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Thread: Angels and Goblins

  1. #1

    Angels and Goblins

    Storm Dennis ruined my weekend so I decided to try out mtgo. Turns out all the goblins are very cheap so tried this. The idea is you can use lackey and winstigator plus matron to find and drop in angels. Why angels? Chancellor helps lackey connect.

    I won a match vs blue karn sai in the two person queue then went 2-3 in a league so 3-3 overall. I beat breach and golos cloud post...lost to turbo depths, infect and uwb control. Goblin ringleader is the biggest concern for me due to the low goblin count, I think it needs to get cut and focus on just winning quickly.


    4 goblin lackey
    4 warren instigator
    4 goblin matron
    4 goblin ringleader
    1 goblin cratermaker
    1 goblin piledriver
    1 goblin chieftain
    2 goblin warchief
    1 krenko, mob boss
    1 morophon, the boundless
    1 siege-gang commander
    2 tarfire
    1 stingscourger
    2 daze
    2 arcane adaptation
    3 artificial evolution
    1 iona, shield of emeria
    3 chancellor of the annex

    4 chrome mox
    2 karakas
    2 volcanic island
    4 arid mesa
    4 bloodstained mire
    2 wooded foothills
    4 mountain

    SB
    1 goblin trashmaster
    1 goblin chainwhirler
    3 thorn of amethyst
    3 spell pierce
    3 abrade
    4 faerie macabre
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  2. #2
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    Re: Angels and Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Storm Dennis ruined my weekend so I decided to try out mtgo. Turns out all the goblins are very cheap so tried this. The idea is you can use lackey and winstigator plus matron to find and drop in angels. Why angels? Chancellor helps lackey connect.

    I won a match vs blue karn sai in the two person queue then went 2-3 in a league so 3-3 overall. I beat breach and golos cloud post...lost to turbo depths, infect and uwb control. Goblin ringleader is the biggest concern for me due to the low goblin count, I think it needs to get cut and focus on just winning quickly.


    4 goblin lackey
    4 warren instigator
    4 goblin matron
    4 goblin ringleader
    1 goblin cratermaker
    1 goblin piledriver
    1 goblin chieftain
    2 goblin warchief
    1 krenko, mob boss
    1 morophon, the boundless
    1 siege-gang commander
    2 tarfire
    1 stingscourger
    2 daze
    2 arcane adaptation
    3 artificial evolution
    1 iona, shield of emeria
    3 chancellor of the annex

    4 chrome mox
    2 karakas
    2 volcanic island
    4 arid mesa
    4 bloodstained mire
    2 wooded foothills
    4 mountain

    SB
    1 goblin trashmaster
    1 goblin chainwhirler
    3 thorn of amethyst
    3 spell pierce
    3 abrade
    4 faerie macabre
    what were your games like when you did lose? i've always liked instigator with kikijiki and goblin settler. i'd also consider upping the morophon and then you could consider running munitions expert. it can also help you connect with lackey/instigator.
    -rob

  3. #3

    Re: Angels and Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    what were your games like when you did lose? i've always liked instigator with kikijiki and goblin settler. i'd also consider upping the morophon and then you could consider running munitions expert. it can also help you connect with lackey/instigator.
    Vs. depths I could have won game two but messed up on modo with artificial evolution. Didn't read the prompt...you need to first type in goblin then angel. However, they can goldfish faster and annoyingly elvish reclaimer has two toughness to block lackey and instigator. I cheaped out on not buying wastelands on modo but think they're necessary if I run this again. Plus something in the board too...like blood moon or needle. I would also want one Akroma, Angel of Wrath in the board as it's good vs. the token. I don't think it'll ever be positive though.

    Vs. UWB control the chancellor's and artificial evolutions weren't very good but it's too many slots to swap out. I cheaped out on not buying caverns too so that didn't help.

    Vs. Infect I got game two but not having wastelands hurts here a lot.

    ScatmanX also suggested Kikki/Settler. Instigator into matron into getting an angel only works with adaptation, and ringleader only works with adaptation too.

    I think this looks better for the goblins focused version (might be able to squeeze in black), there might be an all in version with just lackey/instigator/matron plus a couple of utility goblins plus show and tell/digeridoo.


