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Thread: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

  1. #41

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    I just watched some AnziD streams on Twitch. He has cut E-Tutor as well. It looks like he is favoring Intuition, Predict, Cantrips and running 15 lands. I am still not the biggest fan of FoW but I see why it is needed in the 3c builds. I do like the direction the UWr list is going though:

    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler
    3 Orim's Chant

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    2 Predict
    2 Intuition

    4 Underworld Breach
    4 Brain Freeze
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Lotus Petal

    2 Lightning Bolt
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation

    2 Prismatic Vista
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tundra
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain

    SIDEBOARD
    2 Serenity
    3 Wear
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
    3 Monastery Mentor
    2 Silence

  2. #42
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    The Intuition tech is smart. AnziD got the list from Rodrigo. It's linked in the primer under paper lists. (made a top 8 this weekend)

    EOT Intuition for: Sevinne's Reclamation, Underworld Breach, Lion's Eye Diamond.
    If they give you Sevinne, you can cast it for Breach and go off.
    If they give you Breach, you can go off.
    If they give you LED, you can crack it for WWW and flashback Sevinne for LED + Breach to go off.

    Other piles work too. If you already have an LED or Breach, you can replace one with Brain Freeze.
    It's a clean tutor for 2 pieces at once. EOT, instant speed, no card disadvantage. That's why those lists cut ETutor. Without that trick, I think ETutor is still needed in Jeskai. I don't know if 15 lands is optimal. AnziD just copied the other guy's list.

    Bryant Cook posted this recent interview with Stefan (MentalMisstep) on Jeskai Breach:
    https://www.theepicstorm.com/through...stefan-schutz/

    Stefan's still on ETutor, though he mentions the Intuition+Sevinne tech.

  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    I thought of it as an expensive trick especially with 15 lands, but actually running some loose numbers it's pretty reliable! Let's assume that each turn other than the first you can brainstorm and fetch, thus "see" an additional 3 cards. That means by turn 3 you will have "seen" about 15 cards - then, lets assume you're counting petals as "lands" (can't count LEDs since we're talking about the mana used to cast Intuition) then the chance to pull this off consistently around turn 3 is about (for when you have Intuition in hand) is about 93%. Assume, that by turn 3 you've only "seen" about 11 cards (i.e., you got a couple cantrips off or one good brainstorm) the percentage is actually still decent at 75.4%. However, I think the issue is that you can't really count Petal as a land since if they give you Sevinne you still need 3 mana to go off. So the percentages under the same assumptions (but assuming one more card draw (for the 3rd land to cast Sevinne, since you can petal to cast intuition) for you since you're casting it EOOT) are 84.4% and 63.1%, which is still pretty solid.
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  4. #44
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by shojeel View Post
    I am very curious about the 4 color decks. One thing I have noticed about the Breach builds is that there is a lot of card disadvantage, and it always feels bad....always.

    Since I have settled back on the Infernal Tutor plan we may as well play Ad Nauseam. AN is a real card advantage engine as you all know if you followed TES or ANT over the years and it works for us in the same way.

    Here is what the MD looks like right now:

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 LED
    4 Dark Ritual

    4 Underworld Breach
    3 Brain Freeze
    1 Memory Sluice
    1 Grapeshot

    4 Infernal Tutor
    1 Ad Nauseam

    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Veil of Summer

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Arcumís Astrolabe

    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 tropical Island
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    You might be interested in this list, that came 3rd in last weekend's MTGO Legacy Challenge.
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...reaux_rd_place

    It's a hybrid TES-4C Breach deck.


