Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: UW Echo Stompy

  1. #1
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    UW Echo Stompy

    This thread originally started out as an Echo Affinity deck, but I morphed it into a UW Stompy variation because it is way more powerful.

    U/W Echo Stompy

    Lands (8)
    4 Seat of Synod
    4 Ancient Den

    Creatures (12)
    4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
    4 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
    4 Monastery Mentor

    Spells (40)
    4 Narset, Parter of Veils
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler
    4 Echo of Eons
    4 Thoughtcast
    2 Urza's Bauble
    2 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Mox Opal
    2 Mox Amber
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond

    Sideboard (15)
    4 Force of Will
    2 Force of Negation
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Dispatch
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ashiok, Dream Render

    Original Post

    So this is a rough idea that just popped into my head while discussing another deck.

    Basically, the idea is to play a bunch of cards that can be put into play for free, use LED to discard and cast Echo for a fresh hand, and then do it all again.

    My initial idea for putting cards into play for free is to build around an Affinity shell, using free artifacts like Lotus Petal, Mox Opal, Memnite, Frogmite, and Myr Enforcer.

    I'd like to make Hollow One work, since it is an artifact creature that can be cast for free and contribute to casting Myr Enforcer for free. It's going to require additional discard outlets besides just LED, but needing additional discard outlets makes sense because of Echo anyway.

    With just LED, Hollow One's in the initial hand aren't going to be castable (and will get discarded after cracking it), but if I draw a new hand with Echo, any Hollow One's in the new hand should be castable, so I feel like it should be able to work.

    Careful Study makes the most sense as an additional discard outlet. My biggest concern is that they only reduce the cost of Hollow One to 1 mana instead of 0, but hopefully that's not an issue. I'll also need more cards that I actively want to discard to make Study worth it.

    I still need more engine cards too. Echo and Study alone aren't going to be enough.

    Emry, Lurker of the Loch can bin cards into the yard, which synergizes well with Echo, and the activated ability works well with Careful Study and LED.

    Thoughtcast seems decent, drawing 2 for a single blue mana once there are 4+ artifacts in play.

    Anyway, here's a rough list to get started...

    Echo Affinity

    Lands (4)
    4 Seat of Synod

    Creatures (20)
    4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
    4 Memnite
    4 Frogmite
    4 Myr Enforcer
    4 Hollow One

    Spells (24)
    4 Thoughtcast
    4 Careful Study
    4 Echo of Eons
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal

    Beyond that, I'm not really sure what to do. I'm at 48 cards so far, so that leaves 12 more, but I still need to include a few more mana sources, some sort of disruption, and some sort of pay off.

    There are a couple of directions I could see taking the deck in from here.

    Basking Rootwalla and Vengevine have a lot of synergy in here. Study and LED enable Rootwalla to be cast for free; Study and Emry bin Vengevine, which can be easily triggered.

    Glimpse of Nature could be a really strong supplemental draw engine, especially with more free creatures like Basking Rootwalla and Ornithopter.

    Paradoxical Outcome probably costs too much mana, but I could see that being another powerful draw engine in here too.

    Maybe the deck should run Brain Freeze, chaining spells and then casting on yourself to bin Echo or Vengevine? With an active Emry, I could get back LED to cast Echo to keep going.

    Maybe Cranial Plating with some flying creatures, like Vault Skirge, Smuggler's Copter, or even Blinkmoth Nexus would be enough? There's also Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek, especially with Gaea's Cradle. Sai, Master Thopterist is an engine by itself for making fliers.

    I really like the interaction between Etherium Sculptor and Springleaf Drum. It would also reduce the cost of Hollow One to 0 with Careful Study. I could even run Conjurer's Bauble, which draws a card immediately vs the slow tripping of the other Bauble's, and the effect could potentially protect cards from Surgical Extraction and graveyard hate.

    Is it just dumb to not be running Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble with Emry?

    I'm sure I need some sort of disruption too. Force of Will and Force of Negation would probably be the best choices, assuming I can get my blue spell count high enough.

    Narset, Parter of Veils would also be sick with Echo, and most likely needs to be included.

    Here are some other cards that might be worth looking into too...

