Am I vision impaired or are there more KKK robes than the pointy-hat ones? I will agree there are some spooky robed folks in the art but I don't see Klansmen.
I probably shouldn't blast the entirety of Enter the Wu-Tang for the whole neighborhood to hear eithet, but in my own home I can appreciate it without offending bystanders (I have been meaning to see Song of the South for a while, just to see what all the fuss is about. I guess it makes for an interesting historical footnote, "the movie Disney is so ashamed of it will never be released again" or something like that). But the "publicness" of MtG does make this more dicey. Magic isn't a solo activity. I get to make someone sit there as I show them why my pictures of funny wizards are better than theirs. And then you have so many people of different ideologies, views, and lived experiences working on your art.Originally Posted by Fox
I don't want to be the one to make this comparison but I feel like it's gonna happen at some point. Haven't we been here before? Removing certain imagery and iconography from the game because it was deemed offensive.
Mj was never found guilty and there is lots of indication his witchhunt was racial motivated, so be careful.
Cant see anything racist on disruptive student tbh.
Leftist? This is a racial and religious matter, not political spectrum. Or are you assuming that indigenous people cannot be right wing or that right wing people would not normally defend indigenous people?
(the above is wrote in the interest of showing of how far the rabbit's hole these discussions can go, if a company gets to decide that only 'some things' are offensive mostly because of their own preconceptions about who gets offended by what.)
The world clearly has gone insane. I keep waiting to this to turn out to be a practical joke but it seems like Wotc is serious about this. Madness. Most of the bans are just silly but they really opened Pandora's Box with the banning of Cleanse. Before long, the whole color pie will be seen as racist and Wizards will have to apologize for ever including the colors "black" and "white" into the game.
The sad thing is that I am firmly against racism as is almost everyone in the Western World. But I feel like we are not longer aligned in what the end goal should be. I always thought the idea was that race (or sex or sexual orientiation) should just fade into the background and you should judge someone by his character not because he is black / white / whatever. But these days there is a very loud minority that wants to make everything about race and has set up a hierarchy of perputale oppressors and perpetual vicitims which is just the old racial hierarchy turned 180 degress around. I am 100% convinced that nothing good will come from that and that it will only increase tensions between the different races. Just like Wizards's publicity stunt will not make Magic better, it will just make them a target for Twitter activists.
Reread my post.
My username should suffice as a post
Contrast the hoods of the figures in Tempest CoP:B with the other hooded figures in McNeil's work:
McNeil has a very stylized approach to art, and his racist political attitude is well known. That his artwork for CoP:Black has pointed hoods is likely to be purposeful.
I struggle to express my feelings on this issue... Disappointed is probably correct, but even saying that requires context. I'm disappointed that a game I love has so many problematic game pieces. I'm disappointed that game pieces are being censored. I'm disappointed that a clear and easy solution doesn't exist.
Having said that, I'm okay with WotC doing what they feel they need to in order to correct problems from their past and present, even if it means I'm disappointed. I'll get over it.
No. Just no. Sure, if you want to make an informed and articulated point about the relative merits of an anti-racism vs a Humanist approach, do that.
But no, the notion that there even the anti-racist stance is "the old racial hierarchy turn 180 degrees around" is just so far from reality that I hardly even know how to address it. The notion that, historically, some ground have been systematically targeted, excluded, and victimized isn't just some framing of history, it is the historicity of what literally happened. The idea though, that the "real" aim is a 180 is patently absurd. A reduction of privilege isn't a condensation to servitude, please don't be so crass as to foster that notion upon us as a real point of view being proposed by anyone with an informed position.
On another note, they aren't going to ban every card that says White or Black. They aren't going to ban every card that destroys something of a color. Lets try not to descend to absurdist hyperbole just for the sake of stoking some outrage. We don't need to invoke a notion of a "slippery slope" because we have brains that can differentiate things that are actually "over the line" without drawing a formal line. Drop the moral simplicity and you'll find that while the world is less clear, you will likely gain a more robust view of what the world actually is.
The question of Hasbro/Wizards pandering or not, has little to no bearing on if they are taking proper and/or justified action. You can do the right thing for all sorts of "poor" reasons. Still would be the right thing to do.
And full disclosure: I own plenty of these cards, I am perfectly fine with Wizards banning them from Sanctioned play.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
No one seems to have pointed out that the reasons these cards were banned was because Zaiem Beg wrote a blog post calling Wizards for discriminatory hiring practices. Rather than address those hiring practices, Wizards is making a show of wokeness by banning a bunch cards. I wouldn't expect Wizards to address their hiring practices.