    4 goblin lackey
    4 warren instigator
    4 goblin matron
    4 goblin ringleader
    1 goblin cratermaker
    1 goblin piledriver
    1 goblin chieftain
    1 sling gang lieutenant
    1 krenko, mob boss
    1 morophon, the boundless
    1 siege-gang commander
    1 goblin settler
    1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
    1 tarfire
    2 munitions expert
    1 stingscourger

    2 daze
    4 arcane adaptation
    3 chancellor of the annex

    3 chrome mox
    2 karakas
    2 volcanic island
    1 badlands
    2 cavern of souls
    3 arid mesa
    4 bloodstained mire
    3 wasteland
    3 mountain

    SB
    1 akroma, angel of wrath
    1 Iona, shield of emeria
    1 goblin trashmaster
    1 goblin chainwhirler
    4 thorn of amethyst
    3 abrade
    4 leyline of the void
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  4. #4
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    Re: Angels and Goblins

    Goblin Ringleader is pretty bad with a low Goblin count. It shines with 33-34 Goblins, when the expected number of Goblins drawn is a bit over 2. When Vial Goblins boards in a lot of hate, reducing the Goblin count below 30, they often board out Ringleaders first because they get worse with the more nonGoblin cards in the deck.

    Munitions Expert is strong. Not only does it help Lackey connect and kill Delver, but it comes out free with Morophon in play.

    Without any Aether Vials, I think you want 4 Cavern of Souls. The deck really slows down if Lackey or Instigator gets countered.


    //Mana: 24
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Scalding Tarn
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Badlands
    1 Snow-Covered Swamp
    4 Snow-Covered Mountain
    4 Chrome Mox

    //Goblins: 27
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Warren Instigator
    3 Munitions Expert
    1 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Matron
    2 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Goblin Chainwhirler
    1 Goblin Trashmaster
    1 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
    1 Goblin Settler
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    2 Morophon, the Boundless

    //Angels: 4
    4 Chancellor of the Annex

    //Spells: 5
    1 Tarfire
    4 Arcane Adaptation

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Ashen Rider
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Warren Weirding
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Abrade
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Leyline of the Void

  5. #5
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    Re: Angels and Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    The idea is you can use lackey and winstigator plus matron to find and drop in angels. Why angels? Chancellor helps lackey connect.
    Why Angels? Chancellor has value, but otherwise there's no reason to stick to the Angel tribe. You can cheat in any creature of any type. I hear Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Griselbrand, Progenitus, and Sire of Insanity are good creatures.

  6. #6

    Re: Angels and Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Why Angels? Chancellor has value, but otherwise there's no reason to stick to the Angel tribe. You can cheat in any creature of any type. I hear Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Griselbrand, Progenitus, and Sire of Insanity are good creatures.
    Without artificial evolution I agree there's no need to stick with angels. I think adding emrakul and/or grizzly to your list would be good, or going the all in combo route like Michael Keller's list in here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ght=Didgeridoo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  7. #7
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    Re: Angels and Goblins

    i really like mirror entity here as well. have you tried this as well?
    -rob

  8. #8

    Re: Angels and Goblins

    I ran this in a pre innistrad event earlier in the week going 2-1 on modo. Beat painter and dream halls, lost to wgu midrange due to terravore. It's open to the community and we've got a discord, https://discord.gg/E4gfzy3 . My list was close to the op list but 4 artificial evolution, 4 piledriver, 3 siege gang commander, plus 4 relic in the sb then minus the cards printed innistrad onward which aren't legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  9. #9
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    Re: Angels and Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    I ran this in a pre innistrad event earlier in the week going 2-1 on modo. Beat painter and dream halls, lost to wgu midrange due to terravore. It's open to the community and we've got a discord, https://discord.gg/E4gfzy3 . My list was close to the op list but 4 artificial evolution, 4 piledriver, 3 siege gang commander, plus 4 relic in the sb then minus the cards printed innistrad onward which aren't legal.
    I could see this being good pre-Innistrad for a lot of reasons, one of which being that WInstigator Goblins was actually a tier deck back then. Your creatures of type Goblin are enough to get wins. Just adding Chancellors, even if you can't pull off the combo, improves the worst matchups (fast combo), at the expense of some consistency in the grindy matches. Chancellor also slows down their defense for Lackey, which helps the engine a lot.

