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Thread: Song of Creation Storm

  1. #21
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    I think we should start brewing towards the new draw spell that was leaked. Someone less lazy than I am will link properly if need be but it basically reads:

    B
    Instant
    As an additional cost sacrifice a creature.
    Draw 2 cards.
    From M21 is memory serves.

    I think it fits perfectly in grindy combo builds of all sorts, especially when you can incorporate things like Veteran Explorer, striges and other ETB effects / mana effects as well as enable Cabal Therapy as disruption.

  2. #22
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemon View Post
    I'm excited to see this getting some attention now that companions aren't breaking everything. I live the idea of a grindier build. What are y'alls thoughts on Faithless Looting as something that can be flashed back once we start going off? Maybe over some number of Burning Wish\Preordain\Brainstorm?
    I think you both should test the shell a bit and see the raw power of the Song draw engine.

    Faithless Looting is unnecessary. More draw 2s are unnecessary. (Magmatic Insight is in color and probably better than the black card).

    You don't really need any more help drawing cards once you start going off. I cast maybe 1-2 cantrips and leave a bunch of unused Ponders in hand. The 0-mana artifacts are enough. You just chain them and draw your deck. Sometimes, due to variance, you will draw a bunch of spells in a row and run out of mana rocks. Cantrips bridge that gap and find the next rocks. In those cases, mana is the limiting factor, so I would much rather pay 1 mana to dig 5 cards (Brainstorm, Preordain, Ponder) than 3 mana to dig 4 cards (Looting flashback).

    With that in mind, the main role of the cantrips is to fix your hand (find Song, find mana, beat disruption). You don't need many to go off. The blue cantrips do that better than the other 1-mana draw spells. Maybe the deck needs a real tutor.

    Overall the weakest point is getting Song into play and beating disruption. "Going off" is pretty easy after that. The combo chain plays itself.

    PS - Brainstorm being instant is very useful. You can cast a 0-mana spell, stack the draw 2, cast brainstorm in response (stacking another draw 2), then crack LEDs for mana in response. You'll end up drawing 5 cards with all that mana floating. If you crack a fetch after Brainstorming, you draw 7 and get rid of 2 duds.

    Mana-neutral or mana-positive effects like Manamorphose (draw 3 for net 0 mana) and Rite of Flame (draw 2, +1 mana) and even Mishra's Bauble are probably worth considering over more draw spells. Manamorphose also enables even crazier stack tricks with Brainstorm and LED. Otherwise, the deck just needs ways to find and protect Song, or a plan B.

  3. #23
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    I tested the "turbo" version of this (Rite, Echo) against RUG Delver and kept getting wrecked by counters. LED-Echo was especially risky, leaving me more vulnerable to blowouts. Stifle+Wasteland hurt even more with the lower land count and more duals.

    Then I tested this Xerox version against RUG Delver and won 11/20 (55%) preboard:

    //Lands: 16
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Prismatic Vista
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga

    //Artifacts: 17
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Mox Opal
    2 Chrome Mox
    3 Defense Grid

    //Enchantment: 4
    4 Song of Creation

    //Spells: 23
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    3 Veil of Summer
    4 Burning Wish

    //Wishboard: 8
    1 Echo of Eons
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Pulverize
    1 Reverent Silence
    1 By Force
    1 Pyroclasm


    I think is a pretty good rate for combo vs blue. It's not broken like some other combo decks I tested (Breach, Zirda), but it has legs to go off consistently and fight disruption. The worst losses were from multiple Stifle/Wasteland effects attacking the mana, then getting buried by Daze and Spell Pierce.

    I will probably change:
    -1 Burning Wish (move to SB)
    +1 fetch

    I want 4 Wish postboard vs Prison decks, but multiple Wish are bad draws against blue decks.

    Some useful tricks:
    - Under a Veil or Grid, you can Force your own spell just to draw 2 cards for 0 mana.
    - Early Wish for Echo bluffs that you're going for an Echo line, even when you just got it to have a blue card for FoW.
    - Wish for Echo protects against risk of decking out before reaching lethal storm (especially for Grapeshot lines vs enemy Veil).
    - Engineered Explosives functions as a 0cc artifact when going off, but also kills things pre-combo. Might put 1 back in the SB.

  4. #24

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Thanks for testing! I just got my Songs in the Mail today. I agree that testing against delver should be #1 priority and somewhere about 50% sounds reasonable to aim for. I will see where testing takes me and report back!

