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Thread: Song of Creation Storm

  1. #101

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    really cool idea w/ the academy rector. do you think manamorphose has a place in this list over dark ritual? is it really necessary to ritual out the rector?
    I don't know really, it does lead to t1/t2 kills when i ritual out an rector, an also it can lead to quick tendrils kills after a EoE. It's also just 1 mana vs 2, so it's easier to use it to get song going (and continues going by casting additional discard spells). But i'm really not sure. It feels like speed is important in the current meta, a lot of t2 Karn, t2 Arcanist in addition to the regular combo decks. I do think you have to change other things as well if you run MM over dark ritual.

    @FTW
    I'm not really sure if i gain anything with 5c rector :) Not played enough, and variance has been a big part of the games i played, both in my favor and not. I also have not tried your version, and only played 1 league with samuraifunns version so it's hard to say. But if i compare it to my 'classic' riddlesmith deck, i feel like this has a better delver and control matchup but probably worse combo matchup. In leagues i'm 4-1 vs delver even with the shaky manabase. The main reason for that is that rector dodges force of negation, spell pierce, spell snare and pyroblasts. I also would say that i probably had a lot of brewers advantage and opponents mistaking me for TES and not boarding in surgicals etc.

    I liked that i could hardcast songs, and ignore gravehate that way but there are probably a lot better rector builds to be found, maybe with Ancient Tomb or cutting colors. I'm going on a (probably) short MTG break for some weeks, will see if i continue with this build then :)

  2. #102
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    In leagues i'm 4-1 vs delver even with the shaky manabase. The main reason for that is that rector dodges force of negation, spell pierce, spell snare and pyroblasts.

    I liked that i could hardcast songs, and ignore gravehate that way but there are probably a lot better rector builds to be found, maybe with Ancient Tomb or cutting colors. I'm going on a (probably) short MTG break for some weeks, will see if i continue with this build then :)
    Good point, having a line to dodge everything but FoW is big, and having another line to dodge all GY hate helps too.

    Thanks for sharing your build. Interesting brew. Too bad the challenge didn't work out.

  3. #103
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    Yes, i'm MartinMedMitten on MTGO.
    You're in the "full spice" category of 5-0 lists. Congrats!

    https://old.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...lists_7182020/

  4. #104

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    You're in the "full spice" category of 5-0 lists. Congrats!

    https://old.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...lists_7182020/
    Wee :)

  5. #105

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Anzidmtg (https://www.twitch.tv/anzidmtg) streamed SamuraiFunns deck on his stream day 166 and my rector variant on day 167. Have not watched 166, but watched 167, it was like a three hour 100 person roast of how bad the deck is. I think it's a hard deck to just pick up and play, and there were a ton of mistakes made but still kind of entertaining.

  6. #106
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    Anzidmtg (https://www.twitch.tv/anzidmtg) streamed SamuraiFunns deck on his stream day 166 and my rector variant on day 167.
    Yeah, as per usual that was pretty painful to watch...

    Glad to see people have kept iterating with the deck though!

  7. #107
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    Anzidmtg (https://www.twitch.tv/anzidmtg) streamed SamuraiFunns deck on his stream day 166 and my rector variant on day 167. Have not watched 166, but watched 167, it was like a three hour 100 person roast of how bad the deck is. I think it's a hard deck to just pick up and play, and there were a ton of mistakes made but still kind of entertaining.
    Yeah, watching that (especially the first 2 rounds) made me realize how hard it is for other people to pick up random storm brews, without knowing why certain cards are included. Even little things like why the manabase configuration is the way it is, which lands to fetch in which order, which protection lines to go for.

    Your explanation at the end also helped me realize why Dark Rit is there. Of course the old Vintage deck had 4x Dark Rit as a backup plan to hardcast Bargain (as well as accelerate out Rector), but it's so awkward with Song.

    Have you played it in any more leagues or challenges since?

  8. #108
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    This is testing really smoothly. I need to get in some leagues.


