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Thread: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

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    Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    So, this deck is basically a meme deck. Except, it can kind of win, every once in a while.

    Here is a "current list:"

    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Castle Locthwain
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 City of Traitors
    8 Snow-Covered Swamp
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Night's Whisper

    2 Murderous Rider
    2 Plague Engineer

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    2 Helm of Obedience
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    4 Leyline of the Void

    1 Curse of Death's Hold
    4 Curse of Misfortunes
    1 Curse of Fool's Wisdom
    1 Cruel Reality
    1 Overwhelming Splendor

    SIDEBOARD
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Dreamstealer
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Lost Legacy
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 To the Slaughter
    1 Curse of Exhaustion
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Massacre
    1 Mycosynth Lattice

    You can see Phil @ThabenU go 4-1. Or, while the replay lasts, Arkan @Legacy_Council go 5-0.

    Mostly, I think that "fair" Dark Ritual strategies are a little better than we'd likely think, that is to say, solidly T2, maybe even T1.5 if the matchups break your way.

    Anyway, I think we are likely to see Arkan's result published come the weekend, so this is a little heads up. Note, this is not my list, but comes from someone named reeplecheep on Twitch.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

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    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    The Mono Rat Stompy list I posted here on Chinese New Year got some decent wins against Xerox decks and combo decks, despite being made for lulz. I'm not surprised to see Curse Stompy get some wins too.

    The following core of 40 cards is very powerful, especially against certain metas:


    //Lands:
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    10 other lands

    //Permanents:
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    4 Leyline of the Void


    Karn is a huge boost to black stompy strategies and makes the HelmLine combo much more viable.

    Supplement that with any form of creature control and win conditions and it will win some games. I did it with 4 Pack Rat + a bunch of silly rats. Planeswalkers + tokens + Contamination lock would work. I guess Curses work too.

    I would recommend moving 2 Helms to the SB. Helm is a dead draw without the combo, and Stax decks are already weak to bad topdecks. 4x Karn is enough to find it game 1. Game 2 you can board 1-2 in if Karn isn't reliable enough for some matchups. Something like another Plague Engineer or Murderous Rider just seems more interactive. 90% of the time my extra Helms were just used as Pack Rat fodder - I wished it was even Scathe Zombies so it could pitch to Chrome Mox.

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    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    I agree in general. The shell there has an ability to just "steal games" on it's own, from Chalice cutting off a CMC to Trinisphere just stopping spells if they didn't draw enough lands.

    I think the "upside" here is that Dark Ritual can sometimes accelerate one of those things out, which makes it more likely to actually lock the game. Of course, the inherent tension between Rituals and Chalice/Trini will cost you come games too. Really, as you point out, once you have an effective lock piece in play, you can probably win the game with anything.

    The Curses do have the added "bonus" of being immune to Decay, or any creature removal at all, and most decks have few answers to a five-CMC Enchantment. So, in some cases, Ritualing that out, just wins. Of course, they are also super clunky and you will loose to Delver decks when they just do the Turn-1-Delver-Wasteland-I-Drew-Two-Forces-And-A-Daze thing, but that is just life in Legacy.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

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    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I agree in general. The shell there has an ability to just "steal games" on it's own, from Chalice cutting off a CMC to Trinisphere just stopping spells if they didn't draw enough lands.
    It's the combination of the resistors plus a lot of decks depending on graveyard resources. Maindeck Leyline steals games: Reanimator, Dredge, Hogaak, Lands, Breach (before ban), Emry, Salvagers, ANT, Zombardment. It also shuts down value engines in other decks: Dreadhorde Arcanist, Gurmag Angler, Snapcaster, Reclaimer/Knight beatdown, Ramunap Wastelock, KComm, Accumulated Knowledge, Punishing Fire, Echo of Eons, etc. Most decks don't have a way to answer Leyline in game 1.

    Karn is also a very strong card and can win the game out of nowhere with Mycosynth Lattice or Helm of Obedience. The static ability shuts off mana rocks, which impedes their ability to fight through Trinisphere. It can also fetch singleton tools like Ensnaring Bridge, Sorcerous Spyglass or Liquimetal Coating to bail you out of bad spots.

