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Thread: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

  1. #241
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    That green pitch Dryad from Mercadian Masks and Skyshroud Cutter come into mind, too. Not as powerful, but also less all-in.

    The amount of mana you can cheat in reminds me of Vial, although the setup is different and it has no flash/uncounterable component. Still, a pretty sweet card, especially if played T1 with ESG or Mox. And at worst, it digs deeper.

    Edit:

    You're right, that kinda blows.
    You can just be really good at casting Elder Gargaroth by running

    4xVine Dryad
    4xSkyshroud Cutter
    4xNeoform

    Meanwhile Questing Beast is sad.


    More realistically, Snowko could use it as a 1-of for some mana advantage
    If you have Astrolabe, you cast Coatl or Sylvan for free
    If you have Coatl/Sylvan, you cast Oko or Uro for free
    If you have Oko you're already winning so who cares

  2. #242
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    so the enchantment just gives you a free oko, uro, or t3feri on your upkeep? am i missing something here?
    -rob

  3. #243
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    so the enchantment just gives you a free oko, uro, or t3feri on your upkeep? am i missing something here?
    It doesn't count itself. You'd need another CMC 2, then free Okos abound.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  4. #244

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    This sounds bonkers, but it is only 1 turn faster than as foretold,doesn’t have suspend cheats, has to exactly match the cmc, and requires other things in play. I think we will be fine.

  5. #245

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    so the enchantment just gives you a free oko, uro, or t3feri on your upkeep? am i missing something here?
    You still have to cast it.

  6. #246

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    As a build around it seems weaker than green court or as foretold, and as ramp it’s weaker than carpet or hierarch. Maybe enchantress though???

    Edit: this card seems best abused with leylines. Now opalescence decks can etutor for a “serras sanctum” to drop their star field of nix.

  7. #247

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    I think the best place for the enchantment is a deck where you've got tons of permanents of similar but different costs anyways, and you're just trying to get them all out as fast as possible. I'm thinking like Enchantress or Stax in Legacy, or Sagas or ramp in Standard.

    Like, in some kind of Green-based stax shell, that enchantment's actually very strong - say Crucible of Worlds/Ramunap, then next turn you drop a free Smokestack or something. Also looks like it would play VERY nicely with Armageddon in that type of deck. Some kind of Two-Green or Sylvan Plug booster?

    In Standard it'll pair incredibly well with the various Omens and Sagas in Yorion decks.

  8. #248
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    As a build around it seems weaker than green court or as foretold, and as ramp it’s weaker than carpet or hierarch. Maybe enchantress though???

    Edit: this card seems best abused with leylines. Now opalescence decks can etutor for a “serras sanctum” to drop their star field of nix.
    Leylines are actually a good way to abuse it. Good find.

  9. #249
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    i wouldn't be surprised if this card ends up being good. the scry is also quite good.

    i think the easiest ways to cheat with this card

    leylines (not really maindeck), delve (could be fine), affinity (not many effects, but some are good), alternate casting costs.

    normally all of these effects are putting creatures into play. this is putting any perm into play. a free planeswalker is really significant. to me it's really important how much mana you get from this card over 2 or 3 turns. could be very significant vs delver/miracles/snow decks.

    it could also be used in decks that tie up their mana with rishadan port as well.
    -rob

  10. #250

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    ...
    In Standard it'll pair incredibly well with the various Omens and Sagas in Yorion decks.
    I was wondering whether there'd be enough to double up the GG enchantment and Pyre of Heroes (the nerfed birthing pod) in standard.

    I tend to think the card will be too restrictive to work well in legacy. Investing a card and 2 mana to conditionally get 3 or 4 mana worth of free spells isn't compelling. Remember it only casts permanents and only happens once per turn.

    The most plausible scenario for me would be that it powers out 3 drop stuff like Uro that self-sacrifices or Oko which the opponent has to answer, but I'm not sure those cards want acceleration or what 2-drops enable them well. Maybe there's something like like Tallowisp that allows for repeated tutoring that could work.

  11. #251
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    I wonder how it works in tandem in Vial:

    T1: Vial
    T2: In Search of Greatness (vialing in a 1cc creature is optional here)
    T3: ISoG trigger on stack, vial above it, put second counter on Vial, put a 2cc creature into play, ISoG trigger resolves, put 3cc permanent into play.

    That should work, right?

  12. #252

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    I wonder how it works in tandem in Vial:

    T1: Vial
    T2: In Search of Greatness (vialing in a 1cc creature is optional here)
    T3: ISoG trigger on stack, vial above it, put second counter on Vial, put a 2cc creature into play, ISoG trigger resolves, put 3cc permanent into play.

