Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 567891011 LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 204

Thread: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

  1. #161

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    All good points. The minus is pretty bad mainboard but returning a agent or plague engineer could be devastating in the right matchup. Perhaps I should focus the sideboard on creatures so I can keep her in for more matchups.

    The reason I didnít consider Liliana was because untargeted discard is really bad in prison and you need so many lands to function. The deck is hyper focused on card quality over card quantity, between chalice/3ball/no creatures/threats that dodge decay. If you go t1 mox chalice, t2 urborg Lotv you only have 2 cards in hand and they have 7. Trading a curse for plow there seems absolutely aweful. She also doesnít actually kill the opponent.

    I do like Deaths majesty but being castable off of t1 dark ritual and can win the game are the primary considerations. I loved agent for that reason but turning on removal was really bad, and attacking with a x/2 7 times was more difficult to accomplish than protecting her for 5. The list of cards that can do that without turning on removal is quite short: phyrexian arena/treacherous blessing/bitterblossom are all going to kill you.

    Having more t1 things off of dark ritual also helps with the chalice/drit problem. City/chalice/deaths majesty/dark ritual is considerably more awkward to sequence than city/chalice/dark ritual/Last hope. There is no 1 cmc removal for lily other than needle so just play her first and then chalice around daze. Agent was awkward for the opposite reason, you had to choose between ritualling it out or protecting it from plow.

    Once you get to 4 mana and beyond itís a lot harder to justify over helm. It may not seem like it, but 5 mana is a lot easier in this deck than 6 mana so I donít think I would play the general. Between sol lands and my acceleration you usually end up at an odd number of mana (tomb plus swamp plus drit, city plus 2 lands plus mox.)

    With oko gone I feel like my mainboard removal should care more about delver/Thalia/daze than JTMS/karn/mentor. Those cards at least can be handled by pelakka some of the time.

    Maybe Walking Ballista then?

  2. #162

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Ballista is a fine card with sol lands, but is not nearly as impressive t1 off a drit as Liliana the last hope. It also turns on removal. Compared to triumph recurring it with Liliana is great but itís also pretty bad at answering bigger creatures or Ouphe/TNN.

    Murderous rider could be a consideration if people think I need more recurable creatures maindeck (because itís already done itís job by the time it gets plowed). It can only be recurred if it gets countered or discarded though, not removed.

  3. #163

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I agree that Liliana LH is great, I definitely want to keep her.

    I thought about Ballista maybe as a Karn target: today I faced this situation vs 4C Loam where I needed an urgent removal topdeck, and instead drew a Karn and thought that a removal in the toolbox would have been great... like ballista... or meteor golem (lol). But maybe it was just a very unusual situation, as my opponent already got rid of my bridge with decay a few turns earlier.
    It kind of felt like you said the other day, an early beatdown is rough. Made me even consider running Plague Engineer MD, this card is so sick right now. Also noticed that Opposition Agent is crucial against those GreenSun decks !!

    Otherwise the deck felt great, played against D&T too, Torpor Orb just shuts the deck down. Miracle was also an easy win... if they don't have the third Force! ^^ But even then, our topdecks are just too good.

  4. #164

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Ballista or Armix, Filigree Thrasher could be a consideration. Usually though helm or bridge is the primary target if you have mana but are behind on board.

    Every removal spell you put in the sideboard is one less plague engineer you can board in though.

    Agent has made a massive difference vs both crop rotation and gsz decks, really would like at least 3 if possible.

  5. #165

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Went 3-3 in the showcase. Overall deck felt great; lost to misplays on my end mostly. Got to learn to be more patient vs daze decks. I may post a more detailed tr later.

    Only issue with the deck seemed to be losing to the fow, fon, library/uro thing which a few sideboard remorses werenít sufficient to deal with. The meta seems slower and control decks have less pressure on life totals. Perhaps I can add back some castle lochwains for additional grind?

    List for the showcase:

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    8 Snow-covered Swamp
    4 Pelakka Predation // Pelakka Caverns
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    3 Lilianaís Triumph
    2 Liliana, the last hope
    4 Leyline of the Void

    1 Helm of Obedience
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    4 Curse of Misfortunes
    1 Curse of Deathís Hold
    1 Cruel Reality
    1 Curse of Foolís Wisdom
    1 Overwhelming Splendor

    4 Plague Engineer
    3 Opposition Agent
    2 Agonizing Remorse
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Mycrosynth Lattice
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Liquimettal Coating


    Edit: the only other thing was that in leagues I was seeing lots of marit lage so triumph seemed great. In the showcase there was lots of control and brutality may have been better.
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 03-08-2021 at 11:27 AM.

  6. #166
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,958

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    The Challenge meta is often different than the League meta. People are more likely to play tier 1 blue decks in the Challenge, while Leagues could be full of random combo and brews.

