Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

  1. #1

    R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Been having pretty good results with an R/G Madness list, inspired from those Vintage Survival lists. Check it out:

    R/G Madness

    4 Hollow One
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Vengevine
    4 Flameblade Adept
    4 Street Wraith
    1 Ox of Agonas
    2 Anger
    4 Once Upon a Time
    2 Mountain
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Taiga
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Firestorm
    2 Seasoned Pyromancer
    1 Mountain
    1 Forest

    SB: 3 Pyroblast
    SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 1 Firestorm
    SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
    SB: 4 Force of Vigor
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction

    I could theorycraft for hours about how the list plays better than it looks (and let's be honest it looks like a shitpile) but you'd be better off testing it out imo. The powerlevel is there, t2 kills are not unheard of believe it or not. You can beat up most fair decks and race combo. On the other hand expect pretty tight games, it'll often come down to a couple life points. SB is of course a shitshow, tailor it to your meta, you know the drill... a mistake opponents would make is overboard on gravehate when the deck isn't that dependent on it. So when sideboarding shave the few GY components for specific hate, but don't go overboard either in case they refuse to respect your GY.

    I was overall satisfied but sometimes cards would get stuck in hand, Street Wraith was always awkward to play with (although it's necessary for that Hollow One cost reduction) and red is a terrible color for dealing with random nonsense permanents. So I traded OuaT for Careful Studies, Seasoned Pyromancers for Bazaar Trademages and jammed in 4x Daze for more interaction. Why Daze? Because it's free, both in mana and CA, and you can loot away the island you bounced in a pinch. Here's the list I'm currently playing:

    R/U/g Madness

    4 Hollow One
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Vengevine
    4 Flameblade Adept
    1 Ox of Agonas
    1 Anger
    2 Mountain
    3 Firestorm
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Careful Study
    2 Bazaar Trademage
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Island
    4 Daze
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Fiery Islet
    2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    1 Taiga

    SB: 3 Pyroblast
    SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 1 Firestorm
    SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 3 Turbulent Dreams
    SB: 3 Force of Will

    Slightly less explosive but much more consistent. I know Anger, Squee and Ox look like jokes but they absolutely have a role. You need a critical density of cards you want to pitch and we're basically never hardcasting them, that's all. Again, SB is all over the place, also the manabase is still changing.

    After trying them, I don't play the "discard at random" cards. Burning Inquiry is just CDA and Goblin Lore/Control of the Court is just too slow. You also get burned more often than you'd like by the randomness. I'm still torn between Seasoned Pyromancer and Bazaar Trademage who play a very similar role; we'll see how it goes.

    The deck is incredibly fun and is filled with tricks. If you play Hogaak you'll be familiar with all the sequencing stuff to maximize your damage output. Sometimes you look like you're durdling for one or two turns and then you come out and spit 18 power out of nowhere. You can also grind if need be thanks to the Ox/Squee package.

    Anyway take the time to check out the list, I really think it's got potential.

  2. #2
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Very interesting list. A couple of us have been messing around with Vengevine in another thread if you're interested in seeing what we're cooking up. Its BGrw and forgoes some of the spell enablers for creature based enablers like Putrid Imp and Tireless tribe.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  3. #3
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    i think you may have posted this on reddit a few weeks ago. have you had any success since then?
    -rob

  4. #4

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Very interesting list. A couple of us have been messing around with Vengevine in another thread if you're interested in seeing what we're cooking up. Its BGrw and forgoes some of the spell enablers for creature based enablers like Putrid Imp and Tireless tribe.
    I looked at that thread, it's nice to see other directions this could take. I guess the GB Vengevine lists are closer to the (streamlined) Hogaak archetype? For what it's worth, I tried to include Hogaak in the deck but there are too few green creatures, and if you manage to get Vengevines online you'd rather attack with them anyway.