    Wishclaw Talisman
    Infernal Tutor
    Tendrils of Agony
    Auriok Salvagers
    Sevinne's Reclamation
    Faithless Looting
    Day's Undoing
    Transmute Artifact
    Artificer's Intuition
    Tolarian Winds
    Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    Oko, Thief of Crowns
    Dack Fayden
    Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    Wishclaw Talisman
    Infernal Tutor
    Goblin Welder
    Baleful Strix
    Notion Thief
    Riddlesmith
    Arcbound Ravager
    Salvage Titan
    Chromatic Sphere
    Grim Monolith
    Master of Etherium
    Urza, Lord High Artificer
    Walking Ballista
    Spellskite
    Containment Priest
    Meddling Mage
    Phyrexian Revoker
    Cabal Therapy
    Defense Grid
    Karn, the Great Creator
    Transmute Artifact
    Lightning Greaves
    Thousand-Year Elixir
    Mystic Forge
    Paradox Engine
    Fragmentize
    Disenchant
    Echoing Truth
    Brazen Borrower
    Glass Casket
    Ghirapur AEther Grid
    Galvanic Blast
    Whipflare
    Minamo, School at Water's Edge
    Cavern of Souls
    Karakas
    Inventor's Fair
    Ancient Tomb
    Wasteland
    Blast Zone

    Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Hanni; 10-01-2020 at 05:41 AM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  2. #2
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Reserved.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  3. #3
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    I didn't realize Artifacts Blue (Emry Stompy) was already a deck in Legacy, so I feel a bit stupid. Still, I'm trying to take this deck in a slightly different direction, so I'm not going to have this thread deleted yet.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  4. #4

    Re: Echo Affinity

    There's a lot of potential with Transmute Artifact since you're cheating 4,5, and 7 cc artifacts into play. For example, it could fetch a 1-of Paradox Engine for silly interactions with Emre and Urza.

    Probably not what you're thinking of, but Artificer's Intuition and Salvage Titan can have some synergies.

    Something like Breakthrough, Tolarian Winds or Ideas Unbound could fit into the game plan.

  5. #5
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Those are all sweet suggestions, thank you.

    Transmute Artifact seems great. UU should be manageable to cast. Paradox Engine would generate infinite mana with Emry and a Lotus Petal or whatever, but I'd still need to combo that with another card, like Walking Ballista or Brain Freeze. That sounds like too many pieces to reliably make it work, but I'm not really sure. I'm also not sure that I want to run Urza yet, but it would be good with Mystic Forge as well.

    Transmute Artifact could also grab Mystic Forge when I don't have an Emry. I'm not sure if I'll have enough artifacts for Mystic Forge to be worth it, but it could be really strong if I do. I'm still not sure that I want to run Urza yet, but it would be good with him as well.

    Artificer's Intuition is really cool with Emry, but the fact that it can't discard Echo is probably a deal breaker. It's also a bit mana hungry for what it is. I do like that it can tutor for LED, though.

    Salvage Titan is interesting. I can sacrifice weaker artifacts to cast it for free, and then recast those artifacts with Emry. Sacrificing 3 might be a bit too steep, causing some disynergy with Myr Enforcer, but being a free cast would be great for Glimpse, and the 6/4 body is pretty nice.

    I'm not really a fan of Breakthrough in here. I don't want to draw 4 and then discard my entire hand, so I'd have to sink some amount of mana into X for it to work properly, which is going to be too expensive for what it is.

    Tolarian Winds would be good if I also run Basking Rootwalla and Vengevine. If I'm trying to put most of the cards into my hand into play for free, it's not going to do much, but if I have cards in hand that I actually want to discard, it would be great. If it can discard at least 3 cards, it would enable Hollow One for zero mana.

    Ideas Unbound isn't going to work to enable Hollow One, since the discard doesn't happen until end of turn.

    My goal is to basically cast tons of free cards, refill my hand, cast more free cards, refill my hand, rinse and repeat.

    I'm not sure if I should have some sort of way to quickly finish the game, or just plan to close games out by attacking with an army of small to medium sized creatures.

    I'll take what you suggested into consideration as I continue to figure this whole thing out.
    Last edited by Hanni; 09-21-2020 at 04:13 PM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  6. #6
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,435

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Emry/Urza Stompy is already a competitive deck. I mentioned it in the other thread. It's already established as one of the most powerful things to do with LED+Echo.

