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Thread: Escape Brain Freeze

  1. #281
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemon View Post
    Iím currently looking for a better option thatíll hopefully answer tomodís and bog, which I see more often.
    For Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus/Nihil Spellbomb I have a 1-of Pithing Needle in the SB (in the URw lists with 4 ETutor). It seemed like a clean answer without taking up too much space. Otherwise you can try to Spell Pierce them.

    How are they getting Bog into play? If they're using Knight of the Reliquary or Elvish Reclaimer, Needle helps there too!

    If it's Crop Rotation, I think we just cannot let them resolve a Crop Rotation on the combo turn. Bog or Glacial Chasm wrecks us. So we need to either counter it or proactively stop it with Defense Grid/Silence. If they play Bog before the combo turn, I think we can just play around that by not self-milling (or doing an EOT Brain Freeze for 6-12, then untapping and going off).

  2. #282

    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Good results! I might start playing Thought Scour over Preordain.

    Finished that league 3-2, so it's 10-5 overall. Not sure if Intuition is where you want to be; I just wanted to try out my first drawup. I'm going to tinker with some Gamble lists soon.


    How has it been against mana denial decks? Did you face much Delver or D&T?

    I have yet to face D and T. Intuition is passable against Delver, which I have faced. I cut one post board. You sometimes have to play it into a Daze.

    Where has Veil shined for you that Silence wouldn't? I would think that a random draw on the combo turn doesn't make a huge difference if you already committed to going off. Did you face much Counterbalance? I like Silence for beating Surgical and disenchants, but maybe your counters were sufficient to beat those.

    Veil has primarily shined against Thoughtseize (which Silence doesn't stop) and winning a counter war on the opponent's turn (vs the New UG Show and Tell deck). Being able to cycle it is also sometimes nice.

    Thinking about it more, there are some nice things about Silence that I hadn't thought of. Much better against something like Crop Rotation, for instance.

    I was torn about Flusterstorm vs Spell Pierce earlier. In your games how often did it win situations that Spell Pierce wouldn't (i.e. storm >=3 and opponent has 2 open)? I like that Pierce can counter permanent hate like Chalice, Counterbalance, Cage, Crypt....

    In the faster builds, I think Spell Pierce or a split makes more sense. As I am more equipped to play a slow game, and often do, the extra storm copies of Flusterstorm have come in handy several times. In builds without FOW Pierce is probably also correct, since you have fewer answers to things like Chalice and Karn.

    You can play around Surgical Extraction until you can counter it or stop them from playing spells. What about Faerie Macabre, Scavenging Ooze and Extirpate though? That's why I started with the 3 Gravestones originally. If it was just for Surgical, even Silence stops that. Although note that Silent Gravestone also stops their Snapcaster Mage and Dreadhorde Arcanist in those Surgical decks.


    Not gonna lie...Extirpate seems almost unbeatable. If opponent has it and always leaves a black mana available it seems like they should be able to win eventually with a ham sandwich. I've comboed through double Macabre. Macabre is a card that could occasionally "catch you" on an early turn. In general Surgical seems only marginally better against us than it is vs something like ANT. It comes in against ANT, and it is even better vs us (so it's not like we are happy the opponent has access) but most of the time you can navigate around it. Flusterstorm vs Pierce also tends to help here.

    It also has a 2nd mode of slowing down Reanimator, which is faster than us. Do we have any other plan against them? We can't race. I figured having a protection piece that doubled as hate was efficient use of SB.

    Gravestone is a total beating vs Reanimator to be sure. Forces them to have an answer or exactly Exhume. My plan is force/flusterstorm (4 of each post board) into a combo on t2-4. I guess I can get behind a single Gravestone if you have room. Maybe it does deserve a slot--I'm a fan of the card, and used to play three copies in Ice Station Zebra back in the DRS days. I'd just go with one because of (extreme) diminishing returns and it being somewhat borderline to begin with.