    In this list I prefer to use "looters as cantrips" so that you aren't so reliant on your opening hands, and more importantly I really want to use LED which is just a broken card. You think the deck is a shitpile until you open LED Ravager Rootwalla Vengevine and suddenly you've put your opponent on a 2-turn clock. Thanks to the looting package this happens often enough to give you a bunch of free wins. In order to best leverage LED you need enough Madness cards, and Ravager fits the bill best after Rootwalla. He's also crucial to refill your hand after you've just put yourself hellbent, and LED lets you play him at instant speed, before untapping (or before declaring blockers).

    i think you may have posted this on reddit a few weeks ago. have you had any success since then?
    Yeah that was me lol. Over time I was frustrated that the deck had few ways of interacting so I turned to blue. I think a black-splashing list that's closer to the GB Vengevine thread could also exist, and it'd probably play a number of Big Game Hunter or Call the Netherworld.

  5. #5
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,771

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    What are your matchups like so far? How are your test results?

    I'm always skeptical of playing "fair" creatures (smaller than 7/7) without FoW, Chalice, or a lot of discard. Can you run any MD interaction other than Daze? The MD Firestorm does look useful.

    I built a RUG Madness Stompy deck in the Bazaar Trademage thread and have tested a lot of games with it this year. It's less explosive than the builds like yours with 1-mana looting but also runs more disruption for other fast decks, instead of just trying to race with luck. I like what the stompy shell adds. Resistors slow down other Legacy decks and protect your threats, while the Stompy lands make it easier to curve out cards like Anje's Ravager, Bazaar Trademage and Ox of Agonas for gas while even hardcasting Hollow One and Vengevine. Putting the looting on bodies makes it a bit easier to enable Vengevine, since the loot already counts as the 1st creature.

    RUG Madness Stompy


    //Resistors: 8
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Thorn of Amethyst

    //Creatures: 26
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Bazaar Trademage
    4 Champion of Wits
    4 Vengevine
    4 Hollow One
    2 Ox of Agonas

    //Spells: 4
    4 Once Upon A Time

    //Lands: 22
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga


    The deck tries to curve out T1 Resistor into T2 Looter, using OUAT to help find that starting Sol Land and Looter. Both Chalice and Thorn are 1-sided.

    The maindeck is just full of redundancy and draw engines on bodies, which gives a lot of gas to outdraw the opponent even through disruption. 14 creatures that draw 2-3 cards and 4 OUAT: a ton of power to churn through cards. This tries to play a grindier game, instead of dumping out a T1 Hollow One or Vengevine (the BG shell seems better for that). I think the advantage of RUG over BG is to have more grind and these slower looters on big bodies (Ravager, Trademage, Ox). Otherwise I think the Putrid Imp shell is more consistent at explosive starts.

    Eternalizing Champion of Wits is a thing that can happen and just provides insane lategame advantage. The main side is not amazing, but it's still Careful Study with a 2/1 body (which triggers Vengevine with a single Rootwalla or Hollow One+1 mana).

    Creatures like Champion, Ravager and Ox can play dual roles: you can either hardcast them to loot, or you can discard them to other looters for value. They're both engines and payoffs.

    I tried testing Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath but UUGG was too awkward to produce.
    Last edited by FTW; 09-20-2020 at 09:46 AM.

  6. #6
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,818

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Hollow One seems akward with LED. If you need LED as your discard outlet, you will just be discarding it. You need to cast both Faithless Looting and cycle Street Wraith on turn 1 to cast it for 0 mana. If you're waiting until turn 2 to cast Faithless Looting or LED, you are slowing yourself down just to support Hollow One.

    I realize Hollow One is great with Vengevine by potentially being a 0cc creature to help trigger them, but I don't think that is going to happen consistently enough in your list. You have to discard/cycle 3+ cards in a turn to make Hollow One cost zero mana, which you don't have a way to do without Looting + Street Wraith.