    //Sorcery (17)
    3 Burning Wish
    3 Infernal Tutor
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    3 Thoughtseize

    //Instant (15)
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Brain Freeze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Rain of Filth
    4 Veil of Summer

    //Artifact (11)
    1 Defense Grid
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    2 Wishclaw Talisman

    //Enchantment (1)
    1 Underworld Breach

    //Land (16)
    1 Badlands
    1 Bayou
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island

    //Sideboard (15)
    1 Infernal Tutor
    1 Thoughtseize
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Chain of Vapor
    1 Echo of Eons
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Hull Breach
    1 Massacre
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    2 Tormod's Crypt



    It maxes out on the overlap cards (cantrips, discard, Wish, Veil, fast mana, Grid). Then it runs 1-ofs: Breach, Brain Freeze, Ad Nauseam. Once you get a tutor online, you can go off with either engine. Looks like their plan is to dodge hate. If life total is pressured, go to Breach combo. If graveyard is pressured, use ANT or Wish for Echo/EtW.

    It surprised the meta and did well. SoulStrong still placed 10th in that event with ETutor Jeskai though, so Jeskai is still a contender.

  5. #45

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    You might be interested in this list, that came 3rd in last weekend's MTGO Legacy Challenge.
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...reaux_rd_place

    .........

    It's a hybrid TES-4C Breach deck.

    It maxes out on the overlap cards (cantrips, discard, Wish, Veil, fast mana, Grid). Then it runs 1-ofs: Breach, Brain Freeze, Ad Nauseam. Once you get a tutor online, you can go off with either engine. Looks like their plan is to dodge hate. If life total is pressured, go to Breach combo. If graveyard is pressured, use ANT or Wish for Echo/EtW.

    It surprised the meta and did well. SoulStrong still placed 10th in that event with ETutor Jeskai though, so Jeskai is still a contender.
    I am still on 5c as I do see benefits from running Astrolabe and all of the good 1 drop "protection" spells. I am trying out Intuition as it actually seems smart, but I may go back to B-Wish/IT/Wishclaw depending on further testing. I played about 10 matches last night and didn't drop a single game with the 5c B-wish build. More to come.

    Mainboard


    //Selection (12)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Preordain
    4 Ponder

    //Combo and Wincons (16)
    4 Underworld Breach
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Lotus Petal
    3 Brain Freeze
    2 Lightning Bolt

    //Protection (9)
    3 Veil of Summer
    3 Orim's Chant
    3 Thoughtseize

    //Other (3)
    2 Intuition
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation


    //Color Fix (4)
    4 Arcum's Astrolabe

    //Lands (16)
    1 Volcanic Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Tundra
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Underground Sea

    //Sideboard
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Serenity
    3 Wear
    3 Monastery Mentor
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 Veil of Summer
    2 Silence

  6. #46
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I like your Grixis build. How useful was Bob? What was your loss to in the Legacy Prelim?

    Dystopia and Plague Engineer are interesting. I'm guessing you chose 3cc answers on purpose (Chalice, Prelate)? How did they perform? Did Dystopia ever kill an Oko?




    I agree. Pact is very strong. Most good Jeskai lists run 1-2 copies. Jbinder's RUG build runs 2 copies.

    There was a lot of discussion about it in the old thread. If you carefully manage your graveyard size, Pact is active at all windows of interaction!

    Cast Breach (Pact is in your hand to counter their spell)
    Breach resolves
    Crack LED for UUU (Pact goes to graveyard before opponent has priority and can be immediately escaped)
    combo off (Pact is in graveyard to escape)
    etc..
    Went 4-1 again with the same list tweaked a bit in a League tonight. It feels really strong.

    FYI: Dystopia is incredible, especially against Deafening Silence, Taxes, Oko, Ouphe, etc. And yes, it did kill one Oko. I Pushed a Thalia end step, untapped and played Dystopia. That was that. In a pinch, buying back Pushes as a de facto Wrath is pretty funny.

  7. #47
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Playing intuition without access to sol lands feels like a risky proposition as it makes soft countermagic a lot better against us. E-tutor is card disadvantage, yes, but much easier to resolve and can get each piece of the combo.

    How do people feel about that point?
    You can follow me on Twitter at: www.twitter.com/MartinFSNielsen

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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by nevilshute View Post
    Playing intuition without access to sol lands feels like a risky proposition as it makes soft countermagic a lot better against us. E-tutor is card disadvantage, yes, but much easier to resolve and can get each piece of the combo.

