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Thread: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

  1. #41

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Its been good reading all your previous posts, lots of great ideas!

    I found some content for Lutri. This guy starts off with UR, then moves to RUG, and then to 4c. I'm sure all of you will disagree with at least one of the builds this guy uses in each set of colors (he switches it up a lot). Its nice to see it all in action though. Again, he switches his lists up quite a bit. I hope to see him put up some more videos.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/masan96321/videos

    I plan on trying UR out at the FNMs this week (we do two a week, one on Monday and one on Friday), and then moving on to RUG. I think RUG is much better, but do want to just give UR a try to see how it performs. Being able to run blood moon and b2b seems decent in some matchups, along with PoP. Just focusing on counter and burn probably does give the deck a bit more consistency as well. I'll post here later if anyone is interested, along with a list.

    It would be great to here about anyone else sleeving it up and giving it a go.

  2. #42
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    The white splash is interesting. It allows some great cards:
    Swords to Plowshares
    Path to Exile
    Monastery Mentor
    Teferi, Time Raveler
    Sevinne's Reclamation

    I like the overall emphasis on planeswalkers too. Lultri is one of the few Commanders that doesn't really punish any of the walkers, which are all underplayed now because of Lurrus.

    The biggest vulnerability seems to be the manabase.

    There are some other cards I think don't belong, but it's also easy to see no impact of those cards in a small sample size of games with a singleton deck.

  3. #43
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    If it’s 4c you play Astrolabe, if it’s 3c Lutri it’s better to play Lurrus. Looking past the whole better things to be doing, Plow is fine, Path is medium. Mentor is not a card you want to play against Oko ultimate, and it isn’t nearly as good at winning by itself as Oko or Uro; on the plus side you can only play one Mentor (the correct amount) since casting a second Mentor doesn’t trigger prowess. Sevinne’s in fine, the deck almost wants a Regrowth effect anyways.

    Teferi needs his own paragraph to explain... There is no such deck that competes in legacy by spamming Astrolabe without Oko (i.e. Teferi + Astrolabe spam isn’t competitive). Lutri can’t use the passive other than locking opponent out of countering Ancestral/Footfalls when aggressively trying to copy with Lutri (getting into A then B then C combo jank territory). Using Teferi without Astrolabe or manlands is only viable in a dedicated combo deck as a 3 mana discard spell [targeting blue cards] that sometimes can remove a lock piece. This card is not good enough for legacy play without correct use (or parasitizing the fact that Oko is still somehow legal). Just ask your local Blade player how jamming “good” cards [incorrectly-used JVP and completely unsupported Teferi] that they like is working for them.

  4. #44
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Mentor is not a card you want to play against Oko ultimate, and it isn’t nearly as good at winning by itself as Oko or Uro; .... Teferi needs his own paragraph to explain... There is no such deck that competes in legacy by spamming Astrolabe without Oko (i.e. Teferi + Astrolabe spam isn’t competitive).
    You talk as though these things are mutually exclusive, but the 4c (RUGW) deck he linked has Oko and Uro too. Did you even look at the deck before commenting on it? It runs white in addition to green, not instead of. You can't run 2 Okos or 2 Uros, so Mentor and Teferi aren't competing with those cards. They're competing with the 35th-40th card slots.

    RUG does struggle to remove creatures that don't die to burn. This is a weakness that white helps with (StP, Path), at the expense of weaker mana.

  5. #45

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by nimkee View Post
    Its been good reading all your previous posts, lots of great ideas!

    I found some content for Lutri. This guy starts off with UR, then moves to RUG, and then to 4c. I'm sure all of you will disagree with at least one of the builds this guy uses in each set of colors (he switches it up a lot). Its nice to see it all in action though. Again, he switches his lists up quite a bit. I hope to see him put up some more videos.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/masan96321/videos

    I plan on trying UR out at the FNMs this week (we do two a week, one on Monday and one on Friday), and then moving on to RUG. I think RUG is much better, but do want to just give UR a try to see how it performs. Being able to run blood moon and b2b seems decent in some matchups, along with PoP. Just focusing on counter and burn probably does give the deck a bit more consistency as well. I'll post here later if anyone is interested, along with a list.