    Even Urborg has a neat ability to help fix for double black costs and stop Ancient Tomb damage, fixing 2 weaknesses of Stompy manabases.

    So I wouldn't just say Chalice and 3sphere, but the combination of all those cards together. Adding additional card advantage, creature removal and win conditions rounds out the deck.

    In the OP list I'm not so sure about that Night's Whisper. Something like Phyrexian Arena, Liliana of the Veil or even Phyrexian Rager seems better, especially with the Dark Rituals & 3balls.

  5. #5

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    I've prized a number of times of times locally with md rip/helm or leyline/helm decks. In mono black I think it's the best oko proof way to win (as long as you cast helm with 1 free). The curses might be the second best option. The core protection is obviously very good with chalice/3sphere/2019mtg.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

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    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    So I wouldn't just say Chalice and 3sphere, but the combination of all those cards together. Adding additional card advantage, creature removal and win conditions rounds out the deck.

    In the OP list I'm not so sure about that Night's Whisper. Something like Phyrexian Arena, Liliana of the Veil or even Phyrexian Rager seems better, especially with the Dark Rituals & 3balls.
    Yeah, I didn't mean that to be an exhaustive list, but just a couple relatively "common" examples. Of course Leyline and Karn can also just seal a game here or there in certain matchups.

    Phyrexian Arena is interesting though, as is Liliana, since the deck can have trouble versus a quick Delver. One "neat" thing about Liliana of the Veil is that she can help empty your hand as well, which is good for the Castle and for Bridge (although if you have Bridge, you are likely going to win in any case, but it is possible you draw Curses you can't cast, or something like that).
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  7. #7

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Hey Everyone,

    Finally made a MTGsource account. Free to take any questions about the list. 5-0'd a league and went 3-0 into 4-5 in the qualifier so I think the deck has real legs as alternative to moon stompy when blood moon is bad and leyline of the void is good (ie now)

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    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Hey Everyone,

    Finally made a MTGsource account. Free to take any questions about the list. 5-0'd a league and went 3-0 into 4-5 in the qualifier so I think the deck has real legs as alternative to moon stompy when blood moon is bad and leyline of the void is good (ie now)
    Neat, you might want to add some insights you've found on the matchups you've faced. What gives you trouble, which can give people an idea of what cards might help.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  9. #9

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Neat, you might want to add some insights you've found on the matchups you've faced. What gives you trouble, which can give people an idea of what cards might help.
    Would the best way be to write a mini-primer?

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    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Would the best way be to write a mini-primer?
    Sure, that would work. Or, just a post about your tournament experiences. If you go the Primer route, I will edit it into the first post, crediting you for it of course.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  11. #11

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Sure, that would work. Or, just a post about your tournament experiences. If you go the Primer route, I will edit it into the first post, crediting you for it of course.
    Ok first league went 5-0 vs Reanimator, infect, maverick, RUG Delver, and 5c Snow. Next 2 went 50-50, faced mostly aggro.

    Super qualifier went 3-0 vs 2 snoko & Bryant Cook on TES. Then faced a bunch of aggro and ended up 4-5. As a medium elo player a good deal of my losses were due to punts/poor play, but still felt good to go 50% vs some of the best in the world on my brew.

    I wanted to make a stompy deck that can beat oko & combo and feel I succeeded. As mentioned above, I think I was too greedy to beat aggro and need to make slight changes.

    nights whisper is because we need card draw (are land count is a bit low for our curve) and every time I played an early game 1BB card it was a disaster. Treacherous blessing and bob are alternatives but those will definitely kill you. Rager is an idea but I think the deck prefers a card in hand over a chump blocker.

    Best Matchups are TES, Show & tell, dredge & D&T(post-side)

    Worst matchups are depths by far, and then eldrazi.

  12. #12

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Ok first league went 5-0 vs Reanimator, infect, maverick, RUG Delver, and 5c Snow. Next 2 went 50-50, faced mostly aggro.

