Yeah, the most powerful draw hate being blue feels counterproductive...Originally Posted by caiomarcos
Well, I would argue Notion Thief is stronger but also blue.
In general I really hate how strong these cards are.
They are neither symmetrical nor do they have a clause to overcome them.
While it is less likely in singleton formats for which these cards are claimed to be designed, they can still create some serious soft locks.
Especially the fetch blocker is seriously neck breaking.
Can't imagine the commander crowd likes playing against these shitters.
At CMC3 I fear that they will be relevant for legacy.
While I in general approve of hosers to xerox, I hate the approach they have taken for hate cards in recent years.
They have gone from symmetrical/hindering to binary, one sided disablers to binary + one sided + advantage for you with the downside of being attached to something that dies to bolt.
The nail in the coffin for this set is still the black lotus at mythic.
Since I don't read reddit or other many other forums, I don't know what the general consensus on it is, but I would be furious to have to spent probably 100€+ for basically each deck.
Apparently, the counsel or whatever circus is in charge of the format knew about it and said it's ok.
Anyone else thinking about cashing out and coming back in 2-3 years after the inevitable crash?
It will be likely instabanned in any reasonable Commander variant, from French 1v1 to kitchen table casual.
Commander Council already gave it their ok, so don't expect anything from them.
Well the clause to overcome it is Abrupt Decay.
That card is criminally underplayed but answers pretty much all of the recent offenders except for Karn and Rogue Elephant.
He did say reasonable.
I really like this StP art.
Red Court - probably too expensive to see Legacy play, even in things like Moon Stompy.
Red Court seems great in Moon Stompy, even as a 1-of. It fills a triple role of card draw, removal and finisher.
The 4-mana slot is already crowded (Karn, Chandra, Confluence) but there's not much better than this available at 5+ mana. Monarch also indirectly synergizes with planeswalkers, because they'll be torn between which to attack.
Edit: Nevermind, I forgot you need a creature to deal combat damage to regain the Monarch token. Shock doesn't cut it, and this would probably take the slot of a creature.
Do the courts make sense in an Enduring Ideal deck? Or are you better off just tossing them in a Replenish/Vaults type shell?
Wording is strange... it deals "2 damage to any target" or "7 to a player or a permanent"...
I really like this StP art.
Red Court - probably too expensive to see Legacy play, even in things like Moon Stompy.
Are they going to print instant and sorceries that can be dealt damage???
Chandra Heart of Fire sees unironic play in red prison, and this is considerably more powerful (if more fragile).
Court of Ire with Ensnaring Bridge sounds like a sure way to victory.
RB turbo fog
Gotta ban Oko first.
The problem is that drawing extra cards with Monarch is useless post-ideal because you can't cast anything.
The other problem is that trying to even play Enduring Ideal in the first place is questionable in legacy when the payoff for e.g. Ad Nauseam or Peer Into the Abyss is just as good and doesn't need to jump through so many hoops. (Although maybe a version that abuses Serra's Sanctum to get 5WW could work, but I still don't think these monarch cards would make sense there).
Then in terms of a Replenish strat, if the goal is to loot/mill the powerful enchantments into the bin you can probably find even more powerful options than these (like Overwhelming Splendor or Decree of Silence or whatever). If the point is just to play some decent enchantments and then Replenish for value if they get countered/removed then the idea is okay, but being this kind of control (or at least big midrange) deck you're going to be on the back foot a lot so it's a risk to play a card to make yourself the monarch only to potentially give it to the opponent. So far I think only the white one is viable for this role because it helps to fight over the board to re-take / retain the monarch but you probably can't play that many copies of it because it still costs 4. That's my 2c anyway.
7 to THAT player or permanentWording is strange... it deals "2 damage to any target" or "7 to a player or a permanent"...
Mono R turbo fog works too.
Add 4x Karn to have more tutors for Bridge.
Total mana denial is another form of fogging, Orim's Chanting their turn, so add Blood Moon and 3sphere.
Then you might as well play some creatures that can attack through Bridge, like 1/1 Goblin token engines.
As for Oko, Bridge + Court is hard for a newly cast Oko to fight. They have one turn before Court deals 7 damage to Oko. If they Elk Bridge, you lose Bridge but they don't have a haste Rogue Elephant to attack and you have a 3/3 chump blocker, so they probably can't steal your Monarch token and you nuke Oko. If they make a Rogue Elephant, it can't attack due to Bridge and then you nuke Oko. As long as there isn't a resolved Oko on board, a new Oko isn't fast enough to disrupt. (If there is already an Oko on board, don't play into it like a chump).
EOT Ice-Fang Coatl is a much bigger threat, due to flash and you drawing 1 card from Monarch (so a 1/1 can attack through Bridge).
Or I can skip bridge, play 3 colors in Black White and Red, and still play Teferi's protection (And slap it on a Panoptic Mirror)
Well, if there's already an Oko on board, the game is likely going south. A large percentage of decks playing Oko also play Coatl and Force of Will and Force of Negation, so I can't see Bridge + Court working out that often. Waiting to cast Bridge until you have Court is going to mean you have to lead with Court and either pass the turn or have eight mana available. If you lead with Court, Coatl can steal the Monarch emblem. Court is fine at shooting stuff down, but it will be tough to take the emblem back in a Red Stompy shell. Something like Battle Screech or Lingering Souls would probably be better with Court.
Why would it be tough? Just play another and hold up a bolt this time
Gavin Verhey's thoughts about white in Commander Legends
Since he was the lead designer, worth a read, even if you agree or not.
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