    It would be great to here about anyone else sleeving it up and giving it a go.
    I like in at least the one video he's got 3 force of will's in the SB. I'm feeling like it's correct to lose Lutri vs. turn 1 or 2 combo decks to pick up the forces.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  6. #46
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    You talk as though these things are mutually exclusive, but the 4c (RUGW) deck he linked has Oko and Uro too. Did you even look at the deck before commenting on it? It runs white in addition to green, not instead of. You can't run 2 Okos or 2 Uros, so Mentor and Teferi aren't competing with those cards. They're competing with the 35th-40th card slots.

    RUG does struggle to remove creatures that don't die to burn. This is a weakness that white helps with (StP, Path), at the expense of weaker mana.
    Yes I’m sure it did, but it absorbed variance into its manabase in a singleton deck. That’s just advertising ‘loses to Wasteland’ to the Lurrus decks, and without testing you come back to any companion deck that can cast Lurrus should probably just do that (plus or minus how much you want to build to exploit mana rocks ~Kraken/Fox).

    So now we’ve given opponents (on 4-of construction) an easy out to steal games for what exactly? Teferi and Mentor don’t take over games (certainly not to the degree of effortlessness that Oko and Uro do). The question becomes how much are you willing to compromise the mana base beyond a Karakas to stretch for these (with what are going to be Wasteland-susceptible islands that can’t always contribute to what the deck is doing). Both Mentor and Teferi are highly susceptible to losing to Oko in a vacuum (and probably Uro too), and we’re bending over backwards to reach for them why exactly?

    The white removal is great (Plow) to medium (Path), assuming they’re not Fetching you into oblivion; I don’t disagree. The payoffs are not good enough though. I have never seen any evidence that one successfully plays Mentor or Teferi to beat Oko. Beating Lurrus is comparatively easy (kill it and their deck has no recovery mechanism), so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to look at other cards from the perspective of “how does this help me beat Oko (and the Uro/Ice-Fangs he’s played with).” There’s not really another question worth asking a legacy deck to answer than those two cards (and the usual suspects they see play with), assuming the combo matchup is reasonable.

  7. #47

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    I like in at least the one video he's got 3 force of will's in the SB. I'm feeling like it's correct to lose Lutri vs. turn 1 or 2 combo decks to pick up the forces.
    That does seem like a real option, though what feels a bit scarier is the redundant combo decks like elves or zirda where the card advantage is also an issue. I would definitely consider it.

  8. #48

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Here's a short tournament report.

    The first 3 matches are from yesterday’s FNM, the last are matches I was testing with a friend. One thing he said is that he felt incredibly favored starting the matches but by the end was surprised by the decks ability to pull out wins, and also that it is *really* hard to play around anything given the nature of the deck.

    Grim Fox 0-2
    Both games I mulled and kept land heavy hands, not wanting to go down any further. He landed repetitive combo piece after combo piece. It wasn’t even close, though I feel that this match should be better. When you mull, then opp lands a karn it feels horrible (on top of them having a companion..).

    4c no red snoko 2-1
    These games were really good. I barely took game 1 on the back of just beats and burn. Loam and waste kept him slightly restricted on mana. I find myself really only using loam once or twice and that usually is enough. G2 I got him down to 5 after he had cast uro 3 times. He cast it a final time, and then attacked 3-4 times with it. I had a TNN and was real close but couldn’t quite get there. I scooped as he went to 18.

    G3 we forced each other's early sylvan libraries. He untapped and hit me with b2b t3 or 4 I think, but I had a noble, reclaimer, and royal scions, which pumped the reclaimer and I swung until opp was at 8 life and scions were at 8 loyalty. I risked the veil he didn’t end up having and went for it.