    With LED and Looting, I wonder if Echo of Eons should be in the deck. It doesn't play nice with Vengevine's sitting in your graveyard, is a non-bo with Ox of Agonas, and you may want to spend the LED mana on Anje's Ravager instead, but it draws a fresh pile of 7 cards for the 3 LED mana. From the new hand, you can now cast Hollow One's for 0 mana, and potentially chain into another LED + stuff.

    I''d definitely be looking at including Lotus Petal and Mox Opal, possibly other free cards like Memnite (maybe even Frogmite), and cards that you can cheat into play after being discarded, like Bloodghast.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  7. #7
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,771

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Once you're playing Lion's Eye Diamond + Echo of Eons, you're making cards like Vengevine and Bloodghast and Ox much worse, and you'd be better off just playing Storm or Emry Stompy.

  8. #8
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,818

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Once you're playing Lion's Eye Diamond + Echo of Eons, you're making cards like Vengevine and Bloodghast and Ox much worse, and you'd be better off just playing Storm or Emry Stompy.
    Not necessarily. Ox definitely won't work and should be cut from a list with Eons, but you can build the deck to be able to trigger Vengevine and Bloodghast first before casting Eons.

    Honestly, I'm getting way off track here, and talking about what is basically a completely different deck. I only brought up Eons because of how powerful it is with LED. Sorry to derail the thread.

    I'll probably just start a new thread for that idea.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  9. #9
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,771

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Yes, you could do it, but making 4/4s and 2/1s is one of the weakest possible things you could do with the Echo + LED combination.

    Other options include:
    - destroy opponent's hand + draw 7 (Narset, Parter of Veils combo in Emry Stompy)
    - win the game this turn (RUG Storm / Song of Storms)
    - make 16 Goblins (Belcher)

    Feel free to try to brew Echo madness, but it just seems like an underpowered waste of those cards.

  10. #10

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    What are your matchups like so far? How are your test results?

    I'm always skeptical of playing "fair" creatures (smaller than 7/7) without FoW, Chalice, or a lot of discard. Can you run any MD interaction other than Daze? The MD Firestorm does look useful.
    I mean, there are plenty of Legacy decks that don't play much discard, FoW or Chalice (though I'll admit that their portion of the meta shrinks by the day thanks to Wizards having a hardon for blue for no apparent reason). D&T, Maverick, Elves, Painter, hell even Dredge and Hogaak just play Therapy and sometimes not even the full playset.

    Hollow One seems akward with LED. If you need LED as your discard outlet, you will just be discarding it. You need to cast both Faithless Looting and cycle Street Wraith on turn 1 to cast it for 0 mana. If you're waiting until turn 2 to cast Faithless Looting or LED, you are slowing yourself down just to support Hollow One.
    In practice it's ok. Usually good sequencing will lead to turn 1 adept, turn 2 looting, cast Hollow one, attack with triggered adept, possibly vengevines, etc. Not a bad start. Yes sometimes you have to discard the Hollow One to LED but if you're cracking a LED you're usually doing broken stuff anyway so you don't care about discarding a card. If it gets stuck in hand don't forget you can cycle it.

    After doing a bunch of testing I'm finding my way back to the pure R/g list. Being even a tad too slow makes us awkward against Delver, combo etc. Also the blue version gets utterly wrecked by Chalice.

    All in all I still think the list has legs, although you have to accept many matchups will be down to a race, and ultimately the luck of the draw which I guess can be frustrating if you're used to playing countermagic and the cantrip cartel.

  11. #11
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,771

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by madnessguy View Post
    I mean, there are plenty of Legacy decks that don't play much discard, FoW or Chalice (though I'll admit that their portion of the meta shrinks by the day thanks to Wizards having a hardon for blue for no apparent reason). D&T, Maverick, Elves, Painter, hell even Dredge and Hogaak just play Therapy and sometimes not even the full playset.
    The first 2 run Thalia + hatebears. The others run combos that can threaten explosive T2 wins.