    Speaking of Ice Station Zebra, I made a kind of funny Tin Fins mashup with Breach. You can find it on the Tin Fins forum in Established decks. I'm 2-0 in my first league with it! (Def don't think it's actually good).

  3. #283
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    This is what I'm on now. It's been running pretty well.


    //Lands: 15
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Tundra
    1 Island
    1 Plains

    //Artifacts: 11
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Defense Grid
    1 Grinding Station

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Underworld Breach

    //Planeswalker: 1
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler

    //Spells: 29
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Silence
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Brain Freeze
    3 Spell Pierce
    2 Preordain

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Tome Scour
    1 Infernal Tutor
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation
    1 Shenanigans
    1 Fragmentize
    1 Pyroclasm
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Serenity
    1 Silent Gravestone
    2 Brazen Borrower
    2 Chain of Vapor
    1 Red Elemental Blast


    After more testing, I added back Preordain. I missed the card selection. I found running protection or answers (StP, bounce) in that slot led to worse draw consistency even if I could 1-for-1 something. Maybe Intuition or Gamble are better, don't know. Preordain played better for me than Thought Scour, could come down to play style. I really abuse card selection and don't like random draws.


    Card choices (for the flex slots):
    Grinding Station - lets you ETutor for mill when you have Breach + LED + ETutor (alternate combo loop to dig for BF)

    Tome Scour - lets you Burning Wish for mill (alternate combo loop)

    Infernal Tutor - lets you Burning Wish for Underworld Breach with 1RR+LED for BBB.

    Sevinne's Reclamation - lets you Burning Wish to get back milled/killed Underworld Breach, Grid, Teferi, or LED

    Spell Pierce - protects the combo. reusable with Breach. counters enemy combo and early problems like Chalice, Counterbalance, Cage, etc

    Teferi, Time Raveler - protects the combo. bounces hate. bounces Underworld Breach if you fizzle.

    Silence - protection from countermagic, Crop Rotation, Surgical, Extirpate, and Disenchants.

    Defense Grid - ETutorable Silence

    Pithing Needle - ETutorable answer for Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, Faerie Macabre, Scavenging Ooze, Elvish Reclaimer, Karn, etc

    Serenity - ETutorable answer for Chalice @ 0, Trinisphere, Blood Moon, Leylines, Back to Basics, Null Rod, Enchantress, etc

    Silent Gravestone - ETutorable answer for Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Faerie Macabre, Scavenging Ooze, etc. Hates on Reanimator and recursion.

    Fragmentize - Wishable answer for Leylines, Chalice @ 0/Chalice @ 2, Counterbalance @ 0/2, Grafdigger's Cage, Null Rod, Rest in Peace

    Shenanigans - Wishable answer for Chalice @ 1, Trinisphere, Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, etc

    Pyroclasm - Wishable answer for Thalia, Revoker, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Meddling Mage, Collector Ouphe, beatdown, etc

    Brazen Borrower - Bounce hate pieces or beaters. Alternate win condition.

    Chain of Vapor - answers most permanent hate, except Chalice @ 1

    Red Elemental Blast - counters, Counterbalance, etc

    I'm on the full 4 ETutor and 4 Burning Wish. I tweaked the deck so they can both find almost any combo piece or solutions to most problems.
    ETutor gets Underworld Breach, LED, mill (Grinding), protection (Grid), SB answers
    Wish gets mill (Scour), Breach (IT), recovery (Sevinne), SB answers, win condition. If I need LED, I can try to mill into it, or just use Petal instead.

  4. #284
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Jblinder View Post
    Not gonna lie...Extirpate seems almost unbeatable.
    I realized Defense Grid, Silence and Teferi, Time Raveler already beat Extirpate just like they beat Surgical. Extirpate is just harder to beat with counters and stack timing. I cut back on Silent Gravestones.