  5. #25

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Carpet of Flowers seems like a useful sideboard card against blue tempo decks. The trick where you play it in the precombat main phase and then generate mana in the postcombat main phase can allow it to act like a green ritual effect. Either you cast it precombat and go off postcombat, or you go off precombat and cast this if you were going to run out of mana, then continue postcombat. This deck seems like a good home for a one-mana hasty Llanowar-Elf-Dark-Ritual.
    Edit: And 11-9 preboard vs Delver seems pretty respectable!

  6. #26
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    I really like this xerox list. I agree that Carpet of Flowers and Engineered Explosives sound really good. Chain of Vapor also seems pretty good as a sideboard option for permanent removal that can also double as a U: draw 10 by bouncing your 0cc stuff. How often did you find yourself reaching for Tendrils or Empty the Warrens? It seems to me like once you have the enchantment storm count doesn't really matter anymore.

  7. #27
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Carpet of Flowers looks great! It fights their attack on the manabase, which is Delver's best line at beating this. I'll run at least 2 copies. I prefer it even over more copies of Veil or Flusterstorm, because those involve holding extra mana open (in tempo games it's far more likely to never reach 5 mana than to need more 1cc answers in hand). Veil is somewhat weak in those matches (needs 1RUGG). FoW and Grid pull more weight. I use Veil primarily to resolve Grid or get a 2-for-1 protecting cantrips to pull ahead in cards.

    Running 1-of EE SB so far. I like it. When I tested 2 maindeck EEs in the Jegantha build it was never bad. Most decks, even Storm, play 0-3cc nonland permanents. At worst it's a 1-for-1 that buys time.

    Chain of Vapor looks good. I'll have to weigh the combo synergy vs the inabilty to stop Chalice @ 1. If it's win-more, then Echoing Truth might be better.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemon View Post
    How often did you find yourself reaching for Tendrils or Empty the Warrens? It seems to me like once you have the enchantment storm count doesn't really matter anymore.
    I get Tendrils most games. In practice, I could ignore the threat of Veil due to Grid or FoWs.

    Why not Grapeshot? Storm 20 is tricky, not for running out of gas, but running out of library! Draw 2 is not optional! To avoid losing, you need spare cards in the library (Burning Wish + kill triggers draw 4, and any FoW protection triggers another draw 2). It's often not possible to reach storm 20 before running out of library. It might involve Wish for Echo (both exiled), reshuffling, giving the opponent a fresh grip, and then chaining more spells into the next Wish. It's doable but a lot more work. Tendrils is a smoother kill if you think it will resolve.

    EtW is a backup line if I can't resolve Song (e.g. Burning Wish + LED into Empty for 8-12 goblins). That's enough to win some games. I haven't used it much, but in many matchups it's a better Hail Mary than Echo giving them a fresh grip of FoW + Spell Pierce + Oko. I did that once and lost, realizing a simple Empty would have probably won that game.

    Has anyone else managed to play the deck yet?

  8. #28
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    I tried an Intuition package with Noxious Revival. First I tried cutting Preordains but my draws got too inconsistent. Then i tried it over the Chrome Moxes. It ran better but still felt clunky and short on mana.

    Tested against UR Delver preboard, winning 5/10.

    G1 Hard Tendrils
    (Petalx3, Veil countered by FoW, LEDx2, Wish -> Tendrils for 18 playing through Daze)

    G2 Loss (couldn't hit 4 mana for Song)

    G3 Song with Grid & FoW

    G4 Song with Grid & Veil

    G5 Mull to 5. Lost to double FoW

    G6 Song with Grid

    G7 Empty for 16 Goblins got there
    (Brainstorm, Preordain, Opal, Petal, LED, Wish + Brainstorm, Empty)
    Opponent was at 17, so if Brainstorm found a 0cc, Tendrils would have won that turn!

    G8 Loss. Wish with 3 mana @ 3 life. Went for Echo and drew duds. Not sure if there was a better possible play.

    G9 Loss (1 mana short of both Song or Empty lines)

    G10 Loss. Intuition for Song, then resolved Song at 7 life, 1 mana or 0cc spell short to go off.


    Intuition never helped win a game, and I was often short by exactly 1 mana rock, so cutting Chrome Mox seems bad.

  9. #29
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    I'm still tooling around with this deck, although I don't feel its power level is compelling enough that I would play it in a big tournament (if those were even happening). I've found Mox Diamond to be the most interesting card in the deck, since Song of Creation allows you to draw the cards from the trigger before Mox Diamond resolves, enabling you to draw into land and then discard if you want to keep the Mox (which you almost always want to do). Having a slightly higher land count also enables the extra land drop that Song gives you. Sometimes it's correct to set up a cantrip on top, cast Song, pass the turn and discard your hand, and then go off with all your mana available the next turn.

