Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 93

Thread: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

  1. #21
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: Flashlight Heist

    Yeah, I think it's pretty important to see lantern, and bridge, so that's why I think Stirrings, Library, and Wishclaw are key. Stirrings with only 18 lands is also pretty stable; delver decks get away with few lands due to cantrips, so the logic tracks.

    Honestly, I am excited to see what Ashiok can do in this deck. Ashiok speeds up the mill win condition by a lot and makes up for only having 6 mill-rocks in the deck. The lock with Bridge means Ashiok will most likely live to do their job. Talisman being one-sided seems good, and seems like the best toolbox enabler for this particular strategy.

    I'm putting this together in paper today, amped to try it out soon.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  2. #22
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: Flashlight Heist

    Initial results are promising! Wishclaw is very good at finding necessary lock pieces, and if I get to Wasteland my opponent once ot twice I can keep them off the mana to cast their outs to Bridge. Ashiok, as expected, worked amazing. I am reminded as well that if my opponent uses Wishclaw I get it back. They may be able to tutor for something, but I still get to do it twice.

    The card that has dissapointed me so far is Mox Opal. I think I'm going to cut it for a full set of Dark Ritual, which leaves me with an open slot. Not sure what that slot will be, most likely another discard spell. It's very powerful to get a turn 1 Ashiok, or just play multiple spells. Lotus Petal is another option, but I think Ritual is the best of the fast mana options. Opal just doesn't reliably get me t1-2 Ashiok or Bridge.

    The other option is to cut the Rituals for more artifacts, which would turn on Opal easier. Welding Jar comes to mind.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 06-05-2020 at 03:23 PM.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  3. #23

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    I guess with Opal you could consider moving Nihil Spellbomb to the main and Surgical Extraction to the side? To me Spellbomb seems like the better maindeck card (findable by Ancient Stirrings, cycles when you don’t need it), but I could maybe see the occasional turn-0 interaction that Surgical provides being more important. You’ve probably already thought about this.

  4. #24
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    I guess with Opal you could consider moving Nihil Spellbomb to the main and Surgical Extraction to the side? To me Spellbomb seems like the better maindeck card (findable by Ancient Stirrings, cycles when you don’t need it), but I could maybe see the occasional turn-0 interaction that Surgical provides being more important. You’ve probably already thought about this.
    Good thoughts! I think that Ancient Stirrings is powerful enough to also enable those cards out of the sideboard. I am keeping a keen eye out for colorless cards (artifacts and lands) that can be suitable sideboard cards that make the deck more consistent.

    Surgical fills a couple of different roles in this deck, and its not as clear-cut as 'free graveyard hate'. It also allows me to target opponent's cards that are outs to Bridge. Once I extract the outs, Bridge wins the game. Cards like Abrupt Decay, Kolaghan's Command, Disenchant, and Council's Judgement can all be dealt with by Surgical. Exiling cards in their graveyard is also a duty that Ashiok does very well. Ashiok is the real all-star in this deck, for sure.

    To anyone else interested: the primer has been updated! Pretty amped to see what this deck can do.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  5. #25
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Next testing phase, once I get 30+ games in with the primer list, is to go back to Mox Opal and reconfigure the artifact count. I think the key to making Opal work will be adding in Mishra's Bauble. It will be hard to squeeze it in, but I think it's possible. Doing the below will be a net-gain of 5 artifacts, without the addition of artifact lands (which don't seem worth the risk, honestly.) If the artifact lands were fetchable I would 100% play them, but otherwise they make the mana-base unstable. It seems intuitive to just cram in some number of Vault of Whispers, but it throws the initial mana-source count off. I want at least 13 initial black sources while also having 13 initial green sources. Opal can help, but I want it bulletproof. Even at 13 I'm nervous, it really should be 14 of each.

    -4 Dark Ritual
    -1 Pithing Needle
    -1 Noxious Revival
    -1 Wishclaw Talisman


    +3 Mox Opal
    +4 Mishra's Bauble
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  6. #26

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Ancient Stirrings and Mox Opal really reward cheap artifacts. You’ve already got the best ones, but Meekstone could exist in the sometimes-sideboard, depending on what matchups are hard. In a matchup where it’s good, you can jam it on turn 1 with no regrets (unlike, sometimes, Needle, where there can be tension between turning on metalcraft and waiting for more information — not that Needle isn’t still great).