    Karn post stompy
    I turn 1 waste his cloudpost, then pierced his next spell. He played a needle on wasteland but I burned and attacked him down. G2 he starts off with a needle but I started with a grudge that took out the needle and a monolith. I hit a couple more wastelands while attacking him down, always keeping him off critical mana.

    UR Delver (haste / burn build) 1-2
    These games were swingy. We wasted each other back and forth. A late game intuition into loam let me get ahead and take it. I lost game 2 to a large sprite dragon after removing his first few threats. G3 I lost to my own play mistake. I tried to get cute and snag a dragon, which got blasted. I tried to copy it with lutri but lutri got dazed and it was a blowout. If I had just incinerated the dragon instead opp could have still pumped the dragon up but I could have snagged it and opp would have been out cards, and at a low life total with me and an active goyf plus an unused lutri.
    Them the beats. Lost to my own misplay.

    Elves 2-1
    The inconsistency in removal is one of the more difficult parts. G1 I got stomped and combo-d. G2 my removal lined up very well with fork into snap fork plus lutri into more burn. G3 He landed a quick choke that I couldn’t counter. I had a volc and a grove. I untapped and played waterlogged grove into zenith for a noble. It ended up being a very long and grindy game, with opp landing an archon off a cavern and me playing jace to bounce it a few turns in a row while I beat down with lutri and some other nonsense. Opp tapped out to play a craterhoof and just win the game with me at a low life total but I had force.

    Also played 4 pre-side games against Maverick. It felt even-ish, 2-2. Both were swingy games. Green really pulled its weight in these games, along with the delver matchup with scooze and loam. Goyf can also just..get in there.

    I mostly copied the 4-2 Challenge list, from Andre4marini I believe. I changed a few things. I added Royal Scions, and GSZ. Both were very good in the matches where they showed up. GSZ is especially good. My first few matches green felt like it didn't do much, though the last few matches it was 100% the reason I was able to stay in the games. The deck is SUPER fun. I often forgot to not shuffle my companion into my deck and had to be reminded about the reveal a couple of times. Its odd playing with this new mechanic.

    1 Dack Fayden
    1 Oko, Thief of Crowns
    1 Bonecrusher Giant
    1 Brazen Borrower
    1 Elvish Reclaimer
    1 Gilded Goose
    1 Hexdrinker
    1 Noble Hierarch
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Tarmogoyf
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    1 Young Pyromancer
    1 Chain Lightning
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    1 Abrade
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Counterspell
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Daze
    1 Incinerate
    1 Fire // Ice
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Force of Will
    1 Intuition
    1 Lightning Bolt
    1 Punishing Fire
    1 Royal Scions
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    1 Green Sun’s Zenith
    1 Thought Scour
    1 Vapor Snag
    1 Veil of Summer
    1 Sylvan Library

    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Wasteland
    1 Waterlogged Grove


    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Blazing Volley
    1 Cindervines
    1 Collector Ouphe
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Karakas
    1 Lutri, the Spellchaser
    1 Null Rod
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Return to Nature
    1 Submerge
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 JTMS

  9. #49

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    I think the biggest payoffs for lutri are the suspend spells since they are so much faster (since they are free on the turn you cast them). I think you probably want to build around a punishing waterfalls shell instead of 4c goodstuff one. Otherwise I don't think he's worth losing 3 fow.

    Additionall [card] Release to the Wind [/card] is infintite etbs & cast triggers with lutri and is probably worth building around.

  10. #50
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Additionall Release to the Wind is infintite etbs & cast triggers with lutri and is probably worth building around.
    I don’t see how this card offers anything not already covered by Karakas. You’d be giving opponents a way back into the game by having this in your opening hand and engaging in a long sequence of get to 3 mana, do a Lutri thing, cast this spell, and then probably need another untap step to do something with Lutri. After the printing of Brazen Borrower, I don’t think a card like this can be justified b/c it’s also anti-Depths.

