which you have delivered your responses. You honor me.

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