  10. #30
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Chrome Mox allows the same trick. You don't imprint until after you draw 2, and you can choose to imprint nothing after seeing what cards you draw.

    There are a lot subtle tricks to playing out the combo. One is that you can play Song and pass to go off next turn. But in my experience 90% of the time I can go off the turn I cast Song, without needing much (or any) mana up once it's in play. When I do go for a "pass the turn" line, it's due to lacking gas in hand more than needing to hold open more lands.

    If you're finding yourself fizzling short on mana, there are some tricks to exploit:

    - At 14-16 0cc spells (not including FoW) the engine hits a critical momentum. I'd avoid going any lower.

    - If you already resolved a Veil, your spells are uncounterable so you can FoW your own spell to draw 2 for 0 mana and your spell still resolves.

    - Brainstorm lets you dig 5 cards deep for U before you have to put any cards back

    - LED is a powerhouse. With a spell and draw 2 on the stack, you can play other instants (e.g. Brainstorm, Veil of Summer, Force of Will) in response, stack their draw 2s, then crack LED for UUU. That gives a lot of mana to cast cantrips with a new grip of 5+ cards, usually enough momentum to keep going from there. In my builds blue is the best to float off a blind LED crack, but that may very based on deck build and game state.

    - You can also stack instants over draw 2s to dig the most cards deep before putting back 2 cards with Brainstorm and cracking a fetch.

    - Preordain lets you scry away the last cards you see, which is sometimes better than Brainstorming 2 duds on top only to draw them again off your next spell.

    - Burning Wish + LED for Echo lets you reshuffle and draw 7 to refresh and keep going. It's a pretty safe play under Grid protection, and if you draw 2 good cards off Wish you may not even need to Echo yet.

    - Song of Creation is not legendary. I've had more than one win under double Song.

    - Each Song enables an extra land drop. That extra land is an important mana source, especially fetches for Brainstorm.

    - extra Songs in hand are great to pitch to FoW or imprint on Chrome Mox

    - Noxious Revival costs 0 and can set up a 0cc spell on top (e.g. Petal, Opal).

    - You can use LED mana to help cast Song if you set up Song on top of your library with a cantrip (also a good way to play around discard).

    - When you FoW your own spell, you can draw the cards first. Once I had nothing but FoW+FoW left when casting Opal. Instead of pitching Force to Force, I drew 2 off Opal first and saw another blue card. Then I pitched one to Force Opal, drawing 2 first, then pitched another blue card to Force the Force. Take advantage of the extra draws first when you need them.


    There's probably other stuff too. I got a lot of mileage out of sequencing. Overall I'm usually casting Tendrils Storm 15-20 the turn I hit 4-5 mana to resolve Song.

    My bigger obstacle so far has been sticking Song vs 4 FoW 4 Daze 4 Wasteland, but once I have Song it's pretty smooth sailing.

  11. #31
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    have you considered trying out some non-zero numbers of show and tell? it's a lot easier to cast when playing around wasteland and if they have counters it can eat one up at the worst.

    there's also some riddlesmith list that came up recently. that could function as a pretty strong alternate engine for the deck.
    -rob

  12. #32
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    there's also some riddlesmith list that came up recently. that could function as a pretty strong alternate engine for the deck.
    I like Riddlesmith. That would encourage a higher artifact count, maybe with MD EE.

  13. #33
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    i found the list on reddit this morning. i'm at work now, but can find it later. i think it had 1 of the guy that returns back to hand from graveyard when you play an artifact.
    -rob

  14. #34
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    i found the list on reddit this morning. i'm at work now, but can find it later. i think it had 1 of the guy that returns back to hand from graveyard when you play an artifact.
    Yeah, the combo is usually with Ovalchase Daredevil. That dilutes the main engine, but it does add another way to go off faster.

    Maybe something like this


    //Artifacts: 19
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Mox Opal
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Defense Grid
    1 Engineered Explosives

    //Creatures: 7
    4 Riddlesmith
    3 Ovalchase Daredevil

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Song of Creation

    //Spells: 14
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Burning Wish

    //Lands: 16
    10 fetches
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Volcanic Island


    That should work, but it has less protection. Then again, Veil is pretty slow at defending Song anyway.

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  16. #36
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Interesting. That looks explosive. Was that a 5-0?

    It looks like it would struggle more against disruption (less protection, more all-in lines with Echo, and more GY vulnerability) but steamrolls other decks with redundancy.

    The Entomb package with 1-of Ovalchase and Echo is cool.

