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Thread: Escape Brain Freeze

  1. #341
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Lava Snacks View Post
    Good work, guys

    Hahaha, yes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  2. #342
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Lava Snacks View Post
    Good work, guys

    I guess I won't be picking up those foils after the volc... Oh well.

  3. #343
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Three different builds of Underworld Breach were featured on camera last night at the Legacy weekly at Mox Boarding House in Seattle. Round 1, Round 2, and Round 4.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/542950125

  4. #344

    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I went 4-1 yesterday.
    The Stompy match was the most memorable
    G1 OTP - I was about to go off turn 3 OTP with EOT ETutor until he casts turn 2 Karn. Panicked. Cracked a Lotus Petal to Brainstorm failing to find a counter. He searched for ramp, telegraphing Lattice next turn, so I had a 1-turn clock. EOT ETutored for Breach anyway to reshuffle. Cantripped again finding Burning Wish. Burning Wish for Eye of Nowhere stalls Karn for a turn, but Lattice puts me on a clock, so I had to do it all this turn. I played out both LEDs and thought I saw a line where I played Breach -> cracked both LEDs for RRRUUU -> escape Burning Wish -> Eye the Karn -> escape Brain Freeze... until I remembered Karn shuts off LED too. I scoop to Lattice.
    Hmm if I read it properly you played the wish twice hmm nozt possible ^^ exiles itself on resolve :)

    And to those playing Eye of Nowhere --> consider playing Consign / Oblivion --> The bounce land I think doesnt matter much and its a wishable instant !

  5. #345
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by FFreak View Post
    Hmm if I read it properly you played the wish twice hmm nozt possible ^^ exiles itself on resolve :)

    And to those playing Eye of Nowhere --> consider playing Consign / Oblivion --> The bounce land I think doesnt matter much and its a wishable instant !
    I played the Burning Wish 0 times!

    I described thought processes evaluating lines. Burning Wish into Eye was my only out, but it would only stall Karn 1 turn, so I would have to cast Eye the same turn as going off otherwise it would do nothing. Because he was clearly going for Lattice, I had to go off THIS turn or never. The only way to do that would be to tap my 2 lands for Underworld Breach, crack both LEDs for RRRUUU discarding my hand (including Burning Wish and Brain Freeze), escape the Burning Wish for Eye, cast Eye, then escape the Brain Freeze and go off. I couldn't do that line since Karn stops LED from making mana, so I didn't cast Wish at all and passed the turn. He Latticed me and I scooped.

    You can't reuse Wish, that's why lists with Wish need at least 2 copies.

    Consign // Oblivion.. 2 mana is too expensive for a wish target. Void Snare costs less and is wishable.

    Edit: Interesting, it can be Wished. I thought aftermath cards were different than split cards, but it does count as a sorcery too. Still, 2 mana vs 1 mana is a big difference.

    Why does that mana matter? Karn, the Great Creator is a great example. It stops artifact mana so you only have lands. With 3 lands:
    Wish -> Void Snare. Bounce Karn. Pass.
    They tap out to replay Karn.
    Breach -> Escape Void Snare on Karn -> can use LEDs/Petals now -> go off

    2-mana spells like Eye or Consign are too slow without 4 lands. If you wait, they Lattice and you lose.

  6. #346
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Edit: Interesting, it can be Wished. I thought aftermath cards were different than split cards, but it does count as a sorcery too. Still, 2 mana vs 1 mana is a big difference.
    How prevalent is Chalice of the Void where you are testing? BW > Void Snare isn't going to do the job if you are facing down a Chalice@1.
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  7. #347
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    How prevalent is Chalice of the Void where you are testing? BW > Void Snare isn't going to do the job if you are facing down a Chalice@1.
    Very, though Chalice @ 0 or Chalice @ 2 are common choices vs this deck. I've comboed off through Chalice @ 1 leaving opponent looking awkward.

    BW > Consign/Eye won't do it either if there's any pressure

    BW for Consign. Pass the turn
    Consign. Pass the turn
    Try to go off?

  8. #348
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Makes sense. Just posing a question for discussion. Deck looks interesting, we haven't had any truly unique combo decks pop up in a while.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  9. #349
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Makes sense. Just posing a question for discussion. Deck looks interesting, we haven't had any truly unique combo decks pop up in a while.
    It was a good question!

    I originally started with 2 cmc answers to play around Chalice @ 1 (Shenanigans, Eye of Nowhere...). When it came down to playing real games, I found they were usually too slow to save me while I saw a lot of Chalice @ 0 anyway.