    Fair aggro is practically dead in Legacy. It's either blue aggro, hatebears, stompy, or aggro/combo. Making vanilla 4/4s isn't really broken enough to play without disruption.

    The BG Vengevine deck plays with Cabal Therapy and other discard, like Hogaak and Dredge. Check out the thread for ideas. It tries to deploy multiple Vengevines/Hollow Ones on turn 1, which gives it a reasonable chance to race other decks. Cabal Therapy and Stain the Mind help control decks it can't race.

    Has your testing so far been goldfishing? Don't see any actions from opponents there. How does it test against opponents?

    Running Chalice & resistors makes the Delver and Combo matchups much better, which is the plan for my Madness Stompy list. You don't have to race if you can just slow them down first. You could also try to race them but then you probably want your 4/4s on turn 1.

  12. #12

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Looks like my list has been picking up pace thanks to the new toys from MH2

  13. #13
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,771

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Yeah, there's been more discussion about it in another thread. The extra madness creatures and lack of graveyard dependence push it over the edge.

    The Jund version looks best because of Kitchen Imp and Putrid Imp with the option for Asylum Visitor.

  14. #14
    Member

    Join Date

    Jun 2010
    Location

    Poland, Wrocław
    Posts

    30

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Whatever you do, you do it wrong. :D

    Look firstly here:

    1.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3tv...annel=ThrabenU
    2.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adTK...annel=ThrabenU


    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Yeah, there's been more discussion about it in another thread. The extra madness creatures and lack of graveyard dependence push it over the edge.

    The Jund version looks best because of Kitchen Imp and Putrid Imp with the option for Asylum Visitor.

  15. #15

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Yeah I'm not clicking video links that lead to hour long streams. How about a plain old decklist and a summary of matchups?

  16. #16

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Jofiel View Post
    More like he got it right a year ago. Those lists are basically the same thing madnessguy posted in the original post of this thread.

    Props to madnessguy. Truly ahead of his time.

    As for the deck, to me the interesting decision is whether to play Burning Inquiry. In my opinion, playing blue for Careful Study and Breakthrough is superior. Random is just annoying.

    After that the question is whether to play Hollow One. The main reason not to play it is because turn 1 looting is awkward with a hollow one unless you can follow that up with more discard the following turn. Street Wraith mitigates that by allowing it to be played for free off one looting effect.

    I'd say if you want to go with Burning Inquiry then cut Hollow One and Street Wraith for Kitchen Imps and other things that don't mind being discarded.

    I also wonder whether its worth cutting one Anger for one Wonder.

    This is the list I like right now:

    Enablers

    4 faithless looting
    4 careful study
    4 LED
    2 breakthrough
    2 putrid imp

    Madness

    8 walla
    4 ravager

    Graveyard

    2 ox
    4 vengevine
    3 anger

    Hollow One Package

    4 hollow one
    4 street wraith

    Lands

    4 tarn
    4 bloodstained
    1 mountain
    1 badlands
    2 volcanic island
    3 cephalid coliseum

  17. #17
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,771

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    More like he got it right a year ago. Those lists are basically the same thing madnessguy posted in the original post of this thread.

    Props to madnessguy. Truly ahead of his time.
    Hanni, Mr Safety, ReAnimator, myself and others developed BGx HollowVine here 2 years ago (when Hollow One was first printed). Check out the other threads.

    Before Hollow One, I've been playing MadVine since 2011ish after the Survival ban. Hanni and many others on TheSource were too. Vengevine madness has been a Legacy deck for a long time. It's not new tech. It just hovered around Tier 2-3 until Blazing Rootwalla pushed it over the edge. Phil (ThrabenU) mentions that in his video. It was one of those long-time Legacy decks that almost came together, just waiting for another piece.

