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Thread: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

  1. #21
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Some thoughts:

    In non-goldfish testing we are most afraid of getting our hand picked apart by discard spells - that's why it almost seems like there are two stages to the playing the deck. Stage 1 is cantripping into as many Silence/Chant/Veil/Fow's that you can get and Stage 2 is assembling the combo. Since Stage 1 is such a big part of the deck's strength it's hard to justify cutting out protection spots. This makes sense when you look at the successful lists which all run about 10 to 11 protection slots. Especially as the meta turns to answering this deck it seems improper to answer that meta by cutting protection spots - if anything you need to fine tune the protection spots.

    In regards to 4C versions we need to look at what each color brings to the table and why we would play that color:

    White - Enlightened Tutor and Silence Effects. Tutor provides card selection and silence is a big card in combo-wars or fighting against control. It also simply acts like a time skip against decks early on which is just so useful to this deck.

    Green - Veil and Burning Wish into Reverent Silence. Veil doubles as a better Silence compared to white, but the real difference between the two colors is that you have better wish targets. Now that the meta is advancing to answer breach decks the maneuverability of the wish board becomes more important.

    Black - Infernal Tutor, Discard, creature kill. ITutor can function like Etutor in some scenarios and with some work arounds, and discard also fufills the general role of silence/veil to varying degrees. Due to this black seems like a worst White redux since every tool of black that you would want white has a spell that fufills that roll either cheaper or better. Even creature kill, that is becoming more important due to GSZ -> Ouphe can be solved by white (STP) or even Dismember, which doesn't require black.

    Looking at the above I would think that if you want to build a 4C deck instead of URwb or URgb you should go URwg.

    I think this is a novel concept since the only 4C builds that I have seen thus far have been URwb or URgb. But such builds confuse me since the cards you would get from black seem like worse cards that you can get from white.

    So I'm thinking of something like the following:


    10 fetchlands
    1 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Underworld Breach
    4 Brain Freeze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Preordain
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    3 Burning Wish

    4 Force of Will
    4 Veil of Summer
    2 Orim's Chant

    //Sideboard:
    1 Consign // Oblivion
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Infernal Tutor
    1 Reverent Silence
    1 Shenanigans
    1 Tome Scour
    1 Serenity
    1 Defense Grid
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Dismember


    Edit - RE the above I think to justify the 4C build you have to argue what it is doing better than 3C builds. I think with URgw the argument would go that it has access to Veil and Silence, that while they fulfill similar roles, this version runs around 6 of that effect and runs 4 of the best version (veil) of that effect. Moreover this build gets to run the wish board with Reverent Silence and also have the flexibility of Etutor.
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  2. #22
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Why have the 4 color builds been URwb and URgb but not URgw? I think it's because green and white both offer similar tools (Veil / Silence and enchantment kill) while black offers different tools (discard, Infernal Tutor, Massacre).

    4C is a significant hit to the manabase consistency. Is it worth that risk just to have more maindeck Veils over Chants? Keep in mind that for Veil to do anything you need green mana open, otherwise it does nothing. On the combo turn, Silence is better than Veil of Summer (Silence prevents more threats). Veil only shines pre-combo (discard, counters, cantripping). But you still need green mana open for it to do that. If they Thoughtseize you when you don't have green mana untapped, you're still vulnerable to discard. If they counter some pre-combo spell (e.g. tutor, cantrip, answer for hate) before you have green mana ready, Veil can't help you. That means you need to fetch a basic Forest or Tropical early, when you otherwise wouldn't need that land for anything else. That's a strain on the manabase. Is that a good enough reason to splash a 4th color?

    The RUG build lets you play Veil and less card disadvantage without the hit to the manabase. Anyone worried about card disadvantage or mana-fixing consistency should try out Jbinder's RUG version first.