    How do people feel about that point?
    Daze/Wasteland/Thalia was the original reason we dismissed Intuition when it came up in the old thread a month ago. It's a valid concern. But back then we only thought of it as getting 3 copies of 1 card. Sevinne tech opens up a lot more piles. Paying 3 mana to get 1 combo piece is not that good (vs 1 mana and -1 draw step), but paying 3 mana EOT to get 2 pieces is quite strong.

    If you have Brain Freeze in hand
    Pile: Sevinne, Breach, LED. With 3 lands in play and some cards in the GY, this is enough to win.

    If you have Breach in hand
    Pile: LED, Petal, Brain Freeze

    If you have LED in hand/play
    Pile: Sevinne, Breach, Brain Freeze.

    Postboard
    Aggro pile: 3x Monastery Mentor

    Intuition also allows you to board out some copies of LED and Brain Freeze, to have better draws vs disruption, because you can still tutor them when you need them. Intuition also wins around Chalice @ 1 while ETutor gets stuck with all your cantrips.

    That said, watching AnziD's streams with Rodrigo Togores' build, he doesn't cast Intuition that often. The cost does seem prohibitive. I also think the SB is also suboptimal without ETutor or Wishes to grab silver bullets, forcing multiple copies of a few cards instead of diverse interaction.

  9. #49
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Yeah itís definitely nice to be able to tutor up all 3 pieces with Intuition with Sevinneís in the deck. Have yet to try it and so I donít want to be too dismissive, but yeah, I worry about Intution.



    Other than that Iím currently having a lot of fun and some decent results with the deck. Iím a bit rusty as Iíve been away from magic more or less through all of 2019.



    One thing Iíve noticed playing the deck is that I rarely mulligan compared to other decks. But when I do mulligan it seems to be because of the manabase and in particular the basic mountain and to a lesser extent the basic plains. But itís a weakness in one game and a strength in the next so itís not something I feel comfortable experimenting on quite yet.



    Iím on 16 lands (4 basics, 2 duals 10 fetches) for reference.
    You can follow me on Twitter at: www.twitter.com/MartinFSNielsen

  10. #50

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    I've been following this thread and deck for a while now and it's been putting up some strong results lately. Before I sink time and energy into learning deck and graveyard piles how likely do you think it is that Breach gets banned? Is this deck too consitant and degenerate and the same time even for legacy?

  11. #51

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    I've been following this thread and deck for a while now and it's been putting up some strong results lately. Before I sink time and energy into learning deck and graveyard piles how likely do you think it is that Breach gets banned? Is this deck too consitant and degenerate and the same time even for legacy?
    I have a feeling they are going to leave breach alone. It is not more consistent than any other Storm style deck. The fact that it is a A+B+C combo restricts the building of the deck. What would get it the ban is if it started showing up in other established decks, like W&6 or splinter twin did. UB is very strong but I do not believe it deserves a Ban.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    I've been following this thread and deck for a while now and it's been putting up some strong results lately. Before I sink time and energy into learning deck and graveyard piles how likely do you think it is that Breach gets banned? Is this deck too consitant and degenerate and the same time even for legacy?
    I would personally be very disappointed if they banned it. Beyond sinking money and time into the deck, I don't feel like it's any more or less powerful than other legacy cards. It's the new kid on the block and people haven't figured out the best way to attack it. It's unacceptable to most hate (I've had people board in all 15 sideboard cards against me because they were all good). The only thing that doesn't hit it is creature removal. Artifact hate stops LED\Petal, Enchantment hate stops Breach, Graveyard Hate stops escape, Hand hate (discard) tears apart our combo and slows us down, mana denial is great against our fairly flimsy mana base, Storm Hate is a must remove. The problem people are running into is that they feel like any one of these should just win them the game, and are upset when an opening Leyline and Null Rod doesn't do it.