    Maybe you just need to allocate a certain number of "meta slots" in the maindeck. Right now that space is taken by 3 Triumph + 2 Lili. Maybe those should be flex slots and adjusted based on the expected metagame for an event, instead of fixed. Triumph is useful sometimes. Brutality is useful other times.

  7. #167

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    For sure. IMO there are 50 core cards. You need 8 sol lands 8 fast mana to be fast enough. 10 untapped black lands to have t1 black mana. 12 core lock pieces of 3ball/chalice/leyline. 12 core win cons (4karn 4 curse 4 targets). The last 10 can be adjusted based on meta, but past experience has shown that at least 2 of the slots need to actually win the game.

    What do you think is the best choices against delver? Or current meta fair blue in general? My non fair blue non depths mus are so good I can make sacrifices there.

    During oko times I was running 2 helm (cheapest additional wincon that beats oko ) 4 eliminate (best oko removal) pelakka (smoothing that kinda answers oko)

    The above list was 2 lily 1 helm (cheapest wincons) 3 triumph (efficient removal that answers lage, which is scariest fast threat to me) 4 pelakka (smoothing)

    Perhaps lily is good enough against fair decks and the meta is so open I should just focus on the most consistent maindeck possible with my flex slots and hedge only in the sideboard for bad matchups.

    In my opinion the best choice of flex slots for flexibility/reliability is 2 brutality (flexible, smooths our hands with too many curse targets) 2 lili last hope (cheapest wincon) 4 pelakka (smooths land screwed hands) 2 castle lochwain (smooths land flooded hands)

    That Configuration was too weak to beat oko in the past but is the best at not having dead cards. Itís ďbetterĒ deck building. Thoughts on the above ideas?

  8. #168

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post

    Maybe you just need to allocate a certain number of "meta slots" in the maindeck. Right now that space is taken by 3 Triumph + 2 Lili. Maybe those should be flex slots and adjusted based on the expected metagame for an event, instead of fixed. Triumph is useful sometimes. Brutality is useful other times.
    Totally agree

  9. #169

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Played a lot of games this weekend against Death Shadow.
    My list was running 3 Eliminate/1 Lili. Eliminate felt good. I also mulliganed a lot of times to have a Chalice/Trini hand, Chalice is still a game winner, especially against Shadow (so is trinisphere, but trickier against wastelands).
    I don't think I want Castel Locthwain, our manabase is fragile (boarded the Vault in), and I used Pelakka a few times to clear the way from countermagic (what a nice card!). Post sideboard, Vault in,3 Engineers and 1 Ballista (which unfortunately, never appeared during games to get a feedback), cut 1 Helm and Chrome Moxes. Still learning to pilot the deck, but those choices seemed ok...

  10. #170
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,958

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by tillcor View Post
    Played a lot of games this weekend against Death Shadow.
    My list was running 3 Eliminate/1 Lili. Eliminate felt good. I also mulliganed a lot of times to have a Chalice/Trini hand, Chalice is still a game winner, especially against Shadow (so is trinisphere, but trickier against wastelands).
    Did you lose after playing T1-T2 Trini and getting immediately Wasted?
    I would think that's a losing play for Shadow. You're trading lands at parity, but they have fewer mana sources than you, and they won't be able to cast any spells either. You should recover to 3 mana before they do, and then you're spending 3 mana to cast 3-drops while they're spending 3 mana to cantrip. That's the kind of game Black prison wants to be playing.
    Last edited by FTW; 03-09-2021 at 10:21 AM.

  11. #171

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Did you lose after playing T1-T2 Trini and getting immediately Wasted?
    I would think that's a losing play for Shadow. You're trading lands at parity, but they have fewer mana sources than you, and they won't be able to cast any spells either. You should recover to 3 mana before they do, and then you're spending 3 mana to cast 3-drops while they're spending 3 mana to Daze.
    True. I remember now, it wasn't against Shadow but against D&T where I faced this strange situation where his mana denial was quit efficient against a fast Trini. But generaly speaking, and against Delver in particular it's obviously great, wasteland or not, you are totaly right.
    Last edited by tillcor; 03-08-2021 at 05:42 PM.

  12. #172

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post

    Perhaps lily is good enough against fair decks and the meta is so open I should just focus on the most consistent maindeck possible with my flex slots and hedge only in the sideboard for bad matchups.
    So you would consider running Lily's Triumph in the sideboard? Cutting 1 Engineer and 1 Agent maybe?

  13. #173

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by tillcor View Post
    So you would consider running Lily's Triumph in the sideboard? Cutting 1 Engineer and 1 Agent maybe?
    I would probably run soul shatter in the sideboard so it can also cover the control and 4cmc karn matchups.

    Vs delver decks getting wastelanded with a 3ball in play is usually fine. Between pelakka and your sol lands you should draw out of it first. Against any Thalia deck itís often worth not casting your lock pieces at all since dark ritual can be so important.