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  4. #24
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Why have the 4 color builds been URwb and URgb but not URgw? I think it's because green and white both offer similar tools (Veil / Silence and enchantment kill) while black offers different tools (discard, Infernal Tutor, Massacre).
    See my argument is that tools black gives you aren't all that different from the tools white gives you. Etutor vs. Infernal, Discard vs. Silence, STP vs. Massacre. They look and feel different but they fill the same roles Tutor, Protection, Creature Kill. The most important difference is how Discard protects you vs. how Silence protects you. Discard you usually cast on turns you are not going off, while Silence you cast to protect you turn going off. The idea behind the GW 4C list was to maximize silence/veil effects to prevent/scare off discard as I find discard the most painful "hate" that we face, and then have additional protection to go off.
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  5. #25
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    See my argument is that tools black gives you aren't all that different from the tools white gives you. Etutor vs. Infernal, Discard vs. Silence, STP vs. Massacre. They look and feel different but they fill the same roles Tutor, Protection, Creature Kill. The most important difference is how Discard protects you vs. how Silence protects you. Discard you usually cast on turns you are not going off, while Silence you cast to protect you turn going off. The idea behind the GW 4C list was to maximize silence/veil effects to prevent/scare off discard as I find discard the most painful "hate" that we face, and then have additional protection to go off.
    I think that discard is only the most painful hate we face because we have so few good ways to get ahead on card advantage, Our white suite is inherently bad at this, and none of our blue cards help. Both FoW and Etutor are both 2:1s, and we have no way to get those back. I don't know what the answer to this problem is though. I know some people were playing around with running Predict, but I'm not sure about that one.

  6. #26
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Potential solution is Sylvan Library? Provides Card Selection and Card Advantage? Another option in my proposed URgw version. A green enchantment that you can tutor for if need be.
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  7. #27

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    I am still a fan of the 4c builds. In chatting with a buddy about W vs G he mentioned the SB options that W offers. Mentor and StP being the biggest reasons. I had to agree with their assessment and have decided to cut G. My current list is:


    "Yawgwill" (4)
    4 Underworld Breach

    Win Con (5)
    4 Brain Freeze
    1 Grapeshot

    Tutor (3)
    3 Infernal Tutor

    Fast Mana and Fixing (11)
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Arcum's Astrolabe

    Selection (12)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain

    Protection (10)
    4 Force of Will
    2 Force of Negation
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Silence

    Lands (15)
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    3 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Swamp

    I think this list hits most of the points we need to hit for protection, with the downside of not running many maindeck answers for things that hit the board (no bounce or disenchant effects), which I think is ok for most G1's. I am still working out the SB, but 2-3 Mentor and 3-4 StP will certainly be there. Some number of bounce/disenchant spells, 2-3 silence effects, maybe another W producing Land, 1-2 discard spells, and maybe some general targeted GY hate.

    I think this list feels incredibly strong and flexible. Give it a go and let me know what you think. I am going to try and get some leagues in later with it.

    Also, @Cire, Library is an interesting thought. Being able to ponder every turn "for free" may be something we can take advantage of. I will think more about this and see what a list would look like. Thanks.

  8. #28
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    See my argument is that tools black gives you aren't all that different from the tools white gives you. Etutor vs. Infernal, Discard vs. Silence, STP vs. Massacre. They look and feel different but they fill the same roles Tutor, Protection, Creature Kill. The most important difference is how Discard protects you vs. how Silence protects you. Discard you usually cast on turns you are not going off, while Silence you cast to protect you turn going off. The idea behind the GW 4C list was to maximize silence/veil effects to prevent/scare off discard as I find discard the most painful "hate" that we face, and then have additional protection to go off.
    Veil and Silence fill a similar role. Discard is "protection" but interacts differently and stops different problems. It's proactive, live as early as turn 1, protecting us under a different axis than Veil and Silence do. That's why the URwb and URgb builds splash black for Thoughtseize. It's something unique green and white can't do.

    IT and ETutor function very differently. ETutor is cheap and instant but can only find some card types, is card disadvantage, and only goes to top of library. IT puts the card in hand immediately but is slower to use and requires an enabler (LED or play out hand). ETutor forces some suboptimal card choices so that they're tutorable, while IT doesn't restrict the rest of your deck design.

