Yeah I can't remember the last time that "dies to removal" had any validity and it puzzles me to still see this argument show up to dismiss new cards.
Though you have missed out a con, and that is being a terrible topdeck. But you can probably try to remedy this by gearing your list with repeatable noncombat damage sources, like Grim Lavamancer.
Keldon Megaliths!Originally Posted by Glass House
Ramunap Ruins!
Their TIME HAS COME!!!
I think this is just barely not good enough, but it is interesting, say, combined with Sylvan Library (and Blue cards of course).
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Unearth? Imagine if Lurrus was still legal...Creature - Human Cleric Lifelink 1/1
When Archdemon's Vessel enters the battlefield, if it entered from your graveyard or was cast from your graveyard, exile it. If you do, create a 5/5 black demon creature token with flying.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
on Incenerator...
I mean you could have played 2x Volc and Thing in the Ice this whole time in burn if this is what you wanted - a dude in play and an empty hand.
The negatives really just come down to timing. 6/6 for R presumes it's your third spell of the turn, so nominally turn 3, turn 2 at the fastest with a suspended Rift Bolt.
But then, again nominally, the third spell of your third turn would be the sixth spell of the game, which means you should have done 15 damage already, this spell being 18 damage total.
The arguments that it outclasses Gurmag Angler presumes that there is ever an instance where Burn wants to fight a Gurmag Angler, and that the best removal isn't the removal of the opponent through state based effects.
The window of the game when this creature starts being relevant is the same window when the game should be ending with any topdeck burn spell, which incidentally is the worst time to draw this.
I'm not saying this creature doesn't have a place in Legacy, I just don't see cutting any cards in my Burn list to run this creature.
You can enable it on T2 with Rift Bolt, Fireblast (and even Seal of Fire if this thing turns out to be good enough).
This thing gives Burn staying power if the match gets drawn out. A 6/6 trampler with upside is nothing to sneeze at as your burn can still be used in both offensive and defense while still targeting their face. This is especially important in a format where everybody spams Elks, Strixes and Coatls. You nuke their face AND clear the way.
If a 6/6 trampler with upside that can come down on T2 or T3 with literally no downside is too weak, I don't know anymore.
@Barook Burn counts on piecemeal damage starting on turn 1 (Guide/Swiftspear). Incinerator, like Delver, gets worse with other creatures. So you sac all Eidolon (never happening) or a playset of your turn 1 dudes...so there goes most of your turn 1 openers (recall that you have to sandbag every card not called Rift Bolt or 1-drop dude, and wait for turn 2...and a second land).
So you maybe get this 6/6 on turn 2 playing headlong into Daze, but let’s say it resolved; you’re running out of cards in hand to capitalize on the bottom part of that text box...and you’re putting Eidolon off until turn 3 now?
I'm not saying it's too weak, I'm saying it is antithetical to the classic game plan of Burn.
If anything, it's too strong.
If it were a 4/4 trample for 3R, that's a whole other discussion. Turn 2 powered out by any burn spell, sign me up.
Risky but interesting. Maybe a one-of sideboard in Maverick sort of decks in matches where you expect to be grinding?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I think this is actually plenty good enough. It's almost trivially easy to hit a 2nd draw via cantrips, Sylvan Library, and also by casting Brainstorm on your opponent's turn. It's like a more fragile Green version of Bitterblossom, except that the tokens are quite a bit more powerful and can take over a game quickly.
I think this is just barely not good enough, but it is interesting, say, combined with Sylvan Library (and Blue cards of course).
It being legendary does make it harder to justify running more than 1 or 2 copies, but I think any UGx aggro-control decks could definitely consider slotting a copy in their 75.
I’m going to test this as a karn target in Shortcake. Get ready for this thing to be Welded and Engineered back and forth like crazy
Risky but interesting. Maybe a one-of sideboard in Maverick sort of decks in matches where you expect to be grinding?
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
Oh, wow, in my haste, I failed to even read the card properly and notice the "until Idol leaves the battlefield" clause there. Definitely much better, considering that.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Dies to removal has validity in the world where cards having built-in advantage is so ubiquitous. Simply trading one-for-one just isn't good enough.
Yeah, since most UGx decks have the majority of their cards say, at least, "Draw a card" (or more), this seems like just straight gravy to add as a fun-of. Legendary could help a bit in that sense, since you can protect it with Karakas. Even if you only manage to Brainstorm in response to removal on her, I don't think that is terrible value, per se. We shall see though.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
It doesn't give burn staying power if the match gets drawn out because if the match gets drawn out you're going to have to pay full price. Unless the match is drawn out because you're not casting spells in which case who's fault is it that the match is drawn out? Win the game already!You can enable it on T2 with Rift Bolt, Fireblast (and even Seal of Fire if this thing turns out to be good enough).
This thing gives Burn staying power if the match gets drawn out. A 6/6 trampler with upside is nothing to sneeze at as your burn can still be used in both offensive and defense while still targeting their face. This is especially important in a format where everybody spams Elks, Strixes and Coatls. You nuke their face AND clear the way.
If a 6/6 trampler with upside that can come down on T2 or T3 with literally no downside is too weak, I don't know anymore.
Feel like this does a solid Young Pyromancer impression in UGx Delver. BUG gets you Baleful Strix too. Or some greed pile with 4x Abundant Growth and Arcumn's Astrolabe
I think this is just barely not good enough, but it is interesting, say, combined with Sylvan Library (and Blue cards of course).
EDIT: holy crap they're 2/2s
What decks would run Idol? I don't see it slotting into any existing deck. For D&T and Maverick, it seems kinda slow and hard to grab enough creatures to make it worthwhile.
Nice synergy with Emry, though.
Fun-of? Nah man you run a bunch of these. Who cares if you can't play the second one when you get a free grizzly bear every turn and if the game drags out you have "4GG: your creatures are 4/4s." It and the tokens survive Plague Engineer too.
I eagerly salute any and everything that makes Green the new Red,.
But yeah, 2/2's are strong. Come to think of it, in an "average" Snow deck, does Jolrael trigger off a high percent of spells than YP would in a Delver deck? Probably not, but I think it might be close.
(Well, "close" but I looked at two recent lists, Snow has 23 spells that would tigger this, Grixis has 29 spells. But, in Snow, Jace, Library and Uro can trigger it recursively, not once-off.)
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
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