    That should work, right?
    But then what? If In Search of Greatness spends the rest of the game not doing anything because you're not playing 4-drops, then you might as well have played ESG instead. Or, if you are playing 4-drops, how many of them can you play without having tempo problems?

    Vial decks already tend to prefer operating with one vial at a time, and adding In Search of Greatness is going to be a lot like adding a second vial.

  13. #253
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    But then what? If In Search of Greatness spends the rest of the game not doing anything because you're not playing 4-drops, then you might as well have played ESG instead. Or, if you are playing 4-drops, how many of them can you play without having tempo problems?

    Vial decks already tend to prefer operating with one vial at a time, and adding In Search of Greatness is going to be a lot like adding a second vial.
    ISoG can scry, though, while excess Vials sit around like a dud.

  14. #254

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    ISoG can scry, though, while excess Vials sit around like a dud.
    Yeah but you still don't want both at once.

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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    If you're using it in a fair deck, notice it says other permanents, not "nonland", so your lands count. It will cast a free 1 cmc with nothing else on the board. You don't need to combo it with Vial. After that, it basically functions like a Vial, ticking up each turn and cheating you more mana, as long as the permanent survives. You can also hardcast permanents to jump to a higher number.

    To use it unfairly, we need to look at the cmcs that are easy to cheat and what would be worth playing at that mana cost.

    "Free" 4cmcs are common
    Vine Dryad
    Skyshroud Cutter
    Frogmite

    What's worth cheating out at 5 cmc? Titania, Protector of Argoth? Teferi? Some red dragon? Future Sight? Paradox Engine? I can't think of anything great.

    If you go higher, there are cheap 6cmcs using Delve or Affinity
    Hooting Mandrills
    Tasigur, the Golden Fang
    Spire Golem


    These could cheat out a 7cmc like
    Karn Liberated
    Chancellor of the Tangle
    Chancellor of the Annex
    Angel of Despair
    Gaea's Revenge


    Even higher, 7cmcs enablers include
    Allosaurus Rider
    Gurmag Angler
    Myr Enforcer

    There's some real value at 8cmc if you're willing to play a 7 cmc enabler:
    Griselbrand
    Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
    Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    Ashen Rider
    Sphinx of the Steel Wind
    Craterhoof Behemoth

    I probably missed a lot, but I hope this gets the discussion going.

    If you use it to cheat out a creature, you can also run 4x Neoform as another line of attack.

  16. #256

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If you're using it in a fair deck, notice it says other permanents, not "nonland", so your lands count. It will cast a free 1 cmc with nothing else on the board. You don't need to combo it with Vial. After that, it basically functions like a Vial, ticking up each turn and cheating you more mana, as long as the permanent survives. You can also hardcast permanents to jump to a higher number...
    I guess the ability does nothing if you have no other permanents.

    There's also the repeated tutor angle with stomething like Captain Sisay or Fauna Shaman but it's really slow.

  17. #257

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I guess the ability does nothing if you have no other permanents.

    There's also the repeated tutor angle with stomething like Captain Sisay or Fauna Shaman but it's really slow.
    It scry's/

  18. #258

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Imo cycling and delver are the best way to cheat on this. Delve was already covered, but cheating out a delve card is usually pretty low impact. Cycling cards are better cheat targets due having high cmc and higher floors. Lay claim, shark typhoon, and yidaro, wandering monster are all 7cmc options to get from tasigur.



    The best home might be bug snow control: coatl to oko, land to labe, labe to coatl, tasigur/delver whale to shark typhoon.

  19. #259
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.



    Not sure if this could have a home anywhere - 5 hits of creatures to kill the opponent and is GSZ-able.

  20. #260

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    I know they're mostly not legacy playable, but there are some cards in this set that I'm really, really enjoying the design of. Like Path to the World Tree - it's a bad Sylvan Scrying, but then when your ramp deck gets lategame it turns your excess mana into an absolute ton of value, easily the best Domain card since Invasion. I'm definitely making something using it and the Rainbow Bridge split card.

    I also just love the new uncommon land cycle. They finally gave the "sac a land for an effect" thing some legs in every color. The red white one sacrificing to tutor for two cards is just an unbelievable improvement over the standard "make one or two 1/1's" that white usually gets in these. And the blue/red one giving you a mini board wipe is also huge given how quickly some token decks can repeatedly refill the board. The red/green one destroying a land but ALSO giving you a 4/4? Like, these have timing restrictions and costs that make them feel not OP even. Just a really great job design wise, especially compared to their Dominaria counterparts, which were neat conceptually, but very lackluster in execution.

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