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Thread: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

  1. #61
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    I think it will end up duress main, Veil side. My local is fairly blue-light.

    I have officially switched to Surgical main, Blossom side. Too many games where it showed up too late to matter. It's a grindy matchup kind of card for 4c/miracles, anything that gives me time to leverage my life total.

    As far as attacking mana, Wasteland + Ashiok is very good. Ashiok actually makes the mill plan realistic, too. Once it gets rolling its 5-6 cards a turn, each time taking more out of opponents deck that could get them out of the Bridge or Lantern lock.
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  2. #62

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    I wasn't super big on Bitterblossom to begin with tbh but I haven't really had any experience playing with/against the card so I figured I was probably just understating its value lol. I'd assume that it probably isn't super fantastic if it doesn't show up early in the game, taking it out for Surgicals is probably a good call. I think that Lantern decks should always try to find a way to shove Surgicals in main tbh considering how much synergy we have with it

  3. #63
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Agreed. Blossom was, originally, a metagame call to fight the blue-stew dominated scene. It's still very good, in the right matchups.

    EDIT: Updated OP list, thinking about Dark Confidant sideboard again.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 07-06-2020 at 08:21 AM.
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    I would love suggestions for the Burn and Storm matchups. I have a couple ideas, but none seem fantastic. Do I just let the matchup go or do I try and maneuver into 2-3 slots to address them?

    Short list:

    Witchbane Orb
    Lodestone Golem
    Damping Sphere
    Mindbreak Trap
    Dragon's Claw


    I'm leaning towards 2x Witchbane Orb. I have Dark Ritual to power it out and Stirrings to find it.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 07-06-2020 at 09:58 AM.
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  5. #65

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Witchbane looks like probably the best answer out of those, although Damping Sphere also gets bonus points for coming down t2 without dark rit. Dragon Claw is too narrow, don't think I'd side cards for the burn matchup specifically. Mindbreak could be ok. Not sure about Lodestone, being a 4/4 body is nice but does mean burn can potentially out it with a fireblast or something. Not sure if it being a creature comes up in the storm matchup though

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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sella View Post
    Witchbane looks like probably the best answer out of those, although Damping Sphere also gets bonus points for coming down t2 without dark rit. Dragon Claw is too narrow, don't think I'd side cards for the burn matchup specifically. Mindbreak could be ok. Not sure about Lodestone, being a 4/4 body is nice but does mean burn can potentially out it with a fireblast or something. Not sure if it being a creature comes up in the storm matchup though
    Lodestone is 5/3, and would be better against Storm and terrible against Burn. I think Orb is best. The idea behind Lodestone is that most people will board out creature removal. The real issue is they won't ever board out their Okos.
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  7. #67

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Lodestone is 5/3, and would be better against Storm and terrible against Burn. I think Orb is best. The idea behind Lodestone is that most people will board out creature removal. The real issue is they won't ever board out their Okos.
    In my defense I haven't had my morning coffee yet, haha

    Yeah, Oko as always will continue to be an issue. The main problem I see is that we don't have much of a clock and the lantern soft-lock isn't super great against past in flames so they'll eventually find an out if we durdle. I guess Lodestone would be nice for the beats, then again they could just go for a Warrens turn and even if we throw down lantern + they have >5 cards in hand they still have a bunch of chump blockers to stall. Not having the win button really hurts in this matchup.

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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    I think with maindeck discard into surgical, plus Ashiok exiling graveyards, Storm isn't an atrocious matchup. We're likely still less than 50% against them pre-board, but post board we get Hymn to Tourach, Veil of Summer to stop Tendrils, Maelstrom Pulse for Warrens, and potentially Engineered Explosives/Ratchet Bomb for Warrens. Wasteland helps keep them off lands if we can slow them down with a Thoughtseize/Duress, Abrupt Decay can deal with Chrome Mox/Opal. There are definitely ways to attack what they are doing, but none of them alone are enough to stop them cold.