    //Lands: 15
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Wooded Foothills
    1 Misty Rainforest
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Taiga
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Island

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Song of Creation

    //Artifacts: 19
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Mox Opal
    3 Defense Grid

    //Spells: 22
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Gamble
    4 Rite of Flame
    3 Veil of Summer
    4 Burning Wish
    3 Echo of Eons

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Empty the Warrens
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Echo of Eons
    1 Reverent Silence
    1 Shattering Spree
    1 Cave-In
    1 Consign // Oblivion
    1 Echoing Truth
    2 Hope of Ghirapur
    2 Surgical Extraction


    Some advantages over what I saw in those matches:

    1) Basics are really good vs Wasteland decks. This is RUg storm so Mountain and Island are good. Green isn't even always necessary.

    2) Grid + Veil + Hope makes Echo very 1-sided. Naked Echo seemed bad, mulliganning them into FoW/REB/Surgical/Mindbreak/FoV.

    3) Rite offers speed to push through Grid/Song a turn sooner, enable Burning Wish earlier, and make postboard Empty a bigger threat. Bryant Cook has been pushing Rite for years. It has similar perks here.

    4) I blank creature removal G1. That makes Empty and Hope postboard even better.

    5) Despite no backup engines (Riddlesmith or Rector), I don't feel short on engines. Brainstorm and Gamble dig very efficiently, and there are redundant threats (Song, Echo, Empty, Wish) that all have different vulnerabilities. I can go for different lines G1 vs G2 vs G3 and keep the opponent guessing what to play around.

    6) 16 maindeck red cards makes Cave-In a convenient answer to hatebears. Because of the cheap cost, it can be cast through Thalia+Ouphe when Pyroclasm might be a struggle. Teeg is still rough, but can be answered by Grapeshot.

    7) Gamble makes LED+Echo much more consistent. Gamble is lower-variance than it looks when you mainly use it on T1 to find LED or Echo, or to find Song/Wish after an Echo. With correct sequencing I only need to keep 0-1 out of 5-6 cards in hand after Gamble resolves (~80% chance to succeed). I tested a 2/2 split with Ponder, but Ponder seems more likely to not find something good enough 4 cards deep than Gamble is to discard the card I need to keep, and momentum is more important than card advantage when the deck has so many busted card draw engines.

    8) With 20 "free" spells and card selection, Song basically always goes off. Resolving Song = win.

    9) The threat of speed is powerful. Winning game 1 on turn 1 may force opponents to play very defensively or mulligan too aggressively, buying time.

    10) Aside from Song (and possibly Gamble), the deck is just full of generically good low-cc Storm cards. Few fringe inclusions or high cc plays. That means a lot of openers and D7s are playable, and natural storm lines via Empty and Tendrils are a thing.



    Some downsides:

    - Little proactive disruption for the opponent's plan (no discard, no Narset). The protection slots are designed to basically Orim's Chant them to protect the combo turn and make Echo 1-sided, but there's no interaction with what the opponent's doing if they go off first. That makes explosive speed more important, hence the Rites and 16 mana rocks.

    - This is a worse Echo deck than decks with Looting, Riddlesmith, or Therapy (to put Echo in the GY without LED). But I don't always want to Echo anyway. There are many lines to victory, including ones that don't rely on the graveyard or draw the opponent cards or risk mulliganning you into duds. Gamble for LED does help improve Echo lines when I need them.

    - Veil is awkward at protecting Song (1RUGG). It could work in a different mana configuration, but it doesn't well in this one. Here Veil is better for protecting Echo, protecting Grid, fighting discard, or baiting counters.

    - I have to worry about more counters, while Rector can dodge a lot.

    - Both Chalice @ 0 and Chalice @ 1 hurt. Wish for Spree is important, and I have 2 bounce spells to bring in.
    Last edited by FTW; 07-25-2020 at 11:50 AM.

  9. #109

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Seems pretty good.

    A) Why cave in instead of pyrokenisis?

    B) If veil can't realistically protect the primary engine, are we sure it is better than 4th grid and some ponders?