    Grafdigger’s Cage similarly doesn’t constrain you at all. In its good matchups, you can also jam it on turn 1 for metalcraft or dig for it with Stirrings. It could be in the sometimes-sideboard.

    (Admittedly, grave hate and stopping big creatures are probably not where you’re hurting, given the key cards of your deck, but sometimes you get more mileage out of a synergistic sideboard card that helps a medium matchup a lot than out of a nonsynergistic sideboard card that helps a bad matchup less.)

  7. #27
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Good thoughts. I think I might actually mainboard a Cage, regardless of which mana-booster I use.

    Meek stone is a good call, it can be Bridge #5. Once again, if it's good I'll jam it regardless of Opal presence or not.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  8. #28

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Updated list looks spicy.

    I agree with Safety on Surgical, being able to snipe opponent's wincons or answers makes it a stronger overall option in the main than other forms of grave hate.

    I guess Opal just doesn't feel as impactful as Dark Rit when it's not coming online t1, and I'm not sure if adding more artifacts (although there are plenty of good candidates) just to make Metalcraft more consistent is worth it when we can just run Rit instead. Deck space is a big issue when there's so much we want to run, so we have to be very selective.

  9. #29
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sella View Post
    Updated list looks spicy.

    I agree with Safety on Surgical, being able to snipe opponent's wincons or answers makes it a stronger overall option in the main than other forms of grave hate.

    I guess Opal just doesn't feel as impactful as Dark Rit when it's not coming online t1, and I'm not sure if adding more artifacts (although there are plenty of good candidates) just to make Metalcraft more consistent is worth it when we can just run Rit instead. Deck space is a big issue when there's so much we want to run, so we have to be very selective.
    I completely agree! I want t1 Ashioks and Bridges, Opal doesn't do that.

    Meekstone was good, I think it's worth a maindeck slot. However, I find Talisman is not great. I think what I really want is another Library and 2 more utility slots. Those could easily become Surgical Extractions, Collective Brutality, or even maindeck Hymn. Surgical seems like the best of the bunch.

    Winning via mill takes a long time, even with Ashiok. Winning with mill against Yorion decks? Functionally impossible. I need ideas for alternative win conditions in the sideboard. Bitterblossom is good, but I don't think it's enough.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  10. #30

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I completely agree! I want t1 Ashioks and Bridges, Opal doesn't do that.

    Meekstone was good, I think it's worth a maindeck slot. However, I find Talisman is not great. I think what I really want is another Library and 2 more utility slots. Those could easily become Surgical Extractions, Collective Brutality, or even maindeck Hymn. Surgical seems like the best of the bunch.

    Winning via mill takes a long time, even with Ashiok. Winning with mill against Yorion decks? Functionally impossible. I need ideas for alternative win conditions in the sideboard. Bitterblossom is good, but I don't think it's enough.
    Winning with mill also makes the deck functionally impossible to play on mtgo due to time constraints.

    Honestly not sure what we could use as an alternative wincon. There's some cute tech (Helix Pinnacle would be funny) but it all takes just as long to win. Its a shame we don't have access to any cute 2-card combos like rip helm. I guess we could splash blue for a labman effect and self-mill against Yorion?

  11. #31

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Re:wincons, I wanted to suggest being a painter/stone deck (grindstone teaming up with the enemy-topdeck-erasing cards), but the problem is that Ancient Stirrings is a brick when painter is in play.

    Unrelated edit: In a non-budget version, you could find some place for Tabernacle. As with all my other suggestions, Ancient Stirrings multiplies the number of virtual copies by 5 if you include it as a singleton (main or SB), and it complements bridge and meekstone — those artifacts punish opponents for going tall, whereas Tabernacle punishes them for going wide. You could try proxying it just to see what, if anything, it does for the deck. It’s at cross-purposes with Bitterblossom, so you’d have to weigh that and see if you could think up a new wincon.

    Edit2: I guess I’ll toss Bojuka Bog into the thread since it’s yet another silver bullet that Ancient Stirrings can find, and unlike many decks that run it, this deck is actually black. Hey, if you follow all my suggestions, you’ll have a free win against every graveyard deck ever! :-)

  12. #32
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Non-budget would include Chains of Mephistopheles first I think, but Tabernacle would be good as well.