    If they curve T1 Chalice @ 1 into T2 Karn and we don't have FoW, I think we just lose

    (Edit: Pulverize is the only out I can think of, and it can be cast after they Lattice. If you Wish for Pulverize, they probably chicken out of the Lattice line and you buy time to get back in the game. Blood Moon randomly helps you too).

  10. #350

    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    This is where I am at right now and the deck feels incredible strong:



    Mainboard

    Land (15)
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Prismatic Vista
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island

    Selection (12)
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Preordain
    1 Thought Scour

    Artifact Mana (8)
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal

    Tutors (5)
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Burning Wish

    Combo Pieces and Win-cons (10)
    4 Underworld Breach
    4 Brain Freeze
    1 Grinding Station
    1 Thassa's Oracle

    Protection (10)
    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Pact of Negation
    2 Orim's Chant


    A couple of things to note:
    1. I am not running any "Seals" in the main deck as of today
    2. Burning Wish is incredibly powerful and I think it is a staple in this deck as a 2-3 of
    3. Pact of negation is a very strong answer. There are situations where you can BF yourself to dig out a PoN into the yard to answer the opponents spell
    4. Thought Scour is similar to Grinding Station, but it draws us a card....which has been nice.

    In the previous version of this deck I always felt that the "seals" were the weakest cards in the deck. Good situationally but I almost always wanted them to be something else. B-Wish fills this role nicely and still gives us access to answers from our SB to problems. Additionally it allows us to run Sevinne's Reclamation out of the SB allowing us to take lines where we ramp up storm and BF yourself. I find that a storm count of 6 usually does the trick to get what you need into the yard (usually a UB). Wishing for a reclamation after a UB gets countered/discarded is also pretty solid. B-Wish is very flexible in this deck, similar to how it plays in TES but without there being a "reliance" on it. The wishboard is still a work in progress but I really think it should be limited to 3-4 cards, which could be any of the following:

    Grapeshot
    Void Snare
    Sevinne's Reclamation
    Tome Scour
    EtW
    Pyroclasm

    I saw a lot of decks running a single Pact of Negation. This counter is so good in our deck that I upped the count to 2 and have not been disappointed yet! Spell pierce is similar but more situational and I can see it being something else in the main, maybe a 1/1 with a Silence or Flusterstorm. I was running 3 Daze for a bit and think that it has some merit to being in the main 60. I plan on continuing to test Daze out.

    I am only running 15 lands in this version, cutting one Prismatic Vista, and I have not noticed much of a difference in getting my lands.

    The Rest of the SB is something like:
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Chain of Vapor
    2 Silence
    2 Serenity
    1 Monastery Mentor
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Seal of Removal

    In any case. This deck is amazing and I look forward to more iteration. Has anyone started a Primer thread yet?

  11. #351
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Any reason you're running Oracle and Wish?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  12. #352

    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Three different builds of Underworld Breach were featured on camera last night at the Legacy weekly at Mox Boarding House in Seattle. Round 1, Round 2, and Round 4.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/542950125
    sorry but this is unwatchable
    too many misplays

  13. #353
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio83 View Post
    sorry but this is unwatchable
    too many misplays
    The deck is much harder than I had initially thought. I understand why people are struggling with it the first week of play.

  14. #354

    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Any reason you're running Oracle and Wish?
    It is just another win condition in the main deck. I can see cutting it and the grinding station for a land and another silence.

  15. #355
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio83 View Post
    sorry but this is unwatchable
    too many misplays
    Yeah. I couldn't get past Round 1. He punted all 3 games (still lucksacked into G1 win). Most of the commenters missed it. AnziD was on point, calling out the key decision points.

    This is a new deck. With the recent hype from MentalMissteps wins, there must be a lot of players just taking this for a spin without really understanding the deck mechanics yet.

    If you watch guys like this or play matches online, it looks like the deck is easy to hate out, but they're just misplaying. If you watch good players like MentalMisstep or AnziD it's a different story, and even AnziD punted a few in his winning streak! The basic combo line is simple, but once you consider all the alternate lines and playing around hate it's more complex. There's a big difference in win% depending on how you pilot it. High performance ceiling but it also takes skill and careful attention to sequencing and resource management.

    We need a good primer.

  16. #356
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    It was a good question!

    I originally started with 2 cmc answers to play around Chalice @ 1 (Shenanigans, Eye of Nowhere...). When it came down to playing real games, I found they were usually too slow to save me while I saw a lot of Chalice @ 0 anyway.