  10. #110
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    I saw you on the stream. You really Stomped him with Curse Stompy. Didn't even need curses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    A) Why cave in instead of pyrokinesis?
    Burning Wish can only get sorceries.


    B) If veil can't realistically protect the primary engine, are we sure it is better than 4th grid and some ponders?
    Good question. Veil is the most recent addition and might be the most questionable slot.

    I tried:
    • Manamorphose (very good for filtering into RUG, imprinting on Chrome Mox, or as a "free" spell that filters mana on the combo turn)
    • Faithless Looting (to set up Echo lines)
    • Ponder (Ponders)
    • Daze (free protection)

    I found Looting too slow. Manamorphose and Ponder goldfish well, but vs disruption 3-4 protection main didn't seem quite enough. Daze protects Song but costs tempo otherwise, and counters are bad with Echo. Veil is generally a busted card so I decided to stick with Veil for now unless it proves bad.

    Often I cast Echo before Song, then cast Song with the mana from the fresh 7 and win. Veil protects that line.

    Another common line is to just Echo into a big Empty, or even enough storm to Tendrils. Veil protects that line.

    Veil also protects Empty/Wish lines without any engine and fights discard and other things.

    I don't cast Song in all games. It's just one of a couple win buttons. Veil does protect Song in grindy matches, especially as a 2nd or 3rd wind.
    Last edited by FTW; 07-25-2020 at 12:17 PM.

  11. #111

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    A). Doh!

    B). Your reasoning seems sound. Having a real natural storm kill seems helpfull so you aren't dead in the water to pyroblast.

    Yah my deck destroys most combo (because its the best deck in the format at t1 3ball) & fair non-blue strategies (because few of those strategies have an answer to t1/t2 curse or helm kill). It's MU vs fair blue (especially RUG delver OTD) is rough and where the deck can look bad.

  12. #112

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Veil protects the deck from disruption that Defense Grid doesn't, discard and Chalice, it only has one downside, Pyroblast. You don't have to cast Veil on the same turn you plan to go off, as long as the deck can threaten Black Lotus into Timetwister they have to counter it.

  13. #113
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Veil protects the deck from disruption that Defense Grid doesn't, discard and Chalice, it only has one downside, Pyroblast. You don't have to cast Veil on the same turn you plan to go off, as long as the deck can threaten Black Lotus into Timetwister they have to counter it.
    Good point, taking advantage of the information imbalance is big. I've just run out Veil to bait Force. Even with only 1 land open, they can't Daze it and they don't know if you have LED+Echo into gas and just win that turn. They may never get to cast another spell. Grid and Hope can do the same thing. They demand answers, even if you don't have it yet, because they can't let you just draw 7-40 cards. The threat of explosiveness is real.

    Pyroblast is a problem. Grid and Hope help patch that hole, and I also bring in Empty in those matches. Empty does a really good job of winning through most cards fair blue decks have to attack the other engines (counters, Pyroblast, Surgical, disenchants). Those little Goblins really embarass Oko. 2 turns to block an extra token? -5 to trade a Food for one???

  14. #114

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Warrens and Veil are a good combination, but I begrudgingly think Defense Grid is the best pre to post board strategy because it protects you from losing to Pyroblast and Stifle/Fluster Storm outright. Hope of Ghirapor is trash IMO, the card you need it to be good against is Pyroblast but it just turns on Lighting Bolt in the same match up. You're probably better off with the 4th Veil and Defense Grid in the SB, and I think you're missing out on Dimishing Returns in the SB for a wishable threat that gets around graveyard hate and Stifle. Not playing Pulverize is just bad, it's an absolutely broken SB card when you can win the same turn you wish for it off of Lotus -> Twister.

  15. #115
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I begrudgingly think Defense Grid is the best pre to post board strategy because it protects you from losing to Pyroblast and Stifle/Fluster Storm outright.
    I agree. Grid has been consistently strong, especially with extra acceleration to play it T1 OTP. Even in grindy slower matches where they can hold open FoW+3, you can count exactly how many responses to play around, and they give up insane tempo to hold up that response.

