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Thread: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

  1. #1

    [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    So, looking at the spoilers revealed so far for Ikoria, cycling makes a surprise return, and even more surprising, they stopped adding random amounts of mana to all the cards casting and cycling costs. So, based on what we've seen so far, this is a potentially not horrible list.

    Enchantments - 8
    4x Astral Drift
    4x Lightning Rift

    Planeswalkers - 5
    3x Oko, Thief of Crowns
    2x Teferi, Time Raveler

    Instants - 15
    3x Swords to Plowshares
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Force of Will
    4x Censor

    Artifacts - 4
    4x Arcum's Astrolabe

    Creatures - 7
    4x Yidaro, the Wanderer
    3x Ice-Fang Coatl

    Lands - 21
    4x Prismatic Vista
    4x Ash Barrens
    4x Snow-Covered Island
    3x Snow-Covered Plains
    2x Snow-Covered Forest
    2x Snow-Covered Mountain
    1x Irrigated Farmland
    1x Sheltered Thicket

    Sideboard
    3x Containment Priest
    4x Leyline of Sanctity
    2x Red Elemental Blast
    2x Rest in Peace
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Blood Moon

    Not entirely sure about that list, it's more of a starting point, but there's a ton of cyclers and cards that otherwise replace themselves, you've got some countermagic and a bunch of removal, and your win conditions all double as other effects. You're immune to most mana denial, and you've got a lot of game vs. other 'walkers with Rift. Maybe Sweltering Suns should be in there somewhere? 18 cyclers total, and another 13 cards with the text "draw a card" on them. Maybe Teferi should be Narset? Maybe you need the fourth Oko? I dunno. Also not certain about the sideboard. Might also be correct to ditch Oko, Coatl, Arcum's, and the color green but that seems like a lot of power you'd be giving up for not a ton of reasons. Not a huge fan of the Farmland and Thicket, just mostly needed another two cyclers in the manabase and didn't have any great options after the Ash Barrens.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Astral Drift doesnít really do anything in your deck; youíve got a lot of this 3cmc card that doesnít really do much unless they have made a Marit Lage. I mean itís cool to upgrade an Astro to a 3/3, swing, and then flicker back to an ETB artifact...but itís all a bit slow. You can add the cycling-turtle to the mix and some addition dead draws (Lightning Rift), but you could also just replace those 12 cards with a single copy of Sevinneís, 2 copies of Uro, some Snapcasters, and some other value staples.

    To even begin thinking about the cycling-Turtle, your deck is probably starting with Karakas. Given how slow getting that 8/8 is going to be, you kinda need Karakas anyways as a Ďspellí to maybe not die to Reanimator or SnT, while you build towards cycling him, getting the hit in, bouncing to hand, and endlessly repeating.

    Staying alive is the issue here, as it is with any Oko-centric deck, and youíre slowing down even more and adding in jank (trying to get Astral Drift and Lightning Rift into play and having cycling-turtle in hand), and none of this passes the dies to Goyf test. I donít think there would be an appreciable difference on the outcome of a game where you had those three things versus having 1-card combo Uro. If youíre behind (contrasting to last scenario), Uro by himself is more likely to pass the Goyf test and get you back into the game - playing slow cards does not work well with counting to 20; you should be much more concerned with not dying~gaining life.

    If youíre going to unlock a card like Astral Drift, it kinda needs to count as removal, so youíre probably building around Containment Priest and asking yourself why this is better than Displacer.

    As far as the Oko/Astro/Teferi/Ice-Fang/Veil stuff goes, you donít have creative space to do something that combos. There is a profound lack of slots, and anything you add has to be a 1-card combo (which is why Uro was able to be added). Whatever youíre doing with Astral Drift, itís not playing Oko-magic.

  3. #3
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    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Are you implying that Snowko is weak and needs a boost so badly it would benefit from high-variance control cards?