    I honestly think that in 3-4 months this deck will just be another tier two one-trick-pony deck like Belcher.

  13. #53

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemon View Post

    ........I honestly think that in 3-4 months this deck will just be another tier two one-trick-pony deck like Belcher.
    I do not agree here. While I agree with the rest of what you said I do not think this deck is going to be tier 2. This thing is still evolving and is putting up results in the meantime. That is some good staying power and power level. The deck is very real and I will put my neck on the line and say that in the event that this does not get a ban it will be a Tier 1 deck. I have been having some great success (in my best Borat voice) with most of the builds and the 5c build is where I am focusing now. Out of 20 matches I have lost 2 (although be it in the MTGO Practice room), one to a Grixis Breach build running [card]Sentinel Tower[/card], and a jund build with triple hate in g2 and g3 that I couldn't get all answered.

    This deck is not a flash in the pan and I for one hope it stays out from under the ban hammer.

  14. #54
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    The Intuition tech is smart. AnziD got the list from Rodrigo. It's linked in the primer under paper lists. (made a top 8 this weekend)

    EOT Intuition for: Sevinne's Reclamation, Underworld Breach, Lion's Eye Diamond.
    If they give you Sevinne, you can cast it for Breach and go off.
    If they give you Breach, you can go off.
    If they give you LED, you can crack it for WWW and flashback Sevinne for LED + Breach to go off.

    Other piles work too. If you already have an LED or Breach, you can replace one with Brain Freeze.
    It's a clean tutor for 2 pieces at once. EOT, instant speed, no card disadvantage. That's why those lists cut ETutor. Without that trick, I think ETutor is still needed in Jeskai. I don't know if 15 lands is optimal. AnziD just copied the other guy's list.

    Bryant Cook posted this recent interview with Stefan (MentalMisstep) on Jeskai Breach:
    https://www.theepicstorm.com/through...stefan-schutz/

    Stefan's still on ETutor, though he mentions the Intuition+Sevinne tech.
    Intuition seems inherently dangerous to play in a world with ubiquitous Surgical Extraction - especially when the deck is overly reliant on Underworld Breach.

  15. #55
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    I've been following this thread and deck for a while now and it's been putting up some strong results lately. Before I sink time and energy into learning deck and graveyard piles how likely do you think it is that Breach gets banned? Is this deck too consitant and degenerate and the same time even for legacy?
    I don't see it getting banned yet:
    -Not taking over a huge part of the meta
    -No faster than other tier 1 combos (BR Reanimator, TES, Turbo Depths)
    -Many many ways for opponent to interact
    -Format is adapting. Players are learning how to beat it or board against it.

    Bryant Cook is getting a ton of wins with TES right now too. It may just be that combo is well-positioned due to a few factors like London mulligan, Veil of Summer, less discard seeing play (due to Veil), and Oko not being able to Elk spells. Seriously, why would anyone pass the turn with nonland permanents in a format with Oko backed by FoW? Oko/Astrolabe seem at much higher risk of banning.

    I was thinking even RUG Breach could run 1-2 Oko as a way to kill hate pieces (Elk them). At 3cc it cleanly gets around any choices for Chalice or Prelate, it pitches to FoW, it can double as a backup win condition. It could be the SB Mentor in RUG.

  16. #56
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I don't see it getting banned yet:
    -Not taking over a huge part of the meta
    -No faster than other tier 1 combos (BR Reanimator, TES, Turbo Depths)
    -Many many ways for opponent to interact
    -Format is adapting. Players are learning how to beat it or board against it.

    Bryant Cook is getting a ton of wins with TES right now too. It may just be that combo is well-positioned due to a few factors like London mulligan, Veil of Summer, less discard seeing play (due to Veil), and Oko not being able to Elk spells. Seriously, why would anyone pass the turn with nonland permanents in a format with Oko backed by FoW? Oko/Astrolabe seem at much higher risk of banning.

