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Thread: Song of Creation Storm

  1. #121

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Have you played it in any more leagues or challenges since?
    I did play some games the other day, experimented with Pentad prism instead of dark rituals, it did not work out. In theory you could drop a prism of a mox diamond/chrome mox + land t1, then have access to 5 mana turn 2 without any color problems. But in practice i often wanted to cast discard t1, and then a ritual would have been better t2 unless i had exactly song in hand.

  2. #122
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Looking at some of Bryant Cook's recent content, I see why multiple Carpet is so good in this meta and why the multiple Empty plan may be weaker than it used to be.

    In my games the main advantage of maindeck Empty was having a 4-mana line turn 1 OTP that goes off through FoW and before Chalice/Daze/Pierce/REB/Fluster/Stifle are online. You can just play under their hate, instead of having to beat or play around hate.

    Wish -> Empty is a 6-mana line, which is much harder to execute turn 1 consistently. Empty is much better earlier than later, and having it main vs SB reduces the mana requirement. The whole point was to use it early before hate is active, like Belcher does, to nullify cards in their hand. Also a lot of those decks with multiple anti-Storm cards have a hard time dealing with 10-14 Goblins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    The engines shouldn't be compared to each other in terms of power, but how they fair vs your opponent's hate. As long as Peer into the Abyss is immune to Pyroblast, Stifle and graveyard hate, as long as Song of Creation is immune to Stifle and graveyard hate and as long as Empty the Warrens is immune to Pyroblast and graveyard hate then you have diversity of threats to play around hate.
    Peer is also weak to Flusterstorm, like Empty, while Song dodges it. Peer is much harder to resolve through Mindbreak Trap (Burning Wish -> Peer is 2, and if you cast any mana sources or Veil that's 3). Song is much better at winning through Trap. You can cast Song as the 1st spell. Once resolved you draw even if they counter any individual spell, and you can drop multiple Defense Grids before resolving Tendrils. If they do Stifle/Trap your Tendrils, it's very easy to refuel with an Echo and go off again the same turn because Song keeps drawing more cards. And if you still fail somehow, Song stays in play for next turn and makes you EOT discard Echo of Eons... These are relevant differences for playing through hate. Pyroblast is the biggest problem, but Grid helps.

    I think Peer is a lot better in Dark Ritual decks like TES. A 9-mana line is very expensive for this deck, when my alternative engines are 3-6 mana. Mana requirements affect speed, which affect how much hate the opponent can assemble before your combo turn and how much you have to fight through. Lower-mana lines can go off right after a D7 without passing the turn, which keeps you under the same Veil protection instead of needing a new Veil.

    The all in on D7 and Empty plan is really linear, but it's faster, more consistent and grinds through counter spells. You only have to be so diverse, which is why I think you either ditch Song of Creation and go all in on D7s and Empty or you keep Song of Creation and only wish for Empty.
    I see some perks to it. But going too linear on D7-> Empty makes me weak to stuff like Plague Engineer and Terminus, which the opponent will know to prioritize if that's what I do every game.

    Song is also faster than Empty. Both cost 4. 1RUG is only slightly harder than 3R in my manabase (double Rite is the main case where I would have too much red). I'd argue MD Empty is about 0.5 turns faster than Song, but SB Empty is slower than Song. And that's just to resolve. Song wins in 0-1 turn, while Empty wins in 2-3 turns. Empty coming down faster is good for playing under hate, but Empty winning slower is worse for racing other combo.

    I see perks to both in different matchups, which is why I diversified to run both.

  3. #123

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    I don't see a reason to compare Song and Peer at all, the latter is a post board win condition with Carpet of Flowers and Burning Wish.

    I'd get testing with Carpet, it will make you reconsider a lot of things about the deck that you'd dismiss otherwise. If the D7/Goblins plan is too linear for your MD, I don't see how that can be any less true for wish?

  4. #124
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I don't see a reason to compare Song and Peer at all, the latter is a post board win condition with Carpet of Flowers and Burning Wish.

    I'd get testing with Carpet, it will make you reconsider a lot of things about the deck that you'd dismiss otherwise. If the D7/Goblins plan is too linear for your MD, I don't see how that can be any less true for wish?
    Already running 3 Carpets for a week. It has been amazing vs Delver.

    Still, Carpet accelerates into the engines I already have like Song or hardcast Echo. There's no need for a 9 mana line. If Carpet produces extra mana, I can just float mana through a draw spell to help beat conditional counters (Daze, Pierce) and easily cast spells from the new cards.

    Watching TES streams, their Peer lines are often weak to Daze/Pierce because they just barely have enough mana. They can also be disrupted by little things like mana denial, burn turning off fetchlands, tax effects, Chalice @ 1 turning off Dark Ritual, etc.. That's because they just barely have exactsies for this line. Black storm decks still need Peer because they have no other line that draws that many cards not dependent on the GY or life total. Song already does that for me. Instead I could use that SB slot for a card to beat hate, like a 4th Grid (REB, Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Veil, disenchants).

  5. #125

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Already running 3 Carpets for a week. It has been amazing vs Delver.

    Still, Carpet accelerates into the engines I already have like Song or hardcast Echo. There's no need for a 9 mana line. If Carpet produces extra mana, I can just float mana through a draw spell to help beat conditional counters (Daze, Pierce) and easily cast spells from the new cards.

    Watching TES streams, their Peer lines are often weak to Daze/Pierce because they just barely have enough mana. They can also be disrupted by little things like mana denial, burn turning off fetchlands, tax effects, Chalice @ 1 turning off Dark Ritual, etc.. That's because they just barely have exactsies for this line. Black storm decks still need Peer because they have no other line that draws that many cards not dependent on the GY or life total. Song already does that for me. Instead I could use that SB slot for a card to beat hate, like a 4th Grid (REB, Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Veil, disenchants).

    Unless your opponents are trash, they should be using Spell Pierce and Daze on Carpet of Flowers, Veil of Summer and Defense Grid. Peer is for getting around Stifle, Red Elemental Blast and graveyard hate when you're sitting on Burning Wish - granted you can sort of do that via hard casting Echo of Eons, but it's slow as hell.

    The deck needs a plan C for Burning Wish, because Empy the Warrens is not an option as the game drags. IDK, maybe Replenish?

    Edit: Replenish is actually pretty good, if you have Song in your hand it turns LED into Lotus without risking Stifle and so playing it out can pick up value with Carpet.

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