    Until Oko and Astrolabe are banned this concept seems moot. Slide and Yidaro don't really add anything to shore up Snowko weaknesses.

  4. #4
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    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Are you implying that Snowko is weak and needs a boost so badly it would benefit from high-variance control cards?
    It doesnít need a boost, but we all know the weak point: good combo (see also Breach era). The 4c Oko piles canít really slow down any more (stacking up on 3 drops, 2 mana cyclers, and a do-nothing 2 drop that adds to all cycling costs). You voluntarily slow that shell down by a turn or more and it will lose a whole lot more, particularly to combo with less broken enablers than 2 mana Yawg Will.

  5. #5

    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    I think the weak part of the deck is the Red.

    As mentionned before, it's seems just better to play Uro.

    Harcast Uro->Cycle in response to the trigger.
    Obviously that's expensive, but it's in our colors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  6. #6
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    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    The 4c Oko piles canít really slow down any more (stacking up on 3 drops, 2 mana cyclers, and a do-nothing 2 drop that adds to all cycling costs). You voluntarily slow that shell down by a turn or more and it will lose a whole lot more
    I mean that's exactly what I was saying... adding slow high-variance control cards doesn't help the Snowko shell. It's already tier 1, so unlike some tier 4 deck, adding this conditional engine doesn't improve it unless it surgically addresses the deck's weaknesses (which the Slide engine doesn't).

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Honestly, you guys are looking at this wrong, the correct "fix" to the deck isn't to make it more Snow/Oko oriented, it's to pull the green and view it as a list that's more similar to Miracles, but can deal with 'walkers like Oko very easily thanks to Drift and Rift and eventually, Yidaro.

    Something like:

    Enchatnments - 10
    4x Astral Drift
    4x Lightning Rift
    2x Shark Typhoon

    Instants - 16
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    4x Force of Will (or Force of Negation?)
    4x Censor
    2x Renewed Faith

    Creatures - 4
    4x Yidaro, the Wanderer

    Sorceries - 6
    3x Sweltering Suns
    3x Boon of the Wish Giver (maybe this should be Neutralize? or Heiroglyphic Illumination?)

    Lands - 21
    4x Ash Barrens
    4x Prismatic Vista
    1x Irrigated Farmlands
    4x Island
    4x Plains
    4x Mountain

    That's 27 cyclers, a very stable basic centric manabase, a bunch of uncounterable win cons that hit at instant speed, and lots of board control. Think of it as bad miracles with more removal and better answers for 'walkers and Marit Lage. Maybe Force of Will should be Force of Negation too, not sure how many creature spells you really need to counter for free with this given that all the really threatening creatures you can't stall with Drift don't actually get cast anyways.

  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Right, but you donít have anything to blink with Astral Drift now, so why is it in your deck? It looks a lot like a Forcefield.

    The cycle-turtle does what most strategies [that would want it] need - it acts like a Dreadnought. The issue is that it takes waaaay longer to set up, and these decks have a problem dying early. Itís really close to being the Dreadnought, but you now not only need Wrath-effects, but you also have to not just straight up die to Oko/Uro as well. This is a pretty massive amount of timing window pressure, and the cards probably donít exist to alleviate it.

    We all know you have cycle-turtle, Standstill, Karakas, Teferi, and have thus gotten the PW killer/value engine/uncounterable/uninteractive/combat trick~removal/quick wincon (aka anti-mill) thing solved. The late-game plan is incredibly high quality and completely ignores problems like PWs and milling out, when it gets to this point. The issue remains, you just never get there b/c you didnít have the option to win a bad matchup with ďI guess turn 2 12/12 just wins, cool deck oppo.Ē Thatís one thing you just canít understate with Dreadnought - how easy it is to effortlessly brutalize tier 2 decks, brews, and combo decks without ever going out of your way; they just all naturally lose to us, itís fairly comical. You play cycle-turtle and you end up getting beat down by the random stuff of legacy, b/c your strategy kinda only has one way to play...so you have to react to everything the format has to offer on your trip to your end-game.