    So Burn is obviously the worst matchup that I've tested so far. Not only can they just burn us out quickly but Bridge being an artifact lets their sideboard hate come online. Hell, Bridge is known technology for Burn sideboards anyways. This matchup was the primary reason for attempting the Depths sideboard; Burn has a hard time racing Turbo Depths. The other option is to try and leverage something like Witchbane Orb, which has utility against other matchups but is again an artifact that turns on Smash to Smithereens/Abrade. Another idea would be to transition into a Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek deck post-board. It doesn't win on the spot, but the lifegain would easily put us out of burn range if allowed to untap. That last line is what makes it sketchy: will they allow you to untap or just unload into a Fireblast and win? Not to mention Sulfuric Vortex is a common strategy for Burn. If I were on Burn, I'd be leaning on Vortex really hard due to Oko.

    Another combo to try is Reanimator: sideboard Entomb, Reanimate, and Iona, Shield of Emeria. It couldn't be traditional Reanimator lie with Griselbrand because we could still get burned out. It would have to be Iona to lock Burn out. I can't think of any other reanimate targets that would be worth including, maybe Blightsteel Colossus, Platinum Emperion, or Platinum Angel. I like that Angel is actually hard-castable with Dark Rituals, but I wouldn't rely on that plan too heavily.

    So in reality, the options are basically: ignore the matchup and board a couple broad spectrum cards in the sideboard (Orb) or transform into some sort of combo deck in the sideboard to address the Burn matchup along with other problematic matchups.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 07-08-2020 at 09:43 AM.
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    This is my theoretical Depths sideboard plan:

    4x Dark Depths
    4x Thespian's Stage
    3x Crop Rotation
    3x Vampire Hexmage
    1x Sejiri Steppe


    Maindeck would have this change:
    -2 Blooming Marsh
    +2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


    Sideboard plan:
    -3 Wasteland
    -1 Buried Ruin
    -4 Ensnaring Bridge
    -2 Cursed Scroll
    -3 Ashiok, Dream Render
    -2 Ghoulcaller's Bell

    EDIT: A sideboard plan of 4x Lotus Petal, 4x Cabal Ritual, 4x Manamorphose, 3x Tendrils of Agony could also be spicy. There isn't any synergy with Ancient Stirrings so it's likely worse than Depths, but it's still seems just crazy enough to get the job done.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 07-08-2020 at 11:43 AM.
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  10. #70

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Forgot about Ashiok. Yeah, Storm seems winnable.

    I still really like the Depths sb plan just because it seems funny, but the biggest question for me is what matchups it helps against other than burn. I just don't feel like Burn is a deck worth dedicating sb slots for, but rather that its always good to pick sb cards for other matchups that also help against burn, and honestly burn being our worst matchup is something I can live with. That is of course assuming your locals isn't over-saturated with Burn (I once went to a tourney at a smaller shop and every local player there was on burn, one of the dudes from our shop was on Lands, he got price of progressed like 20 million times. Not a great day for him haha)

  11. #71
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Yeah, that's the other option: ignore burn. I can see an argument for playing maindeck Collective Brutality instead of Duress, which has pretty good value against burn, especially if I can turn dead cards into a 3-fold effect (gain 2, kill a Guide, take a burn spell.) It has pretty good potential against a lot of other decks, too. I think I'll find a way to get CB into the maindeck and then find a couple reasonable options for 2-3 sideboard slots that address burn but have other applications.

    Good reasoning, I love your feedback!
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Brutality is good, I definitely like the flexibility.

    The most important card in the deck is Bridge, so I need to find a way to either duplicate its effect or play a tutor that gets it. Talisman is too risky without Ashiok, Scheming Symmetry is only good of I have a mill rock, Infernal Tutor needs me to be hellbent, and Dark Petition costs 5 mana. I do like that Petition, if its live, gives me the mana to play Bridge. That's where I will start. Petiton also gets me Lantern, which is the 2nd most important card. It would be nice to have another way to make Dark Ritual relevant in the late game.

    The deck is great, and very consistent, but it has a few crucial cards it needs to see every game. Then again, most of my testing has been against Delver, which I expect to be one of the more common decks I face along with Snoko. That could be affecting my perspective
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  13. #73

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    I think you're on to something with Brutality. There were a lot of instances when I was testing my old pox-focused list where I'd find myself casting Thoughtseizes for no reason just so mana dorks couldn't slip under Bridge. Brutality is a good card by itself anyways and doubling as a discard outlet is icing on the cake.