    Super qualifier went 3-0 vs 2 snoko & Bryant Cook on TES. Then faced a bunch of aggro and ended up 4-5. As a medium elo player a good deal of my losses were due to punts/poor play, but still felt good to go 50% vs some of the best in the world on my brew.

    I wanted to make a stompy deck that can beat oko & combo and feel I succeeded. As mentioned above, I think I was too greedy to beat aggro and need to make slight changes.

    nights whisper is because we need card draw (are land count is a bit low for our curve) and every time I played an early game 1BB card it was a disaster. Treacherous blessing and bob are alternatives but those will definitely kill you. Rager is an idea but I think the deck prefers a card in hand over a chump blocker.

    Best Matchups are TES, Show & tell, dredge & D&T(post-side)

    Worst matchups are depths by far, and then eldrazi.
    I think you could shave three cards to put in md bridges to help vs depths/eldrazi/delver. I'd cut the two whispers plus one 3sphere I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  13. #13

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    I think you could shave three cards to put in md bridges to help vs depths/eldrazi/delver. I'd cut the two whispers plus one 3sphere I think.
    Because we have additional colourless wincons (helm) I have to be quite cogniscent of black count for mox. In my experience the deck's curve is way too high to quickly dump cards for bridge. Obviously still good enough against lage and eldrazi, but the rest of the creature decks can easily sneak under.

    I do agree that whisper is too greedy to consistently beat aggro. Also fools wisdom was added to make sure you always have 3 curses to search for if one gets exiled but its by far the worse. Wondering if its worth not playing and just accept my beats if I draw 2 curses. Considering -1 fools wisdom -2 whisper -1 rider + 1 swamp +2 brutality +1 plague engineer.

    Brutality also helps with dead cards problem and makes me faster to play to the board, thoughts?

  14. #14

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Because we have additional colourless wincons (helm) I have to be quite cogniscent of black count for mox. In my experience the deck's curve is way too high to quickly dump cards for bridge. Obviously still good enough against lage and eldrazi, but the rest of the creature decks can easily sneak under.

    I do agree that whisper is too greedy to consistently beat aggro. Also fools wisdom was added to make sure you always have 3 curses to search for if one gets exiled but its by far the worse. Wondering if its worth not playing and just accept my beats if I draw 2 curses. Considering -1 fools wisdom -2 whisper -1 rider + 1 swamp +2 brutality +1 plague engineer.

    Brutality also helps with dead cards problem and makes me faster to play to the board, thoughts?
    I think your changes would improve the deck, but I don't think they help much vs. your bad matchups. Co bru would help turn on bridge. Might be best just to punt depths though if it is good vs. most other decks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  15. #15

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    I think your changes would improve the deck, but I don't think they help much vs. your bad matchups. Co bru would help turn on bridge. Might be best just to punt depths though if it is good vs. most other decks.
    Eldrazi is actually even post board. You just have 8 cards dead g1, and you aren't favoured post board like you are vs d&T or goblins. This is due to plague engineer not being as much of beating so its negative overall. You are correct that I should probably not concentrate too many slots on it.

    One thing I have been doing that is perhaps is incorrect is leaving bridge in the board. Perhaps I should board it in because if I untap with karn I probably win. Thoughts?

  16. #16
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    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    If you're struggling against aggro, why not cut some of the maindeck durdle (Night's Whisper, extra Helms) for more creatures to interact early.

    Black stompy has access to some great value creatures:

    Plague Engineer
    Plaguecrafter
    Ophiomancer
    Wasteland Strangler
    Dusk Urchins
    Pestilent Spirit
    Virtus the Veiled

    Any of the deathtouch + value creatures should help protect your life.

    Wasteland Stranger has cool synergy with Leyline of the Void.

    Dusk Urchins trades with an X/3 or X/2 and draws cards.

    Virtus is an overcosted deathtoucher, but it has the ability to end games very quickly unblocked, forcing blocks.