    If they curve T1 Chalice @ 1 into T2 Karn and we don't have FoW, I think we just lose

    (Edit: Pulverize is the only out I can think of, and it can be cast after they Lattice. If you Wish for Pulverize, they probably chicken out of the Lattice line and you buy time to get back in the game. Blood Moon randomly helps you too).
    By Force is a flexible card that is wish-able as well. It was tech in Ruby Storm for a while.
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  17. #357
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by shojeel View Post
    This is where I am at right now and the deck feels incredible strong:
    I like your list. The mainboard I've been running the last few days is almost identical:
    -1 Thought Scour
    -1 Thassa
    -1 Spell Pierce
    +1 ETutor
    +1 Tundra (white sources are useful to beat hate)
    +1 Wish

    Thought about cutting one of those slots for a 3rd Chant or another counter. The difference is so marginal it's hard to tell.

    I'm also at 9 fetches now, but a 3-3-3 split with more Vistas.

    I don't run Seals either. If you watch all of AnziD's 12+ streamed matches from the weekend, I don't think he ever ETutors for either Seal in game 1. You don't need them, especially with the Wishboard outs.

    I'm up to 2 Pacts too and happy with it. Pact is very useful. Don't know if I'd play more though.

    I was on Flusterstorm before and replaced it with Spell Pierce.

    Serenity is incredible. Couldn't imagine going lower than 2. It answers so much! See above where I went off on turn 3 through Chalice @ 0, Leyline of the Void, a Moon effect, and an unplayed Trinisphere (would have been on the board if I hadn't cast Serenity first).

    My wishboard slots are the most in-flux. Grapeshot and Tome Scour are the bare minimum. I had up to 8 wish slots before, but I cut down to around 5-6 to free space for other important SB answers.

    After a lot of games (testing & real opponents), I wasn't using Pyroclasm and EtW. What matchups have you used them in and how much did they help?

    I was on Sevinne's Reclamation until I put Infernal Tutor in the board. Then I ended up Wishing for Tutor in the scenarios I used to wish for Sevinne, so I cut it. But Sevinne is very strong with a Brain Freeze!

  18. #358
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by shojeel View Post
    It is just another win condition in the main deck. I can see cutting it and the grinding station for a land and another silence.
    Yeah - but it's not like the deck needs anything other than 1 win con MD? The only reason we run multiple BW is that they are useful even when drawn and running less than one could lead to one being exiled for whatever reason. The only advantage of Oracle seems to be that it pitches to FOW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
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  19. #359
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    By Force is a flexible card that is wish-able as well. It was tech in Ruby Storm for a while.
    It's a good idea. By Force and Meltdown showed up in the Wishboards of some of our earlier drafts many pages back. Maybe they could work.

    The problem again is mana/tempo. For Wish > By Force to beat Shenanigans we need 3RR or to pass the turn. Can we afford that? Ruby Storm has more explosive mana than us.

    The cool thing about Pulverize is you can cast it through a Mycosynth Lattice lock. It reads "0, sacrifice 2 lands: destroy all permanents"! Mutually Assured Destruction! The threat alone is enough.

    Opponent: Karn. -2: mana
    Us: Burning Wish > Void Snare normally. But if they have Chalice @ 1, then we could Wish > Pulverize
    Opponent: Chickens out of Lattice. Does something other than "win this turn".
    Us: Can do stuff

    Pulverize could be useful in other game states too. Costing 0 is useful. Could be too narrow. Don't know if it's worth a SB slot yet, just Brainstorming about outs. Some TES lists run it.

  20. #360
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    We need a good primer.
    Do you think we have a static enough list for a primer? This is just off memory , but it seems like there are a lot of slots in flux still.

    18-22 Mana Sources
    9-11 Fetch Lands
    2 Island
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    1-2 Tundra
    1-2 Volcanic Island
    0-2 Hall of Heliod's Generosity
    4 Lotus Petal

    13-15 Combo Slots
    4 Underworld Breach
    4 Brain Freeze
    4 LED
    0-1 Grinding Station
    0-1 Thassa's Oracle
    0-3 Burning Wish

    10-11 Protection Slots
    3-4 Force of Will
    0-2 Pact of Negation
    0-2 Spell Pierce
    0-4 Orim's Chant
    0-2 Defense Grid

    12-15 Card Selection Slots
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    0-4 Preordain
    0-4 Thought Scour
    3-4 Etutor


    Wishboard (if including Burning Wish)
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Tome Scour
    0-1 Void Snare || Eye of Nowhere
    0-1 By Force || Meltdown || Shenanigans || Pulverize
    0-1 Pyroclasm
    0-1 Empty the Warrens
    0-1 Sevenne's Reclamation
    0-1 Infernal Tutor

    Sideboard
    0-4 Monastery Mentor
    0-2 Silence
    0-3 Wear \\ Tear
    0-3 Serenity
    0-4 Swords to Plowshares
    0-4 Chain of Vapor || Brazen Borrower

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