  14. #174
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,958

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by tillcor View Post
    True. I remember now, it wasn't against Shadow but against D&T where I faced this strange situation where his mana denial was quit efficient against a fast Trini. But generaly speaking, and against Delver in particular it's obviously great, wasteland or not, you are totaly right.
    Oh, it was vs D&T. Completely different story. They're also a prison deck. If they have an early Thalia or Vial and Waste you with a Trini on the board, you're done. Reeplcheep, would you board out Trini for that match? Seems good. You don't want to accidentally help their mana denial plan. You want all the Plague Engineers, Lilianas, and Brutality/Triumphs.

  15. #175

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    I always build my sideboard so that I can cut all chalices and 3balls vs every Thalia or non-urza chalice deck.

    Usually +4 PE +vault +spyglass +2 whatever your flex removal was.

    I was talking more in game 1, as soon as you see they are a Thalia or red prison deck you should probably stop casting your chalices or trinispheres. This is because they donít care much about your lock pieces, but dark ritualling into a wincon is devastating for them.

  16. #176

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    With oko gone and my curve lower, is Defense grid a reasonable anti delver card again?

  17. #177

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    With Liliana being a viable wincon now, do you think I can cut the md helms now for more removal?

    Pros:
    lowers curve (helps vs daze/wasteland?)
    improved black count for chrome mox.
    Less vulnerable to bull rod effects and reef/Lavinia.
    Less likely to be wincon flooded, Liliana can be exiled to mox if needed.
    Can cut more easily cut leyline if it or karn -> helm combo is bad.
    Liliana gives opponent more time to come back into game, whereas helm can punk people who donít respect it.

    Cons:
    All sol land hands becomes worse and the deck relies on black mana sources more.
    Less free t1/t2 wins vs resilient non-blue (elves/gaak/lands)
    top decks are poorer, canít win if severely behind on board.
    Sideboard in mus where I want leyline but not karn becomes weird.

  18. #178

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Big creatures were quite weak previously vs coatl/oko/dha double bolt.

    What are peopleís thoughts of Plague Reaver out of the board?
    With less coatls it should be a must fow for control post board and vs rug or walls their goyfs. Combo it gets them dead fast if they slowed down for interaction. A good proactive library answer too. A bit smaller but the downside is less relevant for me than rotting regisaur. Also plays nicely with Liliana TLH. However if their plan is force everything 3 cmc and over anyways, adding another 3 drop doesnít help.

    Alternatively, Woe Strider gums up the board quite nicely vs creatures and is recurable against control. Quite bad vs combo though.

  19. #179

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Hey Reeplcheep, I just saw you playing against Phil. So you're trying both Defense Grid and Plague Reaver? Let us know how it went.
    There's a small tournament at my local shop this weekend, I think I'll play the Curses, I'm expecting a lot of Control/Midrange decks. Also D&T.
    To answer a previous post, I like Helm just for the fact that it is a great topdeck.
    About Plague Reaver, it caught my eye immediately when it came out, it is very appealing as a Dark Ritual threat. But Regisaure didn't make the cut, so I'm note sure. Give us a feedback.
    Talking about creatures, in my previous zombie stompy shell I also tried Graveborn Muse as a body/draw engine.

  20. #180

    Re: Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

    Quote Originally Posted by tillcor View Post
    Hey Reeplcheep, I just saw you playing against Phil. So you're trying both Defense Grid and Plague Reaver? Let us know how it went.
    There's a small tournament at my local shop this weekend, I think I'll play the Curses, I'm expecting a lot of Control/Midrange decks. Also D&T.
    To answer a previous post, I like Helm just for the fact that it is a great topdeck.
    About Plague Reaver, it caught my eye immediately when it came out, it is very appealing as a Dark Ritual threat. But Regisaure didn't make the cut, so I'm note sure. Give us a feedback.
    Talking about creatures, in my previous zombie stompy shell I also tried Graveborn Muse as a body/draw engine.
    Testing this:


    4 Trinisphere
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Curse of Death's Hold
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Cruel Reality
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Overwhelming Splendor
    4 Curse of Misfortunes
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Pelakka Predation
    8 Swamp
    2 Helm of Obedience
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Curse of Fool's Wisdom
    2 Collective Brutality
    2 Defense Grid

    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Helm of Obedience
    4 Plague Engineer
    1 Vault of Whispers
    2 Opposition Agent
    2 Plague Reaver
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass



    In my testing of lili, the ability to always use dark ritual to play a threat before its screwed by a lock piece was good. (like dark ritual chalice lily is much less awkward than dark ritual chalice curse) . But lili herself wasn't good enough compared to helm. Thats why I wanted to try defense grid, since its protection that lets you cast dark ritual as a follow-up play. In the past defense grid screwed up your black count and died to oko, but those are not relevant now so its worth testing again.

    Plague Reaver has been pretty great in my testing for punking people who side out removal, and eating interaction (trophy/fow) that was meant for my curses. The downside of reaver is much more tolerable in a low creature deck, whereas my curve is quite high so the downside on regisaur hurts a lot. In a low to the ground aggro deck it would be the opposite.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)