    While both are "tutors" and "protection", the way they accomplish that has very different impacts on how the deck plays out vs an opponent. IT is more replaceable because all of the tutors have some drawback, but Thoughtseize is something no other color can do.

    Silence doesn't scare off discard. If you want to maximize Veil to scare off discard, why not just play RUG with 4 Veils?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemon View Post
    I think that discard is only the most painful hate we face because we have so few good ways to get ahead on card advantage, Our white suite is inherently bad at this, and none of our blue cards help. Both FoW and Etutor are both 2:1s, and we have no way to get those back. I don't know what the answer to this problem is though. I know some people were playing around with running Predict, but I'm not sure about that one.
    Discard hurts because we have to sculpt an A+B+C combo with protection. We can't cast Breach until the combo turn, so we need to keep Breach and protection in hand. Discard disrupts that. Discard hurts Jeskai even more because it lacks card advantage and has multiple sources of card disadvantage (FoW, ETutor, Silence).

    How to answer this? The RUG build has less card disadvantage and has Veil, so it isn't hurt by discard as much. Jeskai has advantages in other matchups (especially storm mirrors) but RUG does better in attrition games.

    Another option is Michael Keller's list above playing Dark Confidant to get back card advantage. Bob is smart. Our curve is low and, unlike ANT, we don't care about life total. I wonder if Bob is better in transformational SB (after they board out removal) instead of maindeck in game 1, when it will eat 100% of removal.

  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Silence doesn't scare off discard. If you want to maximize Veil to scare off discard, why not just play RUG with 4 Veils?
    The reason I proposed URgw is because (1) I recognize veil as the best card for discard, currently the best hate against us, and (2) crave the consistency of Etutor. I've played the RUG version and found it less consistent (personally) than the ease of just running Etutor. Essentially, I'm wondering about splashing white for tutor and green for veil. All other cards in the list (Orim's Chant/Rev Silence) are bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Another option is Michael Keller's list above playing Dark Confidant to get back card advantage. Bob is smart. Our curve is low and, unlike ANT, we don't care about life total. I wonder if Bob is better in transformational SB (after they board out removal) instead of maindeck in game 1, when it will eat 100% of removal.
    I really like the inclusion of Bob in the black lists - which goes back to my earlier hypo of running library in the proposed URgw list. 2 Library's MD with Etutor seems like a good way to get card advantage. Something like -1 Chant, -1 Preordain, +2 Library
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  10. #30

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Veil and Silence fill a similar role. Discard is "protection" but interacts differently and stops different problems. It's proactive, live as early as turn 1, protecting us under a different axis than Veil and Silence do. That's why the URwb and URgb builds splash black for Thoughtseize. It's something unique green and white can't do.

    IT and ETutor function very differently. ETutor is cheap and instant but can only find some card types, is card disadvantage, and only goes to top of library. IT puts the card in hand immediately but is slower to use and requires an enabler (LED or play out hand). ETutor forces some suboptimal card choices so that they're tutorable, while IT doesn't restrict the rest of your deck design.

    While both are "tutors" and "protection", the way they accomplish that has very different impacts on how the deck plays out vs an opponent. IT is more replaceable because all of the tutors have some drawback, but Thoughtseize is something no other color can do.

    Silence doesn't scare off discard. If you want to maximize Veil to scare off discard, why not just play RUG with 4 Veils?



    Discard hurts because we have to sculpt an A+B+C combo with protection. We can't cast Breach until the combo turn, so we need to keep Breach and protection in hand. Discard disrupts that. Discard hurts Jeskai even more because it lacks card advantage and has multiple sources of card disadvantage (FoW, ETutor, Silence).

    How to answer this? The RUG build has less card disadvantage and has Veil, so it isn't hurt by discard as much. Jeskai has advantages in other matchups (especially storm mirrors) but RUG does better in attrition games.