  17. #37
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    I tested it out against Delver. It's better than I thought. Despite no protection, it has a lot of redundancy. Emry and Narset are powerful backup engines to dig into more gas.

    I might have 2-3 Riddlesmiths/Songs answered before resolving a wincon, but any engine is enough to go off.

  18. #38

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I tested it out against Delver. It's better than I thought. Despite no protection, it has a lot of redundancy. Emry and Narset are powerful backup engines to dig into more gas.

    I might have 2-3 Riddlesmiths/Songs answered before resolving a wincon, but any engine is enough to go off.
    Hi All! I built the deck posted above. I'm having a ton of success with it. Here's the latest list that I think is absolute gas.

    3 Echo of Eons
    4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    3 Narset, Parter of Veils
    4 Seat of the Synod
    4 Riddlesmith
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal
    2 Ovalchase Daredevil
    3 Chrome Mox
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler
    4 Song of Creation
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Urza's Bauble

    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Shattering Spree
    1 Pyroclasm
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Reverent Silence
    1 Void Snare
    1 Echo of Eons
    2 Abrade

    I've been meaning to write a primer for the deck, because there's lots of subtle and interesting play patterns with it. In the mean time, please let me know if you have any questions, suggestions, or anything at all. Enjoy.

  19. #39

    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Has anyone else managed to play the deck yet?
    Not your version, but Iíve dabbled with Song in my Orcish Lumberjack / Titania deck (because Iíd rather put broken cards in a bad deck than build a broken deck, I suppose). I had the same observation that once you go off, youíre limited on mana, never cards. I used Lotus Cobras with fetches as a way to get mana; one Cobra is 0cc if you follow it with a fetch, and if you have more than one Cobra or if one Cobra sees more than one land drop (thanks to Song), youíre in business.

    Finding and resolving a Song is the other main hurdle, probably a bigger one. In my deck you could instead play Titania as early as T2 and feel optimistic against many decks. Here you solve the problem more elegantly with cantrips. I think youíre one obscure card or new printing away from increasing the consistency of landing a Song, which would rocket the deck to greater competitiveness.

    Any place for Jeweled Amulet? It can lay the groundwork for a quick Song, and like all free spells itís never bad once you have Song.

  20. #40
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    Re: Song of Creation Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Not your version, but Iíve dabbled with Song in my Orcish Lumberjack / Titania deck (because Iíd rather put broken cards in a bad deck than build a broken deck, I suppose). I had the same observation that once you go off, youíre limited on mana, never cards. I used Lotus Cobras with fetches as a way to get mana; one Cobra is 0cc if you follow it with a fetch, and if you have more than one Cobra or if one Cobra sees more than one land drop (thanks to Song), youíre in business.
    That sounds fun! Especially in a deck without a bunch of 0cc artifacts, mana must be the bottleneck and ritual effects/Cobra must be great.

    Finding both Song and enough mana is tricky. 4 mana is not a small feat against a blue tempo deck. But it is one mana less than Ad Nauseam and can be cast at any life total, so those are significant advantages.

    I will try Riddlesmith as an alternate engine before Amulet. He might already be that last card needed for consistency. After testing the other build, I saw how powerful Riddlesmith was and how valuable it was to have a cheaper engine. I can probably squeeze it into my own build, cutting Preordains. Then I can add Emry and/or Mishra's Bauble, without needing the higher-risk stuff like Narset+Echo, Entomb, or all nonbasics.

    I'm going to test something like this


    //Artifacts: 20
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Mox Opal
    2 Chrome Mox
    3 Mishra's Bauble
    3 Defense Grid

    //Creatures: 7
    4 Riddlesmith
    3 Emry, Lurker of the Loch

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Song of Creation

    //Spells: 13
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    3 Burning Wish

    //Lands: 16
    3 Prismatic Vista
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Misty Rainforest
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Echo of Eons
    1 Reverent Silence
    1 Pulverize
    1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
    1 Burning Wish
    2 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Hope of Ghirapur
    1 Brazen Borrower
    1 Abrade


    I'm testing Bontu over Pyroclasm/Firespout/Toxic Deluge because I've already had a few cases where I had Wish + LED but had no outs to creatures on board because either:
    -not enough Storm for lethal Tendrils
    -Empty tokens wouldn't save me (evasion or burn)
    -just 3 mana, not enough for Empty/Tendrils
    -Firespout wouldn't kill everything off RRR or GGG (LED mana)
    -Pyroclasm wouldn't kill everything
    -Deluge life loss not manageable (too low, or burn risk)

    Bontu seems like a more reliable "don't die" button for 3 mana, and the tempo cost is mitigated by artifact mana.

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