    Plaguecrafter kills Oko if they don't animate an Elk immediately vs an empty board (which they may not always do).

  17. #17

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    All those cards look very good, but they don't seem to provide enough value to drit into, especially in a oko format. Dusk urchin looks very interesting, hadn't seen that card before. worried it might just become a 2/2 or 1/1 elk though before dying.

    Plaguecrafter seems just worse than to the slaughter, to the slaughter can actually kill marit lage and occasionally 2 for 1s. Plague engineer is great and you are probably right I should run more main.

    Helms are very good in combination with dark ritual, is frequently your only out at the end of the game, and provides a lot of t2 or t1 kills. This helps your fair non-blue matchups a ton (lands, 12post, d&T)

    Your overall sentiment of cutting durdle for interaction is correct however. Can you comment on the list I 5-0'd with yesterday? Cut whisper & fools wisdom for lands, collective brutality and more mainboard engineers.

    https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/statu...86094060670977

    Oko is a pretty large problem for this deck and none of those cards answer him as cleanly as murderous rider. The only problem with rider is BB makes him effectively 4 mana, but I'm not sure how much of a problem that is.

  18. #18

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    All those cards look very good, but they don't seem to provide enough value to drit into, especially in a oko format. Dusk urchin looks very interesting, hadn't seen that card before. worried it might just become a 2/2 or 1/1 elk though before dying.

    Plaguecrafter seems just worse than to the slaughter, to the slaughter can actually kill marit lage and occasionally 2 for 1s. Plague engineer is great and you are probably right I should run more main.

    Helms are very good in combination with dark ritual, is frequently your only out at the end of the game, and provides a lot of t2 or t1 kills. This helps your fair non-blue matchups a ton (lands, 12post, d&T)

    Your overall sentiment of cutting durdle for interaction is correct however. Can you comment on the list I 5-0'd with yesterday? Cut whisper & fools wisdom for lands, collective brutality and more mainboard engineers.

    https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/statu...86094060670977

    Oko is a pretty large problem for this deck and none of those cards answer him as cleanly as murderous rider. The only problem with rider is BB makes him effectively 4 mana, but I'm not sure how much of a problem that is.
    The rider bb is tough...sorcerous spyglass might be one option there? Spyglass would be better vs. every oko deck, every lands deck, and sneak attack. Both would be good vs. vial decks. Rider is better vs. eldazi and ur delver, but spy still stops wasteland. Both r bad vs led decks (edit).
    Last edited by kinda; 04-06-2020 at 04:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  19. #19

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    The rider bb is tough...sorcerous spyglass might be one option there? Spyglass would be better vs. every oko deck, every lands deck, every led deck, and sneak attack. Both would be good vs. vial decks. Rider is better vs. eldazi and ur delver, but spy still stops wasteland.
    I do bring in spyglass in from the sideboard in those matchups. The life link on rider is very nice. Spyglass main is a tough ask just because I am very close to the minimum black cards for chrome mox to be excellent (similar to blue count for fow, 20)

    Also spyglass doesn't do anything vs ant, and vs tes it only hits wishclaw. LED is a mana ability

  20. #20

    Re: Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

    Tuned the list. List is much less greedy and is a bit lower to the ground, improving the aggro matchup quite a bit. Sideboard maps out very cleanly. Chains is also nice as 5th chalice. Because of chains swapped castle for ifnir: untapped land as mentioned earlier plus uncounterable, colourless delver/arcanist/thalia killing is nice.

    Went 3-2 in the prelim, only losing 2 close game 3s to show & tell.

    9 Snow-Covered Swamp
    2 Helm of Obedience
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Curse of Death's Hold
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Cruel Reality
    2 Ifnir Deadlands
    1 Overwhelming Splendor
    4 Curse of Misfortunes
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Chrome Mox
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    3 Plague Engineer
    2 Murderous Rider

    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    2 To the Slaughter
    1 Curse of Exhaustion
    1 Plague Engineer
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Helm of Obedience
    2 Collective Brutality
    1 Vault of Whispers
    2 Slaughter Pact

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