    The importance of Lantern/Bridge really comes down to the matchup. I don't care much about seeing Lantern right away vs. a deck like Show and Tell since if you land a bridge that's pretty much game anyways (at least in g1). Same deal with reanimator, just gotta slam t1 dark rit + bridge and hold a Surgical for Tidespout Tyrant.

    If we aren't seeing our pieces consistently enough and have to add more searchers petition could be decent. If we do go with petition I feel like we have to prioritize mulling for lantern over bridge since seeing bridge later is usually fine while in most fair matchups we pretty much always want to have lantern + mill rock down t2. Getting mana back does mitigate the cost once we actually cast it, being able to petition into bridge is pretty nice, but the main thing I'd watch for in testing is how often the mana cost comes up - not coming down until t3-5 could be a bit problematic with some hands (although it could come down earlier if we open something silly like double dark rit). Plus using dark rit to cast it means that's mana we're not spending for something like t1 Ashiok. So I guess that leads me back to my prior conclusion that it's pretty much a bridge searcher, which might not be too big a deal since bridge coming down t5 is probably fast enough most matchups.

    How's Delver testing been? I'd imagine that we have a decent matchup into them as long as we see Lantern and mill rocks since we can manipulate their topdeck to stop delver from flipping until we find a bridge or Ashiok to sweeten the deal, but playing against Delver isn't always as simple as I wish it was haha. Same with Snowko, I had real trouble the last time I played that matchup, but I feel like my old list was just badly tuned for it since my mana denial (which my list was heavily leaning on) just didn't do as much as I hoped against it (same deal with that uw yorion deck that draws 20 million cards). Another matchup I'm really curious/worried about is D&T. They have a lot of tools maindeck and even more in the sideboard. I feel like if they stick a t1 vial and we don't have the Pithing Needle on hand for it that's probably a loss in and of itself.

  14. #74
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    I have found that the Delver matchup is decent, but they can still just tempo us out of the game with a t1 Delver backed up by Daze/Force. It's one of the biggest reasons I ended up adding the 2nd Library, we need a critical mass of must-answer threats against them. If we stumble at all it gives them a window to cast cantrips and race before we can land bridge.

    Death and Taxes doesn't seem too difficult, honestly. They have no answers to Bridge in the maindeck, we have Dark Ritual to power through Thalia, and then they are locked out with Bridge. Their mana-disruption is a little annoying, but we have Pithing Needle and Wasteland for Ports and enough basic lands to work around their Wastelands. The only real problem is Flickerwisp phasing out Bridge for a few turns to attack. However, their clock isn't incredibly fast so it won't happen in one turn, unless it's super late game. If it's that late in the game Lantern-lock should keep them off Flickerwisp. Ashiok also prevents their Stoneforge and Recruiter toolboxes, so we actually have some decent tools for that matchup. Sideboard they bring in Disenchant or Council's Judgment, which is still not that worrisome considering their lack of cantrips. I haven't tested this matchup yet, but I'm not really that worried about it. Pithing Needle on Vial is definitely one avenue to slow them down, but it's not as good as just playing out our hand into a Bridge. I don't see how they beat Bridge g1 without Flickerwisp.

    The great part about this deck is that you really only need to worry about a few specific interactions. A ton of information flows through the turns, but only some of it really matters. Once you land Bridge you just need to keep them from removing it, which makes the Lantern plan so powerful. It snowballs into an unwinnable position for opponents so you just need to find a way to win (mill or Scroll.) I've been mentally drafting a matchup write-up, which lays out the specific cards you need to deal with.