  11. #51

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I don’t see how this card offers anything not already covered by Karakas. You’d be giving opponents a way back into the game by having this in your opening hand and engaging in a long sequence of get to 3 mana, do a Lutri thing, cast this spell, and then probably need another untap step to do something with Lutri. After the printing of Brazen Borrower, I don’t think a card like this can be justified b/c it’s also anti-Depths.
    If you cast this card and cast lutri in response, lutri can copy it targeting itself. Allowing you to cast lutri again for free, and copy it again. Giving you infinite etb & cast triggers that turn.

    Karakas isn't free. This was mentioned on an eternal glory podcast.

  12. #52
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    If you cast this card and cast lutri in response, lutri can copy it targeting itself. Allowing you to cast lutri again for free, and copy it again. Giving you infinite etb & cast triggers that turn.

    Karakas isn't free. This was mentioned on an eternal glory podcast.
    So you cast this 3 drop spell targeting something, then also have 3 more mana to cast Lutri to copy it...and your opponent is just going to let all this happen (i.e. they’re not just going to counter your spell after you cast Lutri holding priority - and we’re in a 6 land drops made point of the game). Then you can exile Lutri with the copy, then recast Lutri to repeat this loop for what benefit???

    ^This is bad deck construction. This is a convoluted combo needing all kinds of things to go right, which means that if it’s working, your opponent died a long time ago and this is just winmore. You don’t have to work this hard when all you have to do is put a must-counter spell on the stack, and if opponent goes to counter it you cast Lutri and get it anyway. If the opponent is playing a strategy that can’t stop you, or they can’t fight back (perhaps confirmed by Peek), then you offensively double-up game ending spells. Just note that those must-counter spells have to be must-counters by themselves.

    Karakas is a cost in decks that are playing 4x Daze and Karakas + Badlands/Bayou/Plateau, yes. Those deck also don’t have a Crop Rot or GSZ/Reclaimer. There is a cost in Lutri, but you would win more games with it in your deck than without. Karakas is uncounterable and does the whole Lutri spam combo by itself, there is no reason to resort to janky cards with mana cost demands (Lutri already costs 3 on the turn you would use him).

  13. #53

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    So you cast this 3 drop spell targeting something, then also have 3 more mana to cast Lutri to copy it...and your opponent is just going to let all this happen (i.e. they’re not just going to counter your spell after you cast Lutri holding priority - and we’re in a 6 land drops made point of the game). Then you can exile Lutri with the copy, then recast Lutri to repeat this loop for what benefit???

    ^This is bad deck construction. This is a convoluted combo needing all kinds of things to go right, which means that if it’s working, your opponent died a long time ago and this is just winmore. You don’t have to work this hard when all you have to do is put a must-counter spell on the stack, and if opponent goes to counter it you cast Lutri and get it anyway. If the opponent is playing a strategy that can’t stop you, or they can’t fight back (perhaps confirmed by Peek), then you offensively double-up game ending spells. Just note that those must-counter spells have to be must-counters by themselves.

    Karakas is a cost in decks that are playing 4x Daze and Karakas + Badlands/Bayou/Plateau, yes. Those deck also don’t have a Crop Rot or GSZ/Reclaimer. There is a cost in Lutri, but you would win more games with it in your deck than without. Karakas is uncounterable and does the whole Lutri spam combo by itself, there is no reason to resort to janky cards with mana cost demands (Lutri already costs 3 on the turn you would use him).
    I just feel if you are going to play 4c goodstuff you should just play yorion.

    You are probably correct that it is too expensive to have a 6cmc combo, but I think that highlights why this deck wants to play in more of a cascade/suspend shell.