    On the Lightning Rift stuff, youíre losing a turn you canít afford to. Their followup is Goyf or Uro or Oko, and youíre kinda screwed, and nothing your deck is doing matters anymore, particularly if your plan is to pay to cycle and pass turn again.

  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Excuse the double post, but letís change gears for a bit here and break down how your list works:
    -Astral Drift doesnít really have text outside of triggering Rift. The opponent wonít ever attack this card with resources.
    -Boon, Censor, and Renewed Faith do nothing outside of triggering Rift.
    -Youíre probably dead before Sharkínado can make a dude that can win the game. Weíre in the losing to the PW stage of the game, if this is making a real threat.
    -Sweltering Suns is like....fine, but far from perfect. Thereís certainly a world where this card can see maindeck play.
    -StP has no recursion, and youíre nowhere near competing onboard (so you need to be able to recast this)

    Youíre not getting to a gamestate where cycle-turtle will appear on board (even if you did, you know their hand has removal for it as you havenít taxed that removal at all before this point). I mean if they just counter Lightning Rift, or you donít find it, or itís not fast enough...youíre just never winning that game. Very linear, very fragile, very slow - just a bad place to be.

    You start out with Karakas, Teferi, cycle-turtle, and Standstill and youíre:
    -onboard with Factory
    -using Teferiís passive (manlands/cycle-turtle); Teferi being able to replace itself and/or answer a problem just by itself.
    -having asymmetry for Standstill (game actions, higher land counts, ability to sometimes go Teferi->then Standstill->pick up Standstill->deploy threat->redeploy Standstill).
    -Karakas to complete the almost completely uninteractive value engine of Teferi + cycle-turtle

    ^weíre doing something coherent and everything is micro-comboing together without being useless by itself. Youíve got this vision for moving the gameplan forward on all fronts with interchangeable parts (oppo canít just FoW or remove one card to great effect). Now just support that plan with some removal and permission and get to that endgame you want. Youíre still straight-up losing to Uro/Oko, but Oko gets banned (should happen soon) and Karakas+StP kinda nullifies Uro as youíre plans are quite a bit larger; like maybe thereís a deck here now with Standstill/game actions punishing the mainstream strategy of cheesing PWs.

    Any time youíre making a brew and it kinda looks like Wilderness Reclamation (i.e. worthless by itself, yet central to everything else in the deck), youíre not making an effective deck. It shouldnít be surprising that do-nothings that compete seem to always be comboing with ETB value scummers (Aluren/Food Chain), and theyíre doing everything they can to tank total copies of the do-nothing card (like Watcher enabled Aluren to drop namesake copies to ~2x).

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Are you always this much of a tool, or are you working extra hard at it during quarantine?

    Dude, you don't know this deck even remotely close to as well as I do, that's fine, pretty much no one does. But stop telling me what the stuff does and how it's played, because it's really clear you don't know what you're talking about.

  11. #11
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    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Are you always this much of a tool, or are you working extra hard at it during quarantine?

    Dude, you don't know this deck even remotely close to as well as I do, that's fine, pretty much no one does. But stop telling me what the stuff does and how it's played, because it's really clear you don't know what you're talking about.
    Your second list straight-up dies to not resolving Lightning Rift.

    -Why is Astral Drift in the second list?
    -What is Astral Drift blinking?
    -Since you donít have blink targets, how is this not directly comparable to a card like Forcefield?
    -How are you going to live long enough to cycle the turtle 4x?
    -The opponent dumped all effort into countering your Lightning Rift, then did something as simple as Surgical the turtle - how can you possibly win? (that shark token isnít gonna bail you out)
    -How are you ever resolving Lightning Rift in this format?

    These are basic observations, so Iím pretty sure Iíve correctly identified that the entire deck fails if you target 1 card.

  12. #12

    Re: [Deck] Four Color SnowDrift

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

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