    Debating more janky tech, possibly Underworld Dreams or Black Vise against Yorion decks. They draw a ton of cards. Vise is going to be dead in quite a few matchups, but against Yorion/4c decks they will almost always be taking damage, especially once the Lantern/mill-rock lock is established.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 06-09-2020 at 06:36 AM.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  13. #33

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Re:wincons, I wanted to suggest being a painter/stone deck (grindstone teaming up with the enemy-topdeck-erasing cards), but the problem is that Ancient Stirrings is a brick when painter is in play.
    I think that Painter/Stone might be worth looking at regardless. The mill does have some synergy and I think its the closest thing we'll find to a win button that we can feasibly run.

  14. #34

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Here’s a stupid idea:
    Cram in a Nihil Spellbomb or two (low deckbuilding cost)
    Replace two Blossoming Marsh with two Nurturing Peatland
    Replace one Bitterblossom with one Reanimate (some deckbuilding cost, but with Thoughtseize and Codex Shredders and Ghoulcaller’s Bell, Reanimate will sometimes be amazing)
    Find room for 1x Thassa’s Oracle (Yes it’s a brick, but you can often self-mill it if you were going to draw it)
    Find room for 1x Doomsday

    This is an “I win” button for the midgame. It’s not that fast and your main game plan needs to be rolling along already, but if it is:
    (A) Cast Doomsday (BBB)
    (B) Crack a Spellbomb or a Peatland to draw Reanimate (BBBB or 2BBB)
    (C) Use an Ashiok to mill yourself, putting Thassa’s Oracle in the bin — or, if possible, mill yourself three times with three Codex/Bell cards;
    (D) Cast Reanimate, win (BBBBB or 2BBBB)

    This isn’t a great combo, but your whole deck is designed to kind of paralyze the opponent and always know what’s in their hand, so the idea is that if it’s a game you were pretty much supposed to win, you now have a five-mana “I win” button. Note that conditions don’t have to be perfect: Say you don’t have a Spellbomb or a peatland, but you know that your opponent’s next draw can’t block the combo. Then you can just Doomsday and win next turn instead of right now.

    There are quite possibly other, more streamlined, ways to turn Doomsday into a win. This is the best I could devise.

    Edit: Wishclaw can either find Doomsday or be the “draw a card” effect after you cast Doomsday. This deck has a lot of unique features that mitigate the fact that the combo is kind of horrible on the face of it. Another unique feature: Sylvan Library helps you avoid drawing Oracle.

    Edit: there might be some way to meld this with painter+stone, possibly only postboard if you want to avoid casting Reanimate and thus foul up grave hate.


    EDIT: Or splash Oko, make everything into Elk, and Elk your own bridges when it’s time to win. Or leave the bridges and let your hand size float up to three during your own combat steps.

    EDIT: Or don’t splash, and cut one bridge and add one Karn TGC. PWs are good at winning through bridge.

  15. #35
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Lots of cool discussion!

    Painter-Stone sounds pretty cool, actually. It opens up some other options as far as disruption goes. There is a small risk of turning off Ancient Stirrings, so it may not be preferable. I'd have to try it.

    The doomsday plan is pretty cool, not sure if it's worth the slots. It appears compact, but currently I only have 3 win conditions. I don't think it would be better to cut those grindy cards (scroll/bitterblossom) and give up percentage points. Its flashy, but I don't really need flashy. I may have to just accept the slow nature of the deck and rely on Wishclaw/Library/Stirrings finding me a Scroll or stack up the millrocks.

    I think what I need to do is establish something in the sideboard x3-4 that can replace Bridge in matchups where it isn't ideal.

    EDIT: Lodestone Golem comes to mind as a decent threat against non-creature combo decks, and has some added value against mid-range/control decks.

    EDIT#2: Cards to test:

    Wall of Blossoms
    Veil of Summer
    Grindstone
    Painter's Servant
    Lodestone Golem
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 06-10-2020 at 12:37 PM.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  16. #36

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    For when you board out Bridge? Assuming you’re on Opals, what about tweaking the manabase and boarding in The Antiquities War? It finds mill rocks / silver bullets and then hits like a ton of bricks. I don’t think they’ll see it coming.

  17. #37
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    That is definitely an option! I was also thinking if I get Opals back in I can afford a blue splash. Oko is numero Uno to test, but Antiquities War sounds intriguing. I am thinking Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas could be really good as well.