  14. #54
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    but I think that highlights why this deck wants to play in more of a cascade/suspend shell.
    This has been my position throughout the entire thread, yes. This is good enough to win games, and there is no reason to jank out for some convoluted winmore when the payoffs are already independently good without needing Lutri, yet they can all combo with him.

  15. #55
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by nimkee View Post
    Grim Fox 0-2
    Both games I mulled and kept land heavy hands, not wanting to go down any further. He landed repetitive combo piece after combo piece. It wasn’t even close, though I feel that this match should be better. When you mull, then opp lands a karn it feels horrible (on top of them having a companion..).
    Because you're not playing 4 FoW, you need to compensate by running other answers to fast combo. This means you probably need things like Force of Vigor (another Turn 0 answer) and GSZ into Collector Ouphe in the maindeck. That should help your TES, Bomberman, and Stompy matchups too. Luckily most explosive combo is artifact-based right now.

    To help the combo matches you probably need every turn 1 counter too: Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Stifle, Veil of Summer, Daze, Flusterstorm, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast. You want the same % of combo answers as a 4-of fair blue deck, otherwise combo will stomp you before Lutri comes online.


    UR Delver (haste / burn build) 1-2
    These games were swingy. We wasted each other back and forth.
    I think this is a classic mistake. UR Delver can run off 1-2 lands. Lutri needs 3-4 lands. The mana hungry deck shouldn't Waste the low-cmc deck for tempo. Trading lands 1-for-1 favors them and disadvantages the mana hungry deck. Lutri runs Wasteland, but it should be used for surgical strikes (e.g. remove Karakas, kill Depths, cut them off double black so they can't cast Lurrus), not general manascrew.

    I watched some Lutri streams where other players made the same mistake and then struggled to do much. Lutri needs its mana. Lutri can't capitalize on the tempo of the opponent missing a land drop the way Delver can. Don't try to beat Delver at tempo. Play a ramp game and beat them with card advantage. You are the control player in that matchup, they are the aggressor.


    Elves 2-1
    The inconsistency in removal is one of the more difficult parts.
    Pyrokinesis and Submerge in the board give you more free answers. Free instants are really strong with Lutri.

    I notice most of your removal is 1-for-1 or slow (Punishing Fire, walkers). Beating creature-heavy decks like Elves and Maverick with 1-for-1s is tough. Do you have room for any board wipes in the SB? Even a Pyroclasm effect? 1-of Blazing Volley doesn't seem like enough.

  16. #56

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    You can see from the list that I do run a lot of those cards but they are not the greatest against Fox and friends. I actually think there are enough maindeck answers but I had some pretty bad hands / draws. The deck is so redundant too that after I answer a fox, a couple monoliths, and a Karn, then he untaps with a Karn and fetches up a combo piece. Its a tougher matchup than I expected. This guy also runs a weird 3 color astrolabe version of the deck so has FoW and Veil backup.

    Ouphe in the main is an idea, I might move it to the main.

    I didn't crack my wastelands immediately, not until opp missed a land drop and I could take him off red one game, or until I had loam another. The deck can be quite mana-intensive.

    Submerge was amazing. Pyrokinesis is an idea I hadn't thought of. I feel like I do need some other sweepers, maybe electrickery in the main wouldn't be so bad.

    I have a stack of about 100 cards I considered. It feels like constructing an edh deck lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Because you're not playing 4 FoW, you need to compensate by running other answers to fast combo. This means you probably need things like Force of Vigor (another Turn 0 answer) and GSZ into Collector Ouphe in the maindeck. That should help your TES, Bomberman, and Stompy matchups too. Luckily most explosive combo is artifact-based right now.

    To help the combo matches you probably need every turn 1 counter too: Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Stifle, Veil of Summer, Daze, Flusterstorm, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast. You want the same % of combo answers as a 4-of fair blue deck, otherwise combo will stomp you before Lutri comes online.