    Another option is Michael Keller's list above playing Dark Confidant to get back card advantage. Bob is smart. Our curve is low and, unlike ANT, we don't care about life total. I wonder if Bob is better in transformational SB (after they board out removal) instead of maindeck in game 1, when it will eat 100% of removal.
    I think you are looking at IT as an all-in card only. It can also turn itself into any other card in your hand. Need another Cantrip, how about another silence or Veil? Those cards all give us lines to play to win....effectively stopping our opponent. You are correct in power level assessment though, it can get any card in the right circumstance (IT + no hand). In most cases it is a backup Breach if the first one gets countered. I think with the non-G builds we want to use our mana every turn, including T1 (unless saving for a BS and fetch for T2), but in most cases I want to cast ponder, preordain, astrolabe, or thoughtseize on T1.

    I am still toying with the G vs W, and Veil may just be a better card for us...but it requires some different deck building decisions. The G builds probably want 4x Thoughtscour, and may also lean towards B-Wish (though I think IT is just better for us). I'll get some games in with the UBrg list tonight. My gut tells me that UBRw is correct though....at least for 4c.

    Is there a 5c list we should try? What are the best cards in each color?

    Blue:
    BF
    BS/Preordain/Ponder/Thoughtscour
    FoW/FoN/Daze

    Black:
    IT
    TS/IoK/Duress
    D-Rit

    White:
    Silence/Chant

    Red:
    UB
    Grapeshot
    B-wish
    RoF

    Green:
    Veil

    Artifacts:
    Petal
    LED
    Astrolabe

    I don't think we could run FoW/FoN in a 5c build. Would that be a huge loss? Does 5c offer us anything that 4c wouldn't?

    5c Astro-Breach:
    3 BF
    4 UB
    4 LED
    4 LP
    4 Astro

    12 Ponder/Preordain/BS/ Thoughtscour

    3 Veil
    3 Silence
    3 TS

    3 IT/B-wish

    2 Remaining slots

    Looks interesting! In any case, let's keep exploring!


    Bob is an interesting card but I do not like turning on an opponents removal spells, pre or post board. S-Library may be a new card that Cire mentioned that we have not really explored in depth yet.

  11. #31
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    I don't think we could run FoW/FoN in a 5c build. Would that be a huge loss? Does 5c offer us anything that 4c wouldn't?
    It is my opinion that Thoughtseize et al. fill the same role as FoW and FoN, and thus shouldn't be played together unless you really need those extra copies.

  12. #32

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemon View Post
    It is my opinion that Thoughtseize et al. fill the same role as FoW and FoN, and thus shouldn't be played together unless you really need those extra copies.
    I disagree a little. FoW and FoN fill a role that TS etc will never be able to fill....that is being a "free" answer. It answers cards on your opponents first turn when they are on the play. Stopping a sphere, chalice, combo, or anything else that matters is a big advantage. What I dislike about is that it is card disadvantage which may or may not matter depending on what you "have to" pitch.

  13. #33
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    I tried fooling around with with 5C but it seems too crowded. For example:

    The core w/o Burning wish is:

    16 Lands
    4 Petal
    12 Combo (Breakthrough/BF/LED)
    1 Win

    You're probably increasing the lands by at least 1 and adding in 4 Astrolab's just to deal with the color commitments. Then with 4 BS and 4 Ponders, which are essentially mandatory you already have 45 cards set. That leaves you with 15 cards. With those cards you'll probably run at least 3 Etutors, because otherwise why play white, you'll run probably at least 3 Veils, because why run green otherwise, and at least 3 discard and some number of Infernal Tutor (and maybe sluice), because why run black otherwise. That's at least 11-12 cards leaving you only 3-4 other cards which should all be protection related due to the fact you're running only 3 veils + 3 discards thus far. That protection can't be FOW simply because you're not running enough blue cards, so you'll probably up that to 4 veil and 4 discard, leaving you about 2 cards extra for protection. That could probably be Defense Grid and Silence, and the 5C deck looks a bit like a mess and doesn't look like it can do anything that the 4C build can't do?