    Hope of Ghirapor is trash IMO, the card you need it to be good against is Pyroblast but it just turns on Lighting Bolt in the same match up.
    How often would they leave in much removal? It's only for postboard.

    I see it as a way to spend mana on turn 1 that forces them into defense mode without committing you to combo off at any time. Splitting up mana costs over turns can be useful. But it is bad against Bolt and Delver. I'll test 4th Grid & Veil instead.

    I think you're missing out on Dimishing Returns in the SB for a wishable threat that gets around graveyard hate and Stifle.
    Good point, I didn't think about the hate-dodging. Not needing LED is big too. I'll give it a try.

    4 mana may be an issue. I usually Wish for Echo when I'm stuck at exactly Wish + 3 mana (off a D7 or in topdeck mode). With 4 mana I just get Empty or Tendrils. Echo is Hail Mary to salvage hands that are 1 mana short, preventing fizzles. I would lose that. Day's Undoing??

    Not playing Pulverize is just bad, it's an absolutely broken SB card when you can win the same turn you wish for it off of Lotus -> Twister.
    I had Pulverize before. It's very strong, especially with my high Mountain count. But I often want it vs decks that run Trinisphere. It's very awkward vs 3ball. It also can't kill Null Rod through a Teeg, but that may be too fringe to matter. I'll have to see what hate it's fighting most of the time to decide.

    Shattering Spree is better at playing through 3sphere, playing through Teeg, playing around counters, protecting your own Grid,and setting up to go off next turn (more lands and mana rocks left). Pulverize can leave you very low in resources for any line other than LED+Echo.

  16. #116

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I agree. Grid has been consistently strong, especially with extra acceleration to play it T1 OTP. Even in grindy slower matches where they can hold open FoW+3, you can count exactly how many responses to play around, and they give up insane tempo to hold up that response.



    How often would they leave in much removal? It's only for postboard.

    I see it as a way to spend mana on turn 1 that forces them into defense mode without committing you to combo off at any time. Splitting up mana costs over turns can be useful. But it is bad against Bolt and Delver. I'll test 4th Grid & Veil instead.



    Good point, I didn't think about the hate-dodging. Not needing LED is big too. I'll give it a try.

    4 mana may be an issue. I usually Wish for Echo when I'm stuck at exactly Wish + 3 mana (off a D7 or in topdeck mode). With 4 mana I just get Empty or Tendrils. Echo is Hail Mary to salvage hands that are 1 mana short, preventing fizzles. I would lose that. Day's Undoing??



    I had Pulverize before. It's very strong, especially with my high Mountain count. But I often want it vs decks that run Trinisphere. It's very awkward vs 3ball. It also can't kill Null Rod through a Teeg, but that may be too fringe to matter. I'll have to see what hate it's fighting most of the time to decide.

    Shattering Spree is better at playing through 3sphere, playing through Teeg, playing around counters, protecting your own Grid,and setting up to go off next turn (more lands and mana rocks left). Pulverize can leave you very low in resources for any line other than LED+Echo.
    Burning Wish can be used with Lion's Eye Diamond for Diminishing Returns or you can Burning Wish for Diminishing Returns and pass, it's more than reasonable to break up the mana cost over multiple turns in a deck that is designed to cast 4 mana threats anyway.

    I don't think Defense Matrix and Pulverize's lack of synergy matters, few decks run counter spells and artifact based hate fwiw and you have Consign for those that do.

    Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning still go face, and if you're SBing in 4 Empty the Warrens then you should expect them to SB in board clears as well.

    Personally I think Echo of Eons, Burning Wish, Gamble and Lion's Eye Diamond are the best part of the deck, Song of Creation is really just there to smash through counter walls and give the deck a non comital way to win without the graveyard. I kind of question the SB in 3 Empty the Warrens plan for that reason, it's better to have the 1 Empty the Warrens in the SB as a threat than it is to take up MD space with a plan C. I also kind of wonder if Song of Creation should just be cut for 3 Empty the Warrens altogether, and the deck could just be D7s into Goblins.