    Even if you want to go in more affinity-like direction, you probably want 4x Mishra's Bauble. The card is really good with Emry (draw a card per turn), really good at enabling early Metalcraft and Affinity, and just another free card to deploy quickly for value before you reshuffle your hand.

    Myr Enforcer is probably too slow for a vanilla 4/4. Even Affinity doesn't run it anymore. Master of Etherium and Urza are both strong options, depending on what kind of manabase you establish.

    Narset, Parter of Veils is also way too good with this shell to not run, especially if you stay in monoblue. In order to not justify running Narset, you basically have to try to be winning on Turn 2 or be a sligh deck with nothing that costs more than 2 mana. If you're spending 3+ mana on anything (like Master or Urza or Myr Enforcer), it's probably correct to play Narset first.

  7. #7
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Yeah, I saw you say that in the other thread. I was out of the loop with magic for a while, and didn't realize it was a thing. Thanks for the heads up. I went and took a look at mtgtop8 to get caught up on current lists.

    I would like to go in Affinity direction with this one. I'm trying to figure out a way to make this an aggro/combo deck like Elves that can draw through its deck quickly and flood the board with creatures, maybe even with some sort of combo finish if possible.

    Right now I'm still trying to figure some things out, so any more ideas are welcome and appreciated.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  8. #8
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,435

    Re: Echo Affinity

    This could be win-more, but if you're looking for space to innovate in an aggro/combo shell with monoblue and all those free artifacts, do you want to play Erayo, Soratami Ascendant? You would have a very reasonable shot at flipping it (Erayo can be the 3rd spell).

    I tested it a decade ago in some old versions of Affinity. Affinity has a very reasonable chance at flipping it, but it conflicted too much with their business slots and that deck didn't have the power to refuel like you do with both Thoughtcast and Echo.

    Edit: Maybe some number of Myr Enforcer is correct. 4 just seems like a lot of dead cards you can't deploy in a deck that wants to dump its hand quickly.

  9. #9
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Well, I realize Affinity decks stopped running Myr Enforcer a while back, but that was also with a much smaller card pool. It should be much easier these days to get 7 artifacts on the table, especially with engine cards like Echo. Maybe 4 is too many, but I feel like some number of them should definitely be included. I could certainly be wrong though.

    Erayo is certainly an interesting disruption tool that is worth considering. I especially like that it is legendary, which in addition to Emry and Narset, could maybe make Mox Amber a legitimate option for me. There's also Sai, Master Thopterist, Urza, High Lord Artificer, and Karn, the Great Creator for even more critical mass, but I can't really fit all of that.
    Last edited by Hanni; 09-21-2020 at 07:14 PM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  10. #10
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,176

    Re: Echo Affinity

    arcbound ravager is still a threat regardless of approach, i would also highly consider walking ballista for any kind of affinity deck.
    -rob

  11. #11

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Riddlesmith!

  12. #12
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    So I'm actually off of the Affinity plan at the moment. Not that I don't think the deck could be good, because Echo definitely does a lot to improve the archetype, but there's just way more powerful, broken shit that I can be doing vs casting a bunch of free vanilla 2/2's and 4/4's.

    This is the list I've ended up with after tweaking this thing all day/night:

    U/W Echo Stompy

    Lands (12)
    4 Seat of Synod
    4 Ancient Den
    1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
    1 Karakas
    2 Ancient Tomb

    Creatures (12)
    4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
    2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    2 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
    4 Monastery Mentor

    Spells (36)
    4 Narset, Parter of Veils
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler
    4 Thoughtcast
    4 Echo of Eons
    4 Urza's Bauble
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Mox Opal
    2 Mox Amber
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond

    Sideboard (15)
    4 Force of Will
    2 Dispatch
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ashiok, Dream Render

    It might be wrong to not include Defense Grid in the sideboard, but I already have Erayo and Teferi maindeck that perform a similar role. The sideboard is still a work in progress.

    Jace Vryn's may only have 4 Thoughtcast to cast when flipped preboard, but I'm fine with that. Its primary role is as an additional discard outlet for Echo, draw engine with Emry, and a 2cc legendary creature for Mox Amber.