    @Lemon: FYI you misquoted me as saying "I don't think we could run FoW/FoN in a 5c build. Would that be a huge loss? Does 5c offer us anything that 4c wouldn't?" when it was shojeel. That said I completely agree with him.
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  14. #34

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    I tried fooling around with with 5C but it seems too crowded. For example:

    The core w/o Burning wish is:

    16 Lands
    4 Petal
    12 Combo (Breakthrough/BF/LED)
    1 Win

    You're probably increasing the lands by at least 1 and adding in 4 Astrolab's just to deal with the color commitments. Then with 4 BS and 4 Ponders, which are essentially mandatory you already have 45 cards set. That leaves you with 15 cards. With those cards you'll probably run at least 3 Etutors, because otherwise why play white, you'll run probably at least 3 Veils, because why run green otherwise, and at least 3 discard and some number of Infernal Tutor (and maybe sluice), because why run black otherwise. That's at least 11-12 cards leaving you only 3-4 other cards which should all be protection related due to the fact you're running only 3 veils + 3 discards thus far. That protection can't be FOW simply because you're not running enough blue cards, so you'll probably up that to 4 veil and 4 discard, leaving you about 2 cards extra for protection. That could probably be Defense Grid and Silence, and the 5C deck looks a bit like a mess and doesn't look like it can do anything that the 4C build can't do?

    @Lemon: FYI you misquoted me as saying "I don't think we could run FoW/FoN in a 5c build. Would that be a huge loss? Does 5c offer us anything that 4c wouldn't?" when it was shojeel. That said I completely agree with him.
    I don't think that E-Tutor is a must in a 5c build. The only cards I see being needed from white is some number of chant effects (2-3). If the deck plays B-Wish then I could see Savinne's Rec in the SB. 4 Veil and 4 Discard would be crucial. I think the question in 5c is what color do you play as your second most played color? I think it has to be B or R, but I guess a case could be made for W for E-Tutor (I just don't like the card). Maybe something like this:

    4 Underworld Breach

    Win Con (5)
    3 Brain Freeze
    3 Burning Wish

    Fast Mana and Fixing (11)
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Arcum's Astrolabe

    Selection (12)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Thoughtscour

    Protection (10)
    3/4 Veil of Summer
    4 Thoughtseize
    2/3 Silence

    Lands (16)
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    3 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Swamp

  15. #35
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    I don't think you would play white just for 2 silence effects? White's draw is Etutor. Your deck will probably improve if you cut white go down to a 4C mana base and replace the 2 silence's with Veil + discard/draw. If you don't like Etutor, you don't play white and you make due with Infernal tutor or just more draw spells (or Bob, a suggestion I like, and Library, my own suggestion which I'm itching to try once I get out of work).
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by shojeel View Post
    I think you are looking at IT as an all-in card only. It can also turn itself into any other card in your hand.
    It can. But because we're an A+B+C+protection deck, most of the time we want to find a card that's not already in hand, unlike ANT where finding extra rituals is enough to go off. Finding a 2nd Breach or 2nd Silence is useful in some scenarios, but probably less often than in other IT decks. Finding a cantrip for 2 mana at sorcery speed (huge tempo cost) is pretty bad. Unless it can find exactly what your hand needs most times, would IT be better as some other card?

    One of the Grixis builds linked in the primer uses Wishclaw Talisman instead of IT for its flexibility without LED. TES has started doing the same. Wishclaw may deserve a look. It also turns on Mox Opal to improve fixing for 4c.


    Quote Originally Posted by shojeel View Post
    I think with the non-G builds we want to use our mana every turn, including T1 (unless saving for a BS and fetch for T2), but in most cases I want to cast ponder, preordain, astrolabe, or thoughtseize on T1.
    Mana optimization seems important. Thoughtseize does help that, by allowing you to spend protection mana on any turn instead of on the combo turn.

    Have you tested Astrolabe in real games? I ran it many iterations ago and cut it, finding it too slow. If you do run it, it makes Mox Opal better.


    Quote Originally Posted by shojeel View Post
    I'll get some games in with the UBrg list tonight. My gut tells me that UBRw is correct though....at least for 4c.
    Check out the the 4c 5-0 lists linked in the primer. They may be a good starting point.