    I'm really looking for this ideal situation

    T1 - Thoughtseize, Lantern, Stirrings
    T2- Dark Ritual into Bridge/Ashiok, Sylvan Library, Abrupt Decay, Collective Brutality, Lantern + Millrock
    T3- Bridge, Maelstrom Pulse, Ashiok
    T4+ = play out my cards, find a Scroll or enough mill-rocks/Ashiok to finish them off
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Regarding Dark Petition: it makes mid-late game Dark Rituals better while also being pretty good early if enabled with Rituals. I think it's the most feasible and will be my next test. Wishclaw was ok, just dangerous without Ashiok.
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  16. #76

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Fair point about Taxes, I guess I'm just biased because I'm used to somehow losing to them even when I really shouldn't lol. I'll be looking forwards to a possible matchup write-up, I haven't really had much time to test so most of my matchup knowledge is just theory

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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sella View Post
    Fair point about Taxes, I guess I'm just biased because I'm used to somehow losing to them even when I really shouldn't lol. I'll be looking forwards to a possible matchup write-up, I haven't really had much time to test so most of my matchup knowledge is just theory
    Mine is just goldfishing, lol, so mostly theoretical as well. It can always be updated once I get some real testing in.
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    I played your list through a MTGO league because I used to play Lantern in Modern a lot and wanted to give it a try.

    Unfortunately, the 'Lantern engine' Lantern+Mill rocks was not able to control either 1) density of cantrips in blue decks 2) tutor effects/library manipulation from Goblins and Food Chain 3) Oko and Teferi that both deal with Bridge or the Lantern lock very easily, backed up by countermagic or blink effects. Yes you have discard, Needles and Ashiok, but it never seemed enough because there's a bunch of mill rocks that don't help there.

    I'd imagine that other typical decks such as Delver (aggro + counters/Oko) or Maverick (tutors and hate) would be just as hard.

    Although I won the round vs SneakShow due to the high amount of good cards vs that deck, I lost all my other matches (Goblins, Snowko, Lands, Food Chain) and it wasn't really close.

    I wish the Lantern shell could compete in Legacy, but I wouldn't hold my hopes up.

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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Yuck!

    Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. Without any real experience the list was 100% theoretical. If Bridge can't get the job done, the deck is dead. I think the main reason it was so good in Modern is because Bridge was fundamentally a lock against so many decks. In the newer era of Oko and Teferi, it seems riskier. I could play a full set of Pithing Needle, which would help offset some of your matchups. I don't think that would be enough though, if it's that bad.

    What do you think about re-tooling into a blue-deck like the earlier posts of the thread? Maybe even something with Urza.
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    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexeezay View Post
    Unfortunately, the 'Lantern engine' Lantern+Mill rocks was not able to control either 1) density of cantrips in blue decks 2) tutor effects/library manipulation from Goblins and Food Chain 3) Oko and Teferi that both deal with Bridge or the Lantern lock very easily, backed up by countermagic or blink effects. Yes you have discard, Needles and Ashiok, but it never seemed enough because there's a bunch of mill rocks that don't help there.
    That was always my skepticism of Lantern Control making it in Legacy, and it looks like your testing validated that.

    Legacy just has better cantrips and tutors to break the lock, so even when you have everything assembled the potential ceiling is lower than what it can do in Modern. Then there's also FoW, Daze, Chalice and Oko to just break the combo. Modern is a creature-heavier format that basically can't beat Ensnaring Bridge as long as you can stop them from drawing some specific cards.

    I wonder if it would work better in a blue shell with Teferi, Time Raveler to lock the opponent out of instant-speed interactions and/or Narset, Parter of Veils to stop card draw.

    Lantern-Echo


    //Artifacts: 20
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Lotus Petal
    3 Mox Opal
    4 Lantern of Insight
    4 Codex Shredder
    2 Ghoulcaller's Bell

    //Planeswalkers: 8
    4 Narset, Parter of Veils
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    //Creatures: 7
    4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
    3 Urza, Lord High Artificer

    //Spells: 8
    4 Force of Will
    4 Echo of Eons

    //Lands: 17
    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Seat of the Synod
    8 Snow-Covered Island

    //Karnboard: 6
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Walking Ballista


    Emry has natural synergy with the mill rocks as a source of recursion and card advantage. Echo also has synergy with mill rocks.

    Both Bridge and any other janky artifact tools (Needle, extra mill rocks) get better when you can hide them in the SB with Karn.

    Maybe splash white for Teferi, Time Raveler and Auriok Salvagers, or green for Oko, Thief of Crowns and Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath (and Arcum's Astrolabe).

    Edit: Oops, already suggested something like this on the 1st page and you don't want to play blue.

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