    Edit: And here's a RUG thread from 2018, following the success of Vintage HollowVine
    https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/...UG-Hollow-Vine


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    As for the deck, to me the interesting decision is whether to play Burning Inquiry. In my opinion, playing blue for Careful Study and Breakthrough is superior. Random is just annoying.
    The Jund version has put up much better results than RUG so far. See the MTGO 5-0 dumps and Legacy Challenge results.

    The problem with Careful Study is it can't make T1 Hollow One or T1 Vengevine on its own. Without a 2-card combo it does very little. Think about it. With discard 2, Hollow One still costs 1 mana (so you need to cycle Street Wraith). Study can only discard 1 Rootwalla + Vengevine, which is not enough to make Vengevine either. Discard 3 is much better than discard 2 for explosive turn 1s and races.

    From our past testing, Putrid Imp is much better than blue's Careful Study/Breakthrough. It easily enables both T1 Hollow One and T1 Vengevine. The successful Jund MadVine decks run PImp.

    Burning Inquiry was bad before MH2, but MH2 may have pushed it over the edge. If the deck is built so that most cards want to be discarded, then the random discard is statistically in your favor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    After that the question is whether to play Hollow One. The main reason not to play it is because turn 1 looting is awkward with a hollow one unless you can follow that up with more discard the following turn. Street Wraith mitigates that by allowing it to be played for free off one looting effect.
    Yeah, there are arguably 2 directions to take the deck.
    1) Hollow One with controlled discard like Putrid Imp. That does the best job of enabling Hollow One and controlling which cards you discard and which cards you keep.
    2) All-in version without Hollow One where you are happy to discard anything. Then relying on LED and Burning Inquiry gets better.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-29-2021 at 01:57 PM.

  18. #18

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Good looks on providing the history of the deck and sharing the other thread. Madness was always one of my favorite mechanics dating back to the Wild Mongrel days so I will be sure to check them out.

    I think you're spot on with regards to the two directions (i.e. controlled discard or all-in). Its interesting to see you say Jund is doing better than RUG. That being said, I'm advocating for Grixis, which I have not seen. I think OUAT is crap in this deck so it really comes down to Green = pump Basking Rootwalla, Black = Putrid Imp, Blue = Careful Study and Breakthrough. Easy choice of Blue and Black if you ask me.

    If you are going to go the all-in build, what do you feel about cutting Hollow One for Kitchen Imp, which seems like the fourth best madness creature after the Lizards and Ravager? Would you then cut Putrid Imp? If so what for? Asylum Visitor? Do you try to play Dark Ritual at that point?

    I'm surprised to see you say you dislike Breakthrough. There are so many times in my own testing that Breakthrough X=1 has ended up putting 10+ power on the board e.g. 2 lizards, a Vengevine, and a Hollow One. It also gets you to threshold for Coliseum and Ox faster than any other card. Its the only card that even comes close to what LED does and since it has a draw 4 attached to it, it can even be better than LED in certain situations.

    Flameblade Adept is another card worth trying, especially if playing Breakthrough or in the "controlled discard" builds. It gives a T1 play to mitigate against awkward Hollow One / Looting openings and it can easily attack for ridiculous amounts when you're so frequently dumping your whole hand. It might not be good enough because this deck is trying to do even more unfair things most of the time.

    Lastly, Lotus Petal should be tested, again, especially in lists playing Breakthrough because at that point you are so commonly dumping your whole hand that its better to have a single use mana source as compared to another land in the graveyard.

  19. #19
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,771

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    Some builds with Dark Ritual and Asylum Visitor were explored in those other threads pre-MH2, but I haven't looked at any since MH2. Mr Safety spent more time on those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    I'm surprised to see you say you dislike Breakthrough. There are so many times in my own testing that Breakthrough X=1 has ended up putting 10+ power on the board e.g. 2 lizards, a Vengevine, and a Hollow One. It also gets you to threshold for Coliseum and Ox faster than any other card. Its the only card that even comes close to what LED does and since it has a draw 4 attached to it, it can even be better than LED in certain situations.
    Careful Study is the card I dislike. T1 Careful Study doesn't enable Vengevine or Hollow One on its own. It needs help or forces you into slower play patterns. We were very underwhelmed by Careful Study in past testing.