Again, maybe they will, maybe they won't. That does not address, in any way, the question of if the banning the cards was, in-itself, justified or proper.
Of course this is PR. What do you think they would do? Fire everyone hired over the last 20 years and rehire with new criteria? Hiring practices will take ages to effect a noticeable outcome, should they sit on their hands the whole time?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Sorry, but treating people as oppressors due to their skin color even though the individual you are talking to might be born decades after the grievances you are referring to is a) racist and b) only going to create more resentment and hate. It is very telling that "woke" people and even some posters here feel the need to say that hatred against white people is just "prejudice" and not as bad as hatred against black people. By your own logic, doesn't that give Black people privilege? Hating people based on their skin color is always wrong and I find it disgusting that the very same people who are always shouting about how anti-racist they are very comfortable with very aggressive statements against white people.
And you might try to drop your own "moral simplicity".
Point out exactly where I said that hatred is excusable, at all. I'll wait.
You fail to grasp the point. The actual anti-racist movement is not "aimed" at "white people" with any sort of hatred at all. If you are anti-racist and hate white people, then you are actually just racist. The point though is that systemic racism and institutionalized racism are actual things. They are historical facts and they still exert effects to this day. To pretend as if these things did not happen or are not still happening is really just ignorance. The aim then is progressive reform that helps to undo the effects these sorts of policies had/still have.
The idea that Wizards saying they'd like you not to use a card literally called "Invoke Prejudice" and literally picturing stylized Klansmen, is not in any possible why I could conceive of it, "racism" or "prejudice" against white people. Nor is it, at all, in any way I could imagine, some way to "turn a racial hierarchy 180 degrees" and grant discriminated groups any real privilege.
Unless you consider that not having casual racism thrown around, not casually referencing divisive, historical images and notions in a children's card game, is a privilege. If you do, well, I can't help you honestly.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I think Wizards personally opened Pandora's Box, because the fact is that black and white in the context of Magic: the Gathering have nothing to do with black and white people. There are cards that can probably be seen as racist in nature because of their artwork, but tying things like this into the color pie where it's happenstance should not be a factor when it comes to banning a card.
Also, on the Old School comment: Old School has a very dedicated group of followers and people that love the history of the game - sharing a common bond, and I'm one of them. And several of the cards that they've banned in actual sanctioned play have a direct impact on Old School in a huge way as they see regular play.
To that end, I'm curious to see how this impacts that format.
I don't know if Wizards actually has discriminatory hiring practices. The way they are banning Cleanse, which doesn't seem any more racist than the color pie in general, wreaks of a guilty conscience to me. Assuming there is some kind of issue, I think if they came out and acknowledged the issue and said that they are planning on doing something about it, that would be some kind of progress. I would imagine its probably true that Magic was designed by white people and has been run by the same group of friends for a long time. They probably like hiring other people who will fit in the with the group, so I could buy that they've probably been hiring other white people for these cushy high paying positions.
Again, this really misses the point. The problem is not references to White or Black, those are just color words. But when you place then within certain contexts, they can plausibly gain racial connotations. The issue is not color. The issue is context.
Statement already issued from EC for US events they run.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Right on, I am in this same spot.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
White and black mana are pretty establised in fantasy settings (just like green, red and blue, to a lesser degree - never heard about yellow mana).
I wouldn't be surprised if they renamed them into "Light" and "Shadow", Tempest block mechanic creatures be damned.
It wasn't 'a lot more chill' for everyone. What you're describing, finding different ways of communicating so people aren't offended, is called progress.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
But that's politicizing the game, and they can't do that. It's a disaster. That's like someone saying the person who owns the only white car in a parking garage full of parked black cars is racist, just because the color of the cars happen to be black and theirs happens to be the only white one - when that clearly wasn't intended - regardless of how said person felt about that. It's the same thing here: How far can you stretch the boundary of what's acceptable vs. unacceptable to a select group of people whose feelings are hurt because they're overly sensitive - to a group of people that are actually and legitimately offended? Who are they catering to and how far will they draw the line?
Injecting racism into the context of Magic because the cards happen to be black and white is wrong, because the intention of the game to begin with had nothing to do with singling out human skin tone on small pieces of cardboard. That being said, some of those cards' art were used as conduits of actual racism, which I agree with should be expelled.
Neither do I. I don't work there and I never will. It would not surprise me, because implicit bias does exist to some degree or other. It is not shocking at all, to me, that people tend to hire people that look like them, because people implicitly link notional "race" to culture.
Again though, that does nothing to answer if banning cards with (what are seen by Wizards) as racist over-tones should or should not be banned.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
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