  17. #117
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I don't think Defense Matrix and Pulverize's lack of synergy matters, few decks run counter spells and artifact based hate fwiw and you have Consign for those that do.
    Trinisphere was a bigger issue with Pulverize than breaking my own Grid. Do you pay 3 and sac 2 lands and all mana rocks (having fewer resources), or just pay 3? It's fine if you can win that turn, but if you draw into a "pass the turn" hand you're far behind. Blue decks may pack a Null Road, which you can beat with multiple copies of Spree better than Pulverize. Grid isn't the main reason, it's just an additional point.

    Personally I think Echo of Eons, Burning Wish, Gamble and Lion's Eye Diamond are the best part of the deck, Song of Creation is really just there to smash through counter walls and give the deck a non comital way to win without the graveyard. I kind of question the SB in 3 Empty the Warrens plan for that reason, it's better to have the 1 Empty the Warrens in the SB as a threat than it is to take up MD space with a plan C. I also kind of wonder if Song of Creation should just be cut for 3 Empty the Warrens altogether, and the deck could just be D7s into Goblins.
    My postboard goal is to take up MD space, to overwhelm them with redundancy so they can't stop everything. Because of Chrome Mox and Gamble, you may end up losing business spells anyway, so too much business hasn't really been an issue in those matches.

    Song has another big perk over Empty: you either win that turn or the next turn. Empty takes at least 2 more turns. Song is a very clean way to convert a D7 into "win this turn" for 4 mana (Wish lines cost more). Racing matters in many matches. Relying too much on Goblins also loses to board wipes. Song is very strong, but relying too much on Song also opens you up to hate cards like Pyroblast. Threat diversity has value.

    Another big perk is if I see T0 Leyline, I don't even have to break it, I can just play around it by not using an Echo line. I can even board out some copies of Echo G3 and still have enough gas. I see Echo as getting worse postboard (Surgical, Leyline, Cage), which lines up well with leaning into Empty. Again, threat diversity.

  18. #118

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Trinisphere was a bigger issue with Pulverize than breaking my own Grid. Do you pay 3 and sac 2 lands and all mana rocks (having fewer resources), or just pay 3? It's fine if you can win that turn, but if you draw into a "pass the turn" hand you're far behind. Blue decks may pack a Null Road, which you can beat with multiple copies of Spree better than Pulverize. Grid isn't the main reason, it's just an additional point.



    My postboard goal is to take up MD space, to overwhelm them with redundancy so they can't stop everything. Because of Chrome Mox and Gamble, you may end up losing business spells anyway, so too much business hasn't really been an issue in those matches.

    Song has another big perk over Empty: you either win that turn or the next turn. Empty takes at least 2 more turns. Song is a very clean way to convert a D7 into "win this turn" for 4 mana (Wish lines cost more). Racing matters in many matches. Relying too much on Goblins also loses to board wipes. Song is very strong, but relying too much on Song also opens you up to hate cards like Pyroblast. Threat diversity has value.

    Another big perk is if I see T0 Leyline, I don't even have to break it, I can just play around it by not using an Echo line. I can even board out some copies of Echo G3 and still have enough gas. I see Echo as getting worse postboard (Surgical, Leyline, Cage), which lines up well with leaning into Empty. Again, threat diversity.
    The only problem I see with Echo of Eons is inherent in the design of the deck, without a way to hard cast it you are only using half of the card. Without Carpet of Flowers in your SB, you're losing three threats in your MD. Why SB in 3 Empty the Warrens for more threats, when you can SB in Carpet of Flowers for more mana and threats? They can't Stifle or RFG what you don't have to Storm and Flashback.

    That is why I am iffy on Empty the Warrens as a SB plan, that plan actually works better game one than it does game 2 because of Fluster Storm and mass removal. Mana ramp to me is the key, because being able to cast 6+ mana spells doesn't care about your counters and hate.