    The deck has tons of card draw and disruption, and Mentor is pretty absurd in this shell. The deck can literally goldfish as fast as turn 2.

    Compared to the Urza + Karn lists, my deck is much lower to the ground, so I don't need as many lands/mana sources. I don't have as many double colorless costs, so I'm only on 2 Tombs, and I also have the additional Mox Amber's that most lists do not have for more colored acceleration. Minamo works on both Emry and Jace.

    Getting double blue for Narset is going to be a bit more difficult for me than the mono blue lists, but I have enough ability to dig through my deck that it shouldn't be a problem, especially with Emry being able to recast Lotus Petal and Mox Opal.

    The list is still untested, but this is definitely the direction I would rather go in with an Echo Stompy deck.
    Last edited by Hanni; 09-24-2020 at 01:44 PM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  13. #13
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    Riddlesmith!
    That's actually extremely good. I'm running Jace, Vryn's Prodigy right now because it's legendary for Mox Amber, but Riddlesmith is undoubtedly the stronger card.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  14. #14
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,435

    Re: Echo Affinity

    The shell looks strong, a good twist on Emry Stompy. Looking forward to hearing results.

    Once you're in white, one card you may want to look into is Auriok Salvagers. It goes infinite with LED and you can Bauble into a Walking Ballista or other wincon.

  15. #15
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    I originally had Auriok in the list, but cut it because I needed the space. I know it only takes an additional 4 Auriok and 1 Walking Ballista from where I am already at, but space is tight.

    I ultimately cut it because it costs 4cc, with an additional 1W investment if LED is in the yard instead of the table, Echo shuffles pieces back into the library that I may need to reassemble, and it works on the same axis as Echo (LED reliance, graveyard reliance) where Mentor gives me a different angle of attack.

    I'm still into adding Auriok Salvagers into another variation of this list, but that version would be cutting 2 Jace, 2 Erayo, 2 Teferi, and 2 Mox Amber for 4 Auriok, 1 Ballista, 2 Ancient Tomb, and 1 City of Traitors or 1 Riddlesmith. So basically, cutting disruption and Mox Amber for more threats and sol lands.

    I like having an additional threat that can dodge some of the hate, namely Plague Engineer (and Abrupt Decay), but I like being lower to the ground with more disruption a bit more right now.

    I'm also going to switch to Cavern of Souls instead of Ancient Tomb in the Mentor only list for now. I only have Mentor, Echo, and Chalice that have double colorless in their cost maindeck, and Cavern would effectively give me even more disruption at the expense of a tiny bump in speed. Ancient Tomb is still really good for powering out turn 1 Chalice or Mentor, so I may switch back again after playtesting.

    I'll try both variations (Mentor only and Auriok) and report back at some point.
    Last edited by Hanni; 09-22-2020 at 11:58 AM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  16. #16
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    After watching some games of regular mono blue Echo Stompy, I'm concerned that my list is too soft to GSZ decks with Collector Ouphe. My deck is super soft to Null Rod effects.

    What makes this even worse is that my answer to problematic artifacts and creatures is Engineered Explosives, which gets shut off too. Dispatch can deal with Collector Ouphe, but if they have a Mother or Giver of Runes, I'm sort of screwed. I can certainly race GSZ with Mentor, but still.

    Maybe I should trim down to 2 Seat of Synod and 2 Ancient Den for 4 Tundra?
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  17. #17
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,435

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Collector Ouphe is a big problem.

    You can fight it on a couple axes, but don't rely on artifact removal like EE cast off artifact lands!

    1) Force of Will on Ouphe or GSZ=2 (just assume it is always Ouphe and counter every Zenith)

    2) Grafdigger's Cage. This shuts off GSZ. Most decks only run the 1 Ouphe and rely on Zenith to find it. It also stops Echo and Emry loops though, so it comes at a steep cost.

    3) Swords to Plowshares. Unconditional removal. You can float W in response to GSZ or Ouphe on the stack, then cast StP to kill it.

    4) Brazen Borrower answers a more diverse range of hate, including Null Rod. There's also Detention Sphere/Banishing Light/Cast Out. But you'll need multiple non-artifact mana sources for that., which affects the Affinity plan. Another reason why Myr Enforcer is bad.