    We can win through Extirpate on LED (deterministic win with Lotus Petal + Brain Freeze)
    We can win through Extirpate on BF (deterministic win with LED + Wish for Tome Scour)

    Double Extirpate on both LED and BF is very hard, but we don't have to concede unless they have pressure. If we resolved the first BF before Extirpate, it's theoretically beatable by a Tome Scour+Lotus Petal loop. That reduces GY size each iteration, but if starting size and mana are enough then we can try to build enough storm to Wish -> Grapeshot. Could be very time consuming, maybe only worth it in G3.

  5. #285
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    EWLandon just streamed a version of this deck with a guest, MentalMisstep:

    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Prismatic Vista
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island


    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal

    4 Underworld Breach
    4 Enlightened Tutor

    4 Force of Will
    1 Orim's Chant
    1 Pact of Negation
    2 Defense Grid


    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    1 Seal of Removal
    4 Brain Freeze
    1 Grinding Station
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Thassa's Oracle


    SIDEBOARD
    2 Chain of Vapor
    4 Silence
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Serenity
    1 Force of Negation
    2 Wear

    He went 4-1, deck looked pretty decent.

    Also, 5th place from the Challenge this weekend by MartinMedMitten:

    1 Narset, Parter of Veils


    4 Ovalchase Daredevil
    4 Riddlesmith
    2 Simian Spirit Guide


    4 Echo of Eons
    4 Gamble
    1 Grapeshot
    3 Brain Freeze
    2 Chain of Vapor
    4 Chrome Mox
    2 Defense Grid
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    2 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Mox Opal
    3 Urza's Bauble
    3 Underworld Breach


    1 Ancient Tomb
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Taiga
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Volcanic Island


    Sideboard
    2 Chain of Vapor
    2 Defense Grid
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Karakas
    3 Nature's Claim
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Silent Gravestone
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Veil of Summer
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  6. #286

    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    That Riddlesmith version looks extremely sweet. I'd pick it up if had an extra $2k lying around!

  7. #287
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    Re: Escape Brain Freeze

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    EWLandon just streamed a version of this deck with a guest, MentalMisstep:
    Interesting. He's using the same URW shell as a few of us, with some similarities (ETutor, Silence, Defense Grid, Chain of Vapor, Serenity, 1-of Grinding Station) and some interesting choices:

    1) More fetches and basics. Better resilience vs Wasteland. We've all been dual-heavy. I thought basic-heavy would hurt speed too much, because nonblue lands are really bad draws early, but I guess he has as many blue sources as me.

    2) 10 MD protection slots. That's where I settled too. More and I wasn't drawing enough gas. Only 7 (previous versions) felt light in real games.

    3) Pact of Negation. Glad to see this card back in! The synergy on the combo turn is amazing. I wonder how effective it is as just a 1-of without Entomb. Maybe he's just testing that in an open slot.

    4) Force of Will. Pitching a card hurts (especially after a mulligan, I rarely have a card to spare if I want to go off early since the combo takes 3 pieces + 2-3 mana sources + protection) but it also answers a lot of problems. Relative to Spell Pierce, it speeds up the deck by a turn (1 less mana on combo turn), maybe more. Leaving mana open for Spell Pierce early is a big pain, you want to optimize mana cantripping and tutoring. I'm leaning towards Force too.

    5) The full 4 Preordain. I found 2x-3x Preordain hands very weak, wonder if it would be better as a split with something that can dig deeper (e.g. Gamble or Intuition).

    6) Silence moved to the board, 1 Chant main. I wonder how this affects his G1 win %. With FoW+Pact instead of Pierce or Silence, he can go off with less mana, so he gains a bit in explosive speed. Silence can also be dead game 1 (Chant is live even against aggro). I cast Silence before going off just in case, but you may not need it G1 if they have no idea what you're doing or how to disrupt it. Surprise factor could be a big edge.

    7) No Wishboard or Grapeshot, Thassa main. Executing the combo would take many more clicks.

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