    I don't think it is just about threat diversity, but getting the most out of the threats you already have. And as far as threat diversity goes, I still think your SB is too linear. Carpet of Flowers would give you Peer into the Abyss, and that card is no joke.

  19. #119
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I don't think it is just about threat diversity, but getting the most out of the threats you already have. And as far as threat diversity goes, I still think your SB is too linear.
    It's funny, I see it the other way. Going all-in on D7s seems too linear to me. D7s draw the opponent into a lot of annoying cards that Veils don't stop. Some matchups I think it's optimal not to D7 at all if possible. Diversifying between Song & D7s & natural storm means they have to fight through different angles and make trickier decisions about card selection and mulligans. Diversifying hate (Grid + Veil) has a similar effect.

    It might come down to play style. When I play fringe decks, I'm playing poker. Part of brewer's advantage is the opponent not really knowing what you're up to. That advantage is compounded if I can switch gears between multiple engines. The ability to switch lines means the opponent doesn't really know what to board or how to fight it. Ok, so you lost to Song G1 and brought in Pyroblasts and have R open? But can you handle 12 goblins? No? GG. If the deck was just D7s into Empty, it would be more predictable to fight.

    That doesn't work when you're a tier deck, but we're not there yet, so why not milk the brewer advantage? JosefK must get a lot of that in his brews.

    Carpet of Flowers would give you Peer into the Abyss, and that card is no joke.
    Carpet does seem good. But Carpet mana can also ramp into Song. I might use it for that. Song draws even more cards than either Peer or Ad Nauseam, for less mana, without costing any life. Peer seems win-more (or win-less). The big advantage Peer has is it's easier to accelerate into with Monoliths and Rituals, but without those in the deck there's really no point.

  20. #120

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    It's funny, I see it the other way. Going all-in on D7s seems too linear to me. D7s draw the opponent into a lot of annoying cards that Veils don't stop. Some matchups I think it's optimal not to D7 at all if possible. Diversifying between Song & D7s & natural storm means they have to fight through different angles and make trickier decisions about card selection and mulligans. Diversifying hate (Grid + Veil) has a similar effect.

    It might come down to play style. When I play fringe decks, I'm playing poker. Part of brewer's advantage is the opponent not really knowing what you're up to. That advantage is compounded if I can switch gears between multiple engines. The ability to switch lines means the opponent doesn't really know what to board or how to fight it. Ok, so you lost to Song G1 and brought in Pyroblasts and have R open? But can you handle 12 goblins? No? GG. If the deck was just D7s into Empty, it would be more predictable to fight.

    That doesn't work when you're a tier deck, but we're not there yet, so why not milk the brewer advantage? JosefK must get a lot of that in his brews.



    Carpet does seem good. But Carpet mana can also ramp into Song. I might use it for that. Song draws even more cards than either Peer or Ad Nauseam, for less mana, without costing any life. Peer seems win-more (or win-less). The big advantage Peer has is it's easier to accelerate into with Monoliths and Rituals, but without those in the deck there's really no point.
    The engines shouldn't be compared to each other in terms of power, but how they fair vs your opponent's hate. As long as Peer into the Abyss is immune to Pyroblast, Stifle and graveyard hate, as long as Song of Creation is immune to Stifle and graveyard hate and as long as Empty the Warrens is immune to Pyroblast and graveyard hate then you have diversity of threats to play around hate.

    Carpet of Flowers being good with Song of Creation is exactly my point about making more out of the threats that you already have, they accelerate Song of Creation, hard cast Echo of Eons and let Burning Wish get Peer into the Abyss. There is no reason to add 3 more threats with Empty the Warrens when there are already 3 threats in your deck that you aren't fully using, and Carpet just does other good stuff for every thing else.

    The all in on D7 and Empty plan is really linear, but it's faster, more consistent and grinds through counter spells. You only have to be so diverse, which is why I think you either ditch Song of Creation and go all in on D7s and Empty or you keep Song of Creation and only wish for Empty.

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