    I was thinking even RUG Breach could run 1-2 Oko as a way to kill hate pieces (Elk them). At 3cc it cleanly gets around any choices for Chalice or Prelate, it pitches to FoW, it can double as a backup win condition. It could be the SB Mentor in RUG.
    Underworld Breach is not getting banned. It requires a ton of setup and is much more susceptible to graveyard hate than traditional storm decks.

    As an aside, playing a Grixis or non-white version feels great when your opponent E-Tutors and you Freeze them after the fact.

  17. #57
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Intuition seems inherently dangerous to play in a world with ubiquitous Surgical Extraction - especially when the deck is overly reliant on Underworld Breach.
    The Intuition builds have put up a decent win %. Togores did well at MKM. AnziD's at about 80% wins (> 50 matches) with the Intuition version.

    Surgical doesn't see play game 1. G2/G3 Intuition can be boarded out vs Surgical decks, or there are other ways to manoever around it (counter Surgical, cast Chant first).


    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    much more susceptible to graveyard hate than traditional storm decks
    More susceptible, don't know about "much more". Cabal Rit & PiF engines are shut down pretty hard by grave hate.

    Surgical and Faerie Macabre are very weak against us, can almost be ignored (as long as Breach doesn't get extracted). Cards like Crypt and Bog are bigger problems, but we can still go off through those effects with a little help and win that turn. Leyline is a big deal but we pack a lot of answers for it. If there is a lot of GY hate, Jeskai's Mentor plan B is very strong. Of the top hate cards I worry about and see other Jeskai players struggle with, I don't think any are grave hate ironically.

  18. #58

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Is there a Discord for this deck yet? Have a link?

  19. #59
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Small test notes on Sylvan Library. Note - I tested it as a 2 of in a URgw list with 3 Etutors. Outside combo pieces only other Tutor Targets were post board Defense Grid and Serenity. Out of 7 paper matches (17 games total) found myself tutoring for Library in 3 games. Each time I tutored for it, Library was quickly able to give me Card Quality and Card Advantage enough to win (moreover, it "payed" for the loss in advantage from Etutor). Games I didn't tutor for it, I either tutored to complete the combo or get Serenity. Did not find myself tutoring for Defense Grid. There is also obvious dis-synergy between Serenity and Library but found that I usually kept Library active until it crafted a good hand and then got Serenity to allow me to actually win. Drawing the Library was also good, it pays for itself in card quality fairly well, and provides card advantage fairly well as well. This deck has lately been playing slow so the life loss was a factor in 2 of the games I played leading to a loss. That could probably change with more exp. For skeptical I just suggest playing it as a 2 of in a RUG list before experimenting with URgw lists. Also testing with Library made me appreciate the suggestion of Bob for black as well. Would be curious to see how a list running both of them would work?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
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  20. #60

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Small test notes on Sylvan Library.....................Drawing the Library was also good, it pays for itself in card quality fairly well, and provides card advantage fairly well as well. This deck has lately been playing slow so the life loss was a factor in 2 of the games I played leading to a loss. That could probably change with more exp. For skeptical I just suggest playing it as a 2 of in a RUG list before experimenting with URgw lists. Also testing with Library made me appreciate the suggestion of Bob for black as well. Would be curious to see how a list running both of them would work?
    Some questions, @Cire

    How often were you drawing extra cards?

    Did you find yourself getting lands to shuffle more?

    Were you playing preordain or thought scour?

    I am very interested in the card. The 5c version I am experimenting with now could use something like that. I currently play preordain but with SL I could definitely see playing Thought Scour! It almost becomes an ancestral recall in some situations. I am not sold on the Intuition and am still looking for raw card advantage/selection. This deck can play the long game. SL may also allow us to play cards like Force of Vigor if we run more green (Veils, Naturalize?, Tinder Wall?...just spit-ballin'). If you think that the life loss is too much but the selection is amazing we could always look at [card]Miri's Guile[/card]. I feel like the ability to Diving Top every upkeep for one G mana could be really cool.

    I look forward to discussing this.

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