    Quote Originally Posted by shojeel View Post
    Is there a 5c list we should try?
    5C is a big hit to the manabase. There has to be a really good reason for each color. Otherwise 4c seems better.

    Before Breach was printed, I goldfished 300+ games across many different iterations of the deck in different color combinations and different manabases. Even 4C started causing mana consistency issues. 5C has mana problems. Astrolabe and Opal could help. Test it out. I think unless you can really justify each color, fewer colors is better in a meta where Delver and D&T are tier 1. Fair blue decks are currently favorable matchups for the Jeskai build. That could change with a switch to 5C.

  17. #37
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    I tried fooling around with with 5C but it seems too crowded. For example:

    ... you'll probably run at least 3 Etutors, because otherwise why play white, you'll run probably at least 3 Veils, because why run green otherwise, and at least 3 discard and some number of Infernal Tutor (and maybe sluice), because why run black otherwise. That's at least 11-12 cards leaving you only 3-4 other cards .... so you'll probably up that to 4 veil and 4 discard, leaving you about 2 cards extra for protection.
    I agree. We don't have a lot of flex slots, and you have to devote more space to fixing. It seems crowded. Does the benefit justify the cost?

    ETutor also gets worse when you don't run the ETutor package (Grinding Station main, Seal main or SB, etc). If you don't run the package and have another maindeck tutor (IT or Burning Wish), maybe you don't want ETutor at all. At that point, do you even need white just for Silence? Veil + Defense Grid could be good enough. Sevinne's can be in the Wishboard without any white sources main. LED/Petal/Astrolabe makes white.

  18. #38

    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    I have been playing real games with the 4c. 5c will happen tonight or tomorrow. And Iíll play in at least a league tomorrow. I think you are underestimating silence, but maybe I am wrong and tutor is better. I will try it out but I have had plenty of goldfishing to turn 2-5 where silence with backup Veil is really good. Astrolabe enables a lot of ďoff colorĒ interaction. I donít like E-tutor but I do like Chants and Mentor plus StP in the side. Chants are also really good in the mirror or TES and most other combo decks.

    For additional fixing I can see Mox Opal. Maybe cutting preordain? Switch B-wish to Wishclaws? I like have answers in the side, mostly because we have no more ďfreeĒ interaction due to FoW getting cut. E-tutor in that slot almost forces us to run a Seal and a G-Station.

    In any case, I think it comes down to me realizing that we donít need to go faster. We need to interact and stop our opponent when and if we need to. This makes me miss FoW but I digress. We donít need to be fast, we need to set ourselves up so our opponents canít stop us.

    I look forward to some real 5c games.

  19. #39
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    Pact of Negation is often overlooked as one of the best cards in the deck when going off. The fact that itís free after an initial use helps because you donít need a mana investment when itís in your graveyard - just three cards. But thatís been critical every time Iíve won games having a ďfreeĒ counter.

  20. #40
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    Re: [Deck] A Cold Day in Hell (Breach Freeze)

    I like your Grixis build. How useful was Bob? What was your loss to in the Legacy Prelim?

    Dystopia and Plague Engineer are interesting. I'm guessing you chose 3cc answers on purpose (Chalice, Prelate)? How did they perform? Did Dystopia ever kill an Oko?


    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Pact of Negation is often overlooked as one of the best cards in the deck when going off. The fact that itís free after an initial use helps because you donít need a mana investment when itís in your graveyard - just three cards. But thatís been critical every time Iíve won games having a ďfreeĒ counter.
    I agree. Pact is very strong. Most good Jeskai lists run 1-2 copies. Jbinder's RUG build runs 2 copies.

    There was a lot of discussion about it in the old thread. If you carefully manage your graveyard size, Pact is active at all windows of interaction!

    Cast Breach (Pact is in your hand to counter their spell)
    Breach resolves
    Crack LED for UUU (Pact goes to graveyard before opponent has priority and can be immediately escaped)
    combo off (Pact is in graveyard to escape)
    etc..

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  1. LarsLeif