    Flipping Erayo early should also help prevent plays like that. Sometimes you just need to play under Ouphe.

  18. #18
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    I'm fine with relying on Dispatch to kill it; I have more than enough 0cc artifacts to enable it. My concern was with having the mana to cast it. Having to float the mana seems like a legit plan, although I'm typically trying to spend all of my mana every turn.

    Brazen Borrower would be even more difficult to cast, costing 2 mana. That's why I was considering cutting some artifact lands for Tundra.

    I already have Teferi that can bounce stuff... the problem is producing 1UW with a Null Rod effect on the board.

    I think Force of Will is really the best option.

    I'm almost thinking it would be better for me to run Force of Will maindeck somehow, with Force of Negation in the sideboard. Either that, or I cut 4 artifact lands for Tundra... maybe even cut the Cavern of Souls for Seachrome Coast or something?

    I think I like Meddling Mage better than Grafdigger's Cage for pre-emptively shutting down GSZ, since there are a ton of other uses for it, like Abrupt Decay vs Snowko, or just combo matchups in general.

    I'll try and figure some things out and then report back.

    FYI, I'm no longer working on the Affinity version.

    EDIT: How common is actual Null Rod these days?

    I assume Collector Ouphe is pretty common, which makes Dispatch an easy sideboard choice, since it shouldn't be too hard to actively hold open a mana source to be able to cast it, and it also deals with Plague Engineer. Mother or Giver of Runes into Ouphe would be gg though.

    But if Null Rod itself is popular, I'm going to need some sort of Disenchant effect in my sideboard too. I like the versatility of Brazen Borrower or Echoing Truth, but I'm not sure if a bounce effect would be enough.

    I really like Engineered Explosives with Emry as a removal engine, but maybe I need to cut it for a Disenchant effect?

    I keep coming back to Force of Will and Negation as being the best way to deal with all of the problems I might run into...
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  19. #19
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,435

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Artifact decks are popular lately, due to the recent printing of some cards that work very well with artifacts (Emry, Karn, Oko, Hogaak, Urza, Mystic Forge, Wishclaw Talisman), so most SBs have cards to shut down artifacts.

    If it's just Abrade you're lucky.

    Green decks with GSZ all run Ouphe, so you can just never let GSZ=2 ever resolve. If you must let it resolve, it's probably correct to float white even if you don't have Dispatch, so that they fear it. Maybe you can trick them into fetching something else to "dodge" your removal, then getting Ouphe later, because they can't risk losing the only Ouphe.

    Delver decks often run a 1-of Null Rod. They can't tutor for it, but 10 cantrips make it not hard to find either.

  20. #20
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,762

    Re: Echo Affinity

    Maybe Mox Amber is the cut? I like what it does at enabling more broken starts, especially during Echo chains and by providing an additional trigger for Mentor, but they can also be a bit inconsistent.

    If Erayo flips and it's my only legendary, it turns Mox Amber back off. Same thing if Jace flips, although that happens much less frequently. Amber also incentivizes me to run Jace, but Riddlesmith is way more broken than Jace, especially during Echo chains.

    I don't want to run too many total lands, since I can only play one land per turn, so I'm still not sure that going up on lands is actually correct. If instead I decide to cut down on lands (Cavern of Souls) for 4 Chrome Mox, my plan could simply be to race Ouphe in game 1, and then board into Force of Will in games 2 and 3?

    Or I could just go up on lands, cutting the Cavern of Souls and Mox Amber for 4 Tundra, relying on Riddlesmith to discard excess lands for more business.

    I really don't think I want to cut artifact lands, because they are pretty important for enabling Mox Opal and Thoughtcast.

    I'd like to run Force maindeck, but the only cards I'd be willing to cut would be Erayo, Jace/Riddlesmith, Teferi, or Chalice of the Void, and I'm not sure that I want to be cutting any of those.

    Would it be too crazy to cut the 2 Cavern of Souls and 2 Mox Amber for 4 Force of Will? I really need to get some more reps in to figure out how many mana sources this deck needs to function properly.

    I definitely don't think the deck can support both Force of Will and Chrome Mox in the maindeck, at any rate.

    I'll get back to everyone again after I figure some more things out.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)