    I think this is a classic mistake. UR Delver can run off 1-2 lands. Lutri needs 3-4 lands. The mana hungry deck shouldn't Waste the low-cmc deck for tempo. Trading lands 1-for-1 favors them and disadvantages the mana hungry deck. Lutri runs Wasteland, but it should be used for surgical strikes (e.g. remove Karakas, kill Depths, cut them off double black so they can't cast Lurrus), not general manascrew.

    I watched some Lutri streams where other players made the same mistake and then struggled to do much. Lutri needs its mana. Lutri can't capitalize on the tempo of the opponent missing a land drop the way Delver can. Don't try to beat Delver at tempo. Play a ramp game and beat them with card advantage. You are the control player in that matchup, they are the aggressor.




    Pyrokinesis and Submerge in the board give you more free answers. Free instants are really strong with Lutri.

    I notice most of your removal is 1-for-1 or slow (Punishing Fire, walkers). Beating creature-heavy decks like Elves and Maverick with 1-for-1s is tough. Do you have room for any board wipes in the SB? Even a Pyroclasm effect? 1-of Blazing Volley doesn't seem like enough.

  17. #57
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by nimkee View Post
    This guy also runs a weird 3 color astrolabe version of the deck so has FoW and Veil backup.
    That's the better version of Fox. The Salvagers version is easy to disrupt. The Bant version has better protection and card draw. I would expect to see more of that version. I've been testing Bant Fox since before the release. It's more resilient against hate and can beat regular blue decks with the full set of counters, so singleton really needs to have enough answers.

    not until opp missed a land drop and I could take him off red one game
    Can you really take him off red though? With blue he has 4 Brainstorm + 4 Ponder + X Preordain + fetches to find red again. Meanwhile you're down at least 2 lands (you Wasted each other)... Did you have 3-4 lands left or a Loam after you cracked that Waste? If not, you probably needed the land more than him. How did you end up losing that game?

    I just think trying to color-screw a 2-color 1-drop tempo deck is like a control deck trying to race an aggro deck.

    It's like how Goblins plays against Delver. Sure they run Waste & Port, but they win more blue matches by casting Ringleader than by trying to manascrew a tempo deck (if Vial/Lackey didn't stick). Old UW Landstill used to do the same thing. Tapping Wasteland for mana is tech.

  18. #58
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    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Old UW Landstill used to do the same thing. Tapping Wasteland for mana is tech.
    We still do. Colorless land mismanagement is one of the easiest ways to throw a game. It’s important to think about the mana costs of future plays, and how much you’re setting yourself back. Against the colored Fox decks it is likely more valuable to get to 4 mana with Wasteland and Lutri-Fork 1 mana burn spells and counterspells directed at their walkers.

  19. #59

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    The game I lost I didn't waste him, though I did get wasted myself. It was funny as I went to remove the sprite dragon he had fow to back it up, but he also had fireblast and PoP in hand. It was brutal. Edit: I do actually use wasteland as much for mana as I do wasting, unless I have a loam around or an excess of lands. The snoko list I played against I did make an exception as they didn't have a labe out yet and I was able to cut him off a color for a few turns.

    I would really like access to basics but am not sure the deck can actually support it, even if just an island and a forest. I've also wondered if a Taiga would be okay. It would really help with choke, as waterlogged / mana dork and wasteland did. The deck is more mana hungry than I anticipated and because of that I am considering adding a bird to the dork list.

    Any thoughts on the basics, bird, or taiga?

    Is anyone else testing builds?


    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    That's the better version of Fox. The Salvagers version is easy to disrupt. The Bant version has better protection and card draw. I would expect to see more of that version. I've been testing Bant Fox since before the release. It's more resilient against hate and can beat regular blue decks with the full set of counters, so singleton really needs to have enough answers.



    Can you really take him off red though? With blue he has 4 Brainstorm + 4 Ponder + X Preordain + fetches to find red again. Meanwhile you're down at least 2 lands (you Wasted each other)... Did you have 3-4 lands left or a Loam after you cracked that Waste? If not, you probably needed the land more than him. How did you end up losing that game?