    I think Tezzeret is slightly better, because it not only helps find Bridge but the ultimate will win games fast outside of combat (which also supports Bridge.)

    So, if going blue for Tezzeret (and Oko), this is where I would end up:

    -4 Dark Ritual
    -2 Bitterblossom

    +3 Mox Opal
    +1 Lotus Petal
    +1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    +1 Oko, Thief of Crowns
    +2-4 Artifact lands


    Alternatively I could just sneak in Tezzeret as a 1-of and utilize Opals/Lotus Petal instead of Dark Ritual and include a Zagoth Triome. It's about the best fetchable land, even if it enters tapped, for a light blue splash.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  18. #38

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    That makes sense. Either Oko or Tezz could add a strong proactive plan while also being able to play defense or grind. (Oko is a bit better at playing defense and Tezz is a bit better at grinding in a way that supports Plan A of the deck.)

    Maybe the budget precludes this, but if I were building the deck and had no limitations I’d definitely have a Tabernacle somewhere. It’s such a good singleton against many decks when you’re creatureless and also have Ancient Stirrings/Talisman to help find it. In that case, I’d lean toward win conditions that worked with Tabernacle, and Tezz fits that description.

    Another, unrelated, thought is that you’re not using the graveyard at all. My observation is that it’s really powerful to be able to use the graveyard as a resource without being reliant on it (and thus vulnerable to hate). For example, Delver and Snoko have great angles of attack that use the graveyard (Arcanist/delve cards and Uro/Snapcaster), but they don’t just lose to grave hate and instead they’ll win with other things if an opponent overcommits to grave hate. I wonder if there’s some way to get mileage out of the graveyard in this deck, whether it’s with Loam (wastelock / recur fetches to reset top of deck / dredge to reset top of deck / fill hand with milled lands) or Emry or something else.

    Random cards maybe worth considering:
    Spellskite
    Infernal Tutor
    Scheming Symmetry
    Kaheera, the Orphanguard

    Edit: This is probably quite useless, but I find it funny that with Lantern in play and a low-curve deck, you could cast Ad Nauseam for 10–15 cards and always know exactly when you should stop. If only there were any payoff...

    Edit: I’ve also been trying to think about what sets this apart from Modern Lantern, and I’m not sure what does, but maybe that line of thought can lead to good card ideas.

  19. #39
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    These are the reasons it's good in Legacy:

    Wasteland helps lock up games
    Sylvan Library is insane
    Dark Ritual + Ashiok t1 shuts off fetchlands
    Abrupt Decay is better in legacy than modern, easily a card that tips matchups like Delver and Chalice decks.

    This may be a total flop, but so far it's very promising. Tabernacle seems good, maybe I can try Maze of Ith for now, as getting tabernacle isn't realistic.

    The issue I see with adding blue is it's just a super slippery slope, one where the end result is probably a different deck entirely. I can't help but be an advocate for non-blue decks, it's in my blood.

    Edit: I could easily sideboard 4x Dark Depths/Stage. Stirrings finds those as well, and I could have a Crop Rotation package. Because I have grave hate maindeck I can easily transform into a Depths combo deck. Stirrings and Library aren't perfect at getting Depths/Stage, but I can also board Crop Rotation. That's 11-12 cards, a few silver bullets like Karakas, and it could be interesting. I guess the last few slots in the board would be Choke, maybe Hymn to Tourach. It would solve the Burn matchup, lol.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  20. #40

    Re: B.L.A.S.T. (GB Lantern)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post

    Edit: I could easily sideboard 4x Dark Depths/Stage. Stirrings finds those as well, and I could have a Crop Rotation package. Because I have grave hate maindeck I can easily transform into a Depths combo deck. Stirrings and Library aren't perfect at getting Depths/Stage, but I can also board Crop Rotation. That's 11-12 cards, a few silver bullets like Karakas, and it could be interesting. I guess the last few slots in the board would be Choke, maybe Hymn to Tourach. It would solve the Burn matchup, lol.
    Somehow I completely forgot about this, which is sort of ironic since I was actually considering adding Depths/Stage to my lantern list. The issues I had with that was that it was hard to incorporate the package without turning the deck into turbo (or midrange I guess) depths with weird cards and the obvious conflict with Bridge. Siding it in makes a lot more sense though, grinding out g1 and then switching to a combo plan seems fun.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)