You can just be really good at casting Elder Gargaroth by running
4xVine Dryad
4xSkyshroud Cutter
4xNeoform
Meanwhile Questing Beast is sad.
More realistically, Snowko could use it as a 1-of for some mana advantage
If you have Astrolabe, you cast Coatl or Sylvan for free
If you have Coatl/Sylvan, you cast Oko or Uro for free
If you have Oko you're already winning so who cares
so the enchantment just gives you a free oko, uro, or t3feri on your upkeep? am i missing something here?
-rob
This sounds bonkers, but it is only 1 turn faster than as foretold,doesn’t have suspend cheats, has to exactly match the cmc, and requires other things in play. I think we will be fine.
As a build around it seems weaker than green court or as foretold, and as ramp it’s weaker than carpet or hierarch. Maybe enchantress though???
Edit: this card seems best abused with leylines. Now opalescence decks can etutor for a “serras sanctum” to drop their star field of nix.
I think the best place for the enchantment is a deck where you've got tons of permanents of similar but different costs anyways, and you're just trying to get them all out as fast as possible. I'm thinking like Enchantress or Stax in Legacy, or Sagas or ramp in Standard.
Like, in some kind of Green-based stax shell, that enchantment's actually very strong - say Crucible of Worlds/Ramunap, then next turn you drop a free Smokestack or something. Also looks like it would play VERY nicely with Armageddon in that type of deck. Some kind of Two-Green or Sylvan Plug booster?
In Standard it'll pair incredibly well with the various Omens and Sagas in Yorion decks.
i wouldn't be surprised if this card ends up being good. the scry is also quite good.
i think the easiest ways to cheat with this card
leylines (not really maindeck), delve (could be fine), affinity (not many effects, but some are good), alternate casting costs.
normally all of these effects are putting creatures into play. this is putting any perm into play. a free planeswalker is really significant. to me it's really important how much mana you get from this card over 2 or 3 turns. could be very significant vs delver/miracles/snow decks.
it could also be used in decks that tie up their mana with rishadan port as well.
-rob
I was wondering whether there'd be enough to double up the GG enchantment and Pyre of Heroes (the nerfed birthing pod) in standard.
I tend to think the card will be too restrictive to work well in legacy. Investing a card and 2 mana to conditionally get 3 or 4 mana worth of free spells isn't compelling. Remember it only casts permanents and only happens once per turn.
The most plausible scenario for me would be that it powers out 3 drop stuff like Uro that self-sacrifices or Oko which the opponent has to answer, but I'm not sure those cards want acceleration or what 2-drops enable them well. Maybe there's something like like Tallowisp that allows for repeated tutoring that could work.
I wonder how it works in tandem in Vial:
T1: Vial
T2: In Search of Greatness (vialing in a 1cc creature is optional here)
T3: ISoG trigger on stack, vial above it, put second counter on Vial, put a 2cc creature into play, ISoG trigger resolves, put 3cc permanent into play.
That should work, right?
But then what? If In Search of Greatness spends the rest of the game not doing anything because you're not playing 4-drops, then you might as well have played ESG instead. Or, if you are playing 4-drops, how many of them can you play without having tempo problems?
Vial decks already tend to prefer operating with one vial at a time, and adding In Search of Greatness is going to be a lot like adding a second vial.
If you're using it in a fair deck, notice it says other permanents, not "nonland", so your lands count. It will cast a free 1 cmc with nothing else on the board. You don't need to combo it with Vial. After that, it basically functions like a Vial, ticking up each turn and cheating you more mana, as long as the permanent survives. You can also hardcast permanents to jump to a higher number.
To use it unfairly, we need to look at the cmcs that are easy to cheat and what would be worth playing at that mana cost.
"Free" 4cmcs are common
Vine Dryad
Skyshroud Cutter
Frogmite
What's worth cheating out at 5 cmc? Titania, Protector of Argoth? Teferi? Some red dragon? Future Sight? Paradox Engine? I can't think of anything great.
If you go higher, there are cheap 6cmcs using Delve or Affinity
Hooting Mandrills
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spire Golem
These could cheat out a 7cmc like
Karn Liberated
Chancellor of the Tangle
Chancellor of the Annex
Angel of Despair
Gaea's Revenge
Even higher, 7cmcs enablers include
Allosaurus Rider
Gurmag Angler
Myr Enforcer
There's some real value at 8cmc if you're willing to play a 7 cmc enabler:
Griselbrand
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Ashen Rider
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Craterhoof Behemoth
I probably missed a lot, but I hope this gets the discussion going.
If you use it to cheat out a creature, you can also run 4x Neoform as another line of attack.
I guess the ability does nothing if you have no other permanents.
There's also the repeated tutor angle with stomething like Captain Sisay or Fauna Shaman but it's really slow.
Imo cycling and delver are the best way to cheat on this. Delve was already covered, but cheating out a delve card is usually pretty low impact. Cycling cards are better cheat targets due having high cmc and higher floors. Lay claim, shark typhoon, and yidaro, wandering monster are all 7cmc options to get from tasigur.
The best home might be bug snow control: coatl to oko, land to labe, labe to coatl, tasigur/delver whale to shark typhoon.
Not sure if this could have a home anywhere - 5 hits of creatures to kill the opponent and is GSZ-able.
I know they're mostly not legacy playable, but there are some cards in this set that I'm really, really enjoying the design of. Like Path to the World Tree - it's a bad Sylvan Scrying, but then when your ramp deck gets lategame it turns your excess mana into an absolute ton of value, easily the best Domain card since Invasion. I'm definitely making something using it and the Rainbow Bridge split card.
I also just love the new uncommon land cycle. They finally gave the "sac a land for an effect" thing some legs in every color. The red white one sacrificing to tutor for two cards is just an unbelievable improvement over the standard "make one or two 1/1's" that white usually gets in these. And the blue/red one giving you a mini board wipe is also huge given how quickly some token decks can repeatedly refill the board. The red/green one destroying a land but ALSO giving you a 4/4? Like, these have timing restrictions and costs that make them feel not OP even. Just a really great job design wise, especially compared to their Dominaria counterparts, which were neat conceptually, but very lackluster in execution.
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