    I just think trying to color-screw a 2-color 1-drop tempo deck is like a control deck trying to race an aggro deck.

    It's like how Goblins plays against Delver. Sure they run Waste & Port, but they win more blue matches by casting Ringleader than by trying to manascrew a tempo deck (if Vial/Lackey didn't stick). Old UW Landstill used to do the same thing. Tapping Wasteland for mana is tech.

  20. #60

    Re: Otter Nonsense featuring Lulululutri, the Spellchaser

    2-0-1, the draw was to Lurrus Grixis Delver, that I had the win on board for but we went to time after a long, long grindy g2. I changed the list a little. – Daze, - Crop rotation. + V. Clique + Jace.

    1 Dack Fayden
    1 Oko, Thief of Crowns
    1 Bonecrusher Giant
    1 Brazen Borrower
    1 Elvish Reclaimer
    1 Gilded Goose
    1 Hexdrinker
    1 Noble Hierarch
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Tarmogoyf
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    1 V. Clique
    1 Young Pyromancer
    1 Chain Lightning
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    1 Abrade
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Counterspell
    1 Incinerate
    1 Fire // Ice
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Force of Will
    1 Intuition
    1 Lightning Bolt
    1 Punishing Fire
    1 Royal Scions
    1 JTMS
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    1 Green Sun’s Zenith
    1 Thought Scour
    1 Vapor Snag
    1 Veil of Summer
    1 Sylvan Library

    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Mystic Sanctuary
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Wasteland
    1 Waterlogged Grove

    1 Lutri, the Spellchaser
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Blazing Volley
    1 Electrickery
    1 Cindervines
    1 Collector Ouphe
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Karakas
    1 Null Rod
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Return to Nature
    1 Submerge
    1 Surgical Extraction

    2-0 Bant Zirda.
    Game 1 my removal just barely lined up and we were both close to top-deck mode. I lutri’d abrade at the end for double removal. G2 I brought in 7 sideboard cards, 2 blasts null rod cinder ouphe return and grudge. I wasted a tundra, then opp misread Lutri thinking it was one of lands too so fetched a tundra which I wasted. His tomb took him low enough and I had a very reactive hand full of permission and removal. Cindervines and his own tomb did about 14 or so points of damage to him.

    1-1 Grixis Lurrus Delver.
    I got delvered, almost stabilized with an Uro. He didn’t get bauble but was casting delvers from the yard. G2 I won off of an early sylvan, oko, and goyf after eventually stabilizing. No bauble again this game though recurring spellbomb was a thing. He had to take out his own gy after my goyf got big and he didn’t have removal. G3 I started off with an early loam lock and basically the win on board. Opp went to counter loam and I had veil back up. I couldn’t get it in turns but it was there for the taking.

    2-0 UR Delver
    G1 I stabilized at 3 life, cast a Jace and fate-sealed away the rest of the game until I had close to lethal on board and some permission in hand. I was never in a strong enough spot to cast Lutri.
    It was a very close game. G2 I only sided in 4 cards, the blasts and a cindervines. G2 I kept a hand with bs, fluster, and intuition. Opp kept a burn heavy hand. He cantripped and at 4 lands chained me, I chained back, he chained back, and I flustered it. With 4 mana up I intuitioned, which resolved and I grabbed wasteland, uro, and loam. He gives me loam. I played a fetch and had 5 lands in the yard so cast Uro, drew and played and wasted one of his lands. He untapped and double chained Uro. I brainstormed into pyromancer, snag, and hexdrinker. I played pyro with some cards up to cast, and by next turn had filled my yard to escape uro again. Opp scooped. Lutri was also a nonfactor in this game.

    The green splash is very strong against any fair decks or delver strategies. The green splash out of the board was good against Zirda as well.

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