    I love Breakthrough in LED Dredge. One of my favorite cards. For a deck like this it's super-Burning Inquiry, very explosive at enabling everything. What I doubt is whether it's worth going blue only for Breakthrough (and Cephalid Coliseum makes the mana worse unless you are heavy blue). But it deserves testing. It digs deeper than anything else.

    T1 Breakthrough X=0 is very explosive, but it can't make Hollow Ones and you lose the 2nd land to for Coliseum/Ox.

    T2 Breakthrough X=1 works with everything and can make a big board, but you slow down a turn. By making fatties on turn 2 instead of turn 1, the deck loses its racing advantage in many matchups like combo and tempo. Then you probably need T1 disruption to interact with faster decks or enemy control. T2 Breakthrough walks into more things like Daze and Spell Pierce and Mystical Dispute and REB, while T1s OTP can go under all that. The slower you go the more the opponent can do, so then you need to adjust the rest of the deck to fight that. Slow grind is probably viable but a different direction than what the current decks are doing.

    I think Flameblade Adept also suffers from slowing the deck down a turn. Turn 1 4/xs are so much more explosive than Turn 2. Turn 2 can be raced by fast combo, can walk into Terminus before you deal lethal, can get Thoughtseized or Dazed by opponent, etc. Flameblade, Breakthrough X=1 and Coliseum are playing into a slower Turn 2 build that will probably need to run answers for the opponent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    I think you're spot on with regards to the two directions (i.e. controlled discard or all-in). Its interesting to see you say Jund is doing better than RUG. That being said, I'm advocating for Grixis, which I have not seen. I think OUAT is crap in this deck so it really comes down to Green = pump Basking Rootwalla, Black = Putrid Imp, Blue = Careful Study and Breakthrough. Easy choice of Blue and Black if you ask me.
    I agree Green is probably the easiest cut. Grixis has unexplored potential, yes. You might be onto something there.

    The other option is Mardu. White = Tireless Tribe (Putrid Imp 5-8)

    Putrid Imp can make turn 1 9+ power on the board. It leads to some of the most explosive racing starts. It also has other synergies. It's another body to attack or block. It casts discarded Cabal Therapy to disrupt the opponent for free. You can slowroll and make creatures on the End Step or in multiple waves to fight hate. It can also hold back Anje's Ravager+land to cast on turn 2. One of the biggest perks is that it can be uncounterable with Cavern of Souls. Most of the other discard outlets are counterable (lose to FoW, FoN, Daze, Spell Pierce, Chalice). Lately opponents have been misplaying by not Forcing LED/Inquiry, but when blue players smarten up then this deck hits a serious bump by having enablers countered. Cavern+8 PImps was our old tech around that.

    We used to play this 8PImp build with a rainbow manabase. However that can't play Anger. Anger has shown really good results in these Jund builds. What I just realized is the 5c build could now cut down to Mardu and play Anger within the same shell.

    Lotus Petal has been tested in that build and was very strong. We played it as a 4-of. It should be good in your Grixis build with Breakthrough. Speeding up Breakthrough is big difference.

    OUAT is strong in the 8PImp build. For 0 mana it finds PImps, Cavern, or a Vengevine/Hollow One. It helps the consistency of those explosive turn 1s, while any 1-mana card would be a turn slower. It's much worse in the Grixis plan you want though.

  20. #20

    Re: R(U)/g Madness in 2020

    The hollow-vine thread features lists with lotus petal. Fast mana could enable doubling up on 1-cost enablers on turn 1.

    Does Deep Analysis do something that the deck wants? In the videos there was a bit of counting up cards for threshold and the Ox and, particularly for an all-in build, analysis could provide action from the graveyard on turn 2 or 3.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)