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Thread: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

  1. #201
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Interesting, so I can attack with my 4/4 trampler, and if my opponent blocks with a 1/1 I can choose to assign 2 damage to the blocker and 2 to the defending player to trigger this instead of defaulting to 1 damage to kill the blocker and 3 to the player.

  2. #202

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Mr dreadstill master, I can see how you could use this as a Soul Shatter with dreadnaught. I donít see how you use it to cheat in the dreadnaught. Can you explain it to a stiflenaught noob?
    If you're ramping with a mana dork you can have the dreadnought come into play as a copy of it, or you could have it come into play as a copy of a creature your opponent controls.

  3. #203

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post


    This seems pretty great in Esper vial. Turn their PW or emrakul into a charming prince, or your anything into a second soulherder.
    This is really good with anything that makes a bunch of tokens on etb. Reddit comments pointed out that master of waves fits the bill nicely. As I believe token copies contribute to devotion, this plus 2 devotion plus master of waves is 4 masters plus 18 elementals for a total of 98 power.

    edit: with 0 devotion it is 10 power over 4 bodies, and 1 devotion it is 38 power over 11 bodies. Thatís still probably good enough to win.

  4. #204

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    If you're ramping with a mana dork you can have the dreadnought come into play as a copy of it, or you could have it come into play as a copy of a creature your opponent controls.
    4 mana and 2 cards for a spark double seems quite bad. I though he saw a way to sac dreadnought to a copy of itself. the only thing I can think of is dreadnought, then this, then coatl, but that is both risky and expensive.

  5. #205

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    4 mana and 2 cards for a spark double seems quite bad. I though he saw a way to sac dreadnought to a copy of itself. the only thing I can think of is dreadnought, then this, then coatl, but that is both risky and expensive.
    ... I need to read cards better. I thought the effect was temporary.

  6. #206
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Mr dreadstill master, I can see how you could use this as a Soul Shatter with dreadnaught. I donít see how you use it to cheat in the dreadnaught. Can you explain it to a stiflenaught noob?
    You aren't cheating in a Dreadnought, you're causing your opponent to sacrifice 12 power worth of creatures because of the Dreadnought trigger. You can even be tricky about it by hiding a Dreadnought under a manifested card from Scroll of Fate, flip it and then get a Terminus-like effect against your opponent. The likelihood of them having more than 12 power is going to be rare. EDIT: I feel like this has value against Emrakul.
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    Interesting, so I can attack with my 4/4 trampler, and if my opponent blocks with a 1/1 I can choose to assign 2 damage to the blocker and 2 to the defending player to trigger this instead of defaulting to 1 damage to kill the blocker and 3 to the player.
    I'm not a judge, but the comp rules appear to support this.
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  8. #208

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You aren't cheating in a Dreadnought, you're causing your opponent to sacrifice 12 power worth of creatures because of the Dreadnought trigger. You can even be tricky about it by hiding a Dreadnought under a manifested card from Scroll of Fate, flip it and then get a Terminus-like effect against your opponent. The likelihood of them having more than 12 power is going to be rare.
    um canít they always choose the sacrifice the dreadnought copy option?

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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    um canít they always choose the sacrifice the dreadnought copy option?
    There isn't a separate copy; the creature enters as a copy, so the creature that enters will have a Dreadnought trigger. EDIT: Yes, this means they can sacrifice what they just played. I was wrong on this account.

    EDIT: also, this applies to PLANESWALKERS. You can now, apparently, make an Oko come in as a copy of any creature with this (regardless of Dreadnought triggers.) Because of this, I'm wary of the goldfish translation. It might be different.
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  10. #210

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    There isn't a separate copy; the creature enters as a copy, so the creature that enters will have a Dreadnought trigger.
    What I meant is that they are never forced to choose the sacrifice 12 power. They can always choose to sacrifice the card that just entered as a copy of dreadnought.

    Edit: I am pretty fluent in French. The translation is correct.

  11. #211
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    What I meant is that they are never forced to choose the sacrifice 12 power. They can always choose to sacrifice the card that just entered as a copy of dreadnought.
    Correct, I missed that. You are spot on. They can just sacrifice their dreadnought copy because it already has 12 power. Good catch!

    EDIT: Unless you also play Vapor Snag in response to the trigger!!!