    Goblins doesn't have to struggle with Terravore (I assume it was Aggro Loam with Knight of the Reliquary, Goyf and maybe Countryside Crusher). Postboard Relic of the Progenitus is strong at keeping their fatties small and Stingscourger is good at removing blockers for tempo.

    Tarfire is much worse in that meta due to the dominance of Goyf before Innistrad (SCM, Terminus). Giving Goyf the extra +1/+1 is a big deal. Meanwhile without cards like Delver or DRS or Thalia, you don't need the 1-mana removal as badly. The main reason to consider Tarfire would be to deal with Stoneforge Mystic, which both blocks Lackey and threatens Batterskull. SFM was Goblins' biggest problem and is a good reason to run answers. Otherwise Mogg War Marshal does some work holding down midrangey Goyf decks and giving you bodies for Gempalm Incinerator, which was premium removal back then (but too slow to answer SFM).

    Goblin Chieftain is better than Goblin Warchief in WInstigator lists (you already have more cheatyface but need more buffs to get them through) and makes Stingscourger into a better tempo trick, justifying up to 2 copies.

    Piledriver started getting worse in that meta, with stuff like Batterskull, Goyf and Knight gumming up the ground. It's better to diversify 2 drops than go 4 Piledrivers.

    For Goblin bombs, Kiki-Jiki is strong in WInstigator lists and better than playing 3 SGCs. Kiki is stronger in WInstigator lists because you can Matron -> Kiki off 1 attack and still copy the Matron for something else if they remove Kiki, with no loss of tempo or card advantage.

    You can even consider the Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Goblin Settler combo, which autowins some games. You can assemble it off a single Matron. Just 1 WInstigator attack gives you Matron -> Kiki in play. If they remove your guys, you tap Kiki to copy Matron and get some card advantage (Ringleader, etc). But if they haven't answered your board, on their End Step you copy Matron to get Settler (copy does not die yet, you can attack with it!). Then on your turn you cast Settler (or cheat it off Instigator) and copy it with Kiki. Destroy 2 lands. And you keep threatening to destroy more lands. This really wrecks some matchups if unstopped.

    Ringleader is very strong but gets worse as you go below 30 Goblins. Board it out when you bring in many nonGoblins. In other matchups, board out the combo for utility Goblins and Ringleader becomes MVP.

    I'd play something like this


    //Goblins: 30
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Warren Instigator
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Stingscourger
    2 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Goblin Settler
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 Siege-Gang Commander

    //Angel Combo: 8
    4 Artificial Evolution
    4 Chancellor of the Annex

    //Mana: 22
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Mountain
    4 Wasteland

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Tarfire
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Faerie Macabre
    3 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Pyrokinesis
    2 Pyroblast
    3 Thorn of Amethyst
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria


    Scrapper is a necessity vs Stoneblade and random Stax decks, synergizes very well with Kiki.

    Sharpshooter, Tarfire and Pyrokinesis deal with D&T, Elves, Goblins mirrors, Maverick, etc

    Relic is good against all the midrange Goyf piles (UGx Thresh, Aggro Loam, Team America).

    You should expect to do worse against random blue decks, Goblins' usual bread and butter, for a couple reasons:
    - combo means higher variance draws and FoW vulnerability
    - no Vial
    - no Port
    - less card advantage from Ringleader with more nonGoblin cards

    On the plus side, just having Chancellors MD means you do much better against traditionally terrible matchups like UB Reanimator, LED Dredge, Belcher, ANT and Doomsday and you make it harder for fair decks to interact with turn 1 Lackey.

    Edit: Artificial Evolution has relevant text in some matchups!
    -1 cmc destroy target Engineered Plague
    -messes with enemy lords in Merfolk.dec, notably turning Lord of Atlantis into Goblin King for the blowout
    -nullifies Wirewood Symbiote and Heritage Druid in Elves.dec
    -counters Tivadar's Crusade (used to be in SBs back in the day)
    -turns off Starlit Sanctum so Clerics.dec can't gain infinite life
    Last edited by FTW; 03-29-2020 at 01:55 PM.

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