    Got 'em.
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  12. #212

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You aren't cheating in a Dreadnought, you're causing your opponent to sacrifice 12 power worth of creatures because of the Dreadnought trigger. You can even be tricky about it by hiding a Dreadnought under a manifested card from Scroll of Fate, flip it and then get a Terminus-like effect against your opponent. The likelihood of them having more than 12 power is going to be rare. EDIT: I feel like this has value against Emrakul.
    It won't be terminus, as each creature beyond the first will have something else it can target and you'll be giving your opponent dreadnoughts. (Like, if they entreat the angels for 4, and you target your dreadnought, they'll have 4 12/12s in play and only need to sacrifice two of them)
    The real play here is to cast it on your Eater of Days, or Leveler.

  13. #213
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    If the translation is correct, this isn't just a lowly copy effect. You now have a blue card that can make Oko enter as a creature, with no abilities. This is, to put it mildly, *weird*.
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    It won't be terminus, as each creature beyond the first will have something else it can target and you'll be giving your opponent dreadnoughts. (Like, if they entreat the angels for 4, and you target your dreadnought, they'll have 4 12/12s in play and only need to sacrifice one of them)
    The real play here is to cast it on your Eater of Days, or Leveler.
    They can just sacrifice the creature that enters as a Dreadnought to satisfy the trigger, no additional creatures need to be sacrificed. However, in the case of Entreat the Angels, if they get 4 dreadnoughts, they would have 4 dreadnought triggers. They would have to sacrifice 48 power worth of creatures or lose their dreadnoughts. Each copy would have it's own trigger to sacrifice.
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  15. #215

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Correct, I missed that. You are spot on. They can just sacrifice their dreadnought copy because it already has 12 power. Good catch!

    EDIT: Unless you also play Vapor Snag in response to the trigger!!!

    Got 'em.
    This is confusing, but straight from gatherer: ďIf the dreadnought is no longer on the battlefield, you may still choose either optionĒ and ďif you are unable to sac 12 power, you cannot choose that optionĒ

    This is still a force of despair plus stifle on any creature, token generator, OR planeswalker, including Marit Lage, so maybe thatís good enough.

  16. #216
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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Good catch, I guess Vapor Snag is still a non-bo. Card is confusing AF with Dreadnought, lol.
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  17. #217

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    They can just sacrifice the creature that enters as a Dreadnought to satisfy the trigger, no additional creatures need to be sacrificed. However, in the case of Entreat the Angels, if they get 4 dreadnoughts, they would have 4 dreadnought triggers. They would have to sacrifice 48 power worth of creatures or lose their dreadnoughts. Each copy would have it's own trigger to sacrifice.
    You can always fail to pay every even trigger after using every even token to pay for the odd triggers. Thus it turns every (non storm/replicate) token generator spell into half, rounded down, that many dreadnoughts.

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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    You can always fail to pay every even trigger after using every even token to pay for the odd triggers. Thus it turns every (non storm/replicate) token generator into half, rounded down, that many dreadnoughts.
    Yeah, I think I get it. You can sacrifice one of the copies to satisfy another, then that trigger will fizzle. Weird.
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  19. #219

    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    They can just sacrifice the creature that enters as a Dreadnought to satisfy the trigger, no additional creatures need to be sacrificed. However, in the case of Entreat the Angels, if they get 4 dreadnoughts, they would have 4 dreadnought triggers. They would have to sacrifice 48 power worth of creatures or lose their dreadnoughts. Each copy would have it's own trigger to sacrifice.
    Dreadnought token A chooses to sacrifice dreadnought token B
    Dreadnought token B chooses to sacrifice itself (which is still a legal choice, even if the dreadnought is not on the battlefield)
    From gatherer: If the Dreadnought is no longer on the battlefield when the triggered ability resolves, you may still choose either option
    So you can keep one half (rounded down) of your dreadnought bananza.

    E: I'm behind, sorry.

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    Re: Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Mr dreadstill master, I can see how you could use this as a Soul Shatter with dreadnaught. I donít see how you use it to cheat in the dreadnaught. Can you explain it to a stiflenaught noob?
    So the most important thing is that you can turn an opponent's thing into a suicidal permanent, at instant speed, and you can hide this card in a no-discard zone (face-down exile). So more than just "nice Oko, now sac it" it also checks all the boxes vs Marit Lage.

    When we're not doing this...if an opponent targets a Dreadnought with a kill spell, we cast this spell from exile targeting Dreadnought. Next we tap Scroll of Fate, dump in a copy-Nought, and sac the one that was going to die anyway.

    ^note that opponents play cards worth copying, so like oppo plays Dreadhorde, I target it, then cast a Dreadnought; and now I too have a Dreadhorde and ignored the sac clause.

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  1. Pittplayer