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Thread: Bumbleberry Pie

  1. #61

    Bumbleberry Pie

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    boshnroll finally posted the league

    It went extremely well for a brew, and he enjoyed the games immensely.

    Props: estrids, Yorion, reality acid, and Aminatou

    Slops: spell Pierce, few generic answers to pw, entreat.

    Counterbalance performed way better than any other post top deck but he still wasnt super stoked about it.
    Not sure what the best way to deal with the pyroblast problem is though.
    I watched this league and it was a blast!

    I agree that the blink engine seemed strong and the strongest interaction is resetting teferi to bounce and draw for three turns.

    I think CB is okay in this deck. I noticed a lot of times where he wouldnt sac omen to scry and instead blind flip. I guess he was saving them for Yorion

    I think you have to be kind of active to utilize CB and build you own top via omen, bs, ponder with teferi, sac omen, fetchlands, aminatou. I think you have to settle for that cb is a one sided chalice most of the times.

    Moat seems like a good addition. Iíve like Kaya, Usurper in other esper lists. Itís great vs snoko killing food/elk and exiling uro.

    Edit i like your latest list. Going the value route is probably correct.

  2. #62

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Continued testing. Etutor plus discard continues to be great against unfair decks. Yorion plus cavern has been strong vs blue soup. Got to beat Bryant cook by trading my Stoney silence for 2 of his carpets with aminatou. Kaya did perform quite well vs chalice, delivers, and elks.

    The major problem I had has been lack of lifetotal pressure if Yorion gets plowed and I canít resolve Kaya. Lost several matches to time.

    Elspeth was too slow without fast mana and 2 md Yorion are probably too many.

    Trial plus aminatou has been quite strong and can hold off oko/uro for a while until I can draw into answers. Because of the above three points, perhaps I should try 2 Oath of Liliana instead of Elspeth/yorion? Nonveilable trials for aminatou, and a non plow/pyroblastable/attachable clock. They also chump haste elks nicely. It also makes free value while doing the 3feri/aminatou thing.

  3. #63

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    I inspired more qualified miracles pilots to 3-1 yesterdayís prelim. The list was less janky than mine:

    Continuing with my more janky UBx control build, My favourite card was estrids invocation but with strix it didnít have consistent enough enablers. Planeswalkers were strong but without terminus it was difficult to keep them alive even with all the spot removal and strix. I stumbled upon sarcomancy. It is the closest 1 cmc enchantment to being worth a card on etb, provides a clock, provides people pressure, helps with the hasty elk problem, and turns aminatou/estrids into Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Between that and on thin iceI can have 12-16 enchantments that are 0.5 mana or less overpriced, making estrids invocation consistent at minimal cost. This fixes the find and resolve one of your 8 2 drops problem estrids has, and makes it less vulnerable to removal in response.

    In testing the 2/2s were good blockers vs rabble masters and pressured narset well. On thin ice has downsides vs Marit Lage, Flickerwisp, and flash threats, but being able to reset to higher priority threats (Thassa oracle in scry 2 mode to a lord of Atlantis vs merfolk) was an upside. Detention sphere lets estrids blink astrolabes/yorion/aminatou with a turn delay which is something nice I hadnít realized.

  4. #64

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Here is a list based on the 1 cmc enchantments to consistently enable estrids. Previously the mix of 2 drops and 1 drops made the curve awkward so This list has tried to max on the 1 drops to enable double spelling on t2.

    Witches cottage is an idea because yorion is guaranteed to eat a fow/pyro, whereas we donít have a ton of great instants to recur. Fetchable/basic black is an improvement on cavern in a non strix deck.



    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Marsh Flats
    1 Tundra
    4 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Witches Cottage
    1 Karakas
    2 Snow-Covered Plains
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Snow-Covered Swamp

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 On Thin Ice
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Arcumís Astrolabe
    4 Omen of the Sea
    2 Trial of Ambition
    4 Sarcomancy
    4 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
    4 Estridís Invocation
    2 Court of Grace
    2 Detention Sphere
    1 Oath of Kaya
    4 Force of Will
    3 Force of Negation

    4 Enlightened tutor
    1 Yorion
    1 Nevermore
    1 Damping Sphere
    1 Rest In Peace
    1 Graftdiggerís Cage
    1 Tormodís Crypt
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Pithing needle
    2 Swords to Plowshares


  5. #65

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    With the list above I got one 5-0! I registered it in the challenge sat. But did terribly. Overall though the win rate is up to around 50%.

    A good deal of my wins came from early sarcomancies instead of grinding value. Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy, estrids is actually a faster clock than deliver, delver + ponder, flip x2, bolt. Perhaps I should make the deck a bit closer to a token aggro deck? Aggro instead of durdle makes yorion stronger as flood insurance, improves big mana matchups, and keeps aminatou alive longer. Wrathís are at an all time low and durdle cards like narset and library are much easier to deal with if you are ahead on board.

  6. #66

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    With the list above I got one 5-0! I registered it in the challenge sat. But did terribly. Overall though the win rate is up to around 50%.

    A good deal of my wins came from early sarcomancies instead of grinding value. Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy, estrids is actually a faster clock than deliver, delver + ponder, flip x2, bolt. Perhaps I should make the deck a bit closer to a token aggro deck? Aggro instead of durdle makes yorion stronger as flood insurance, improves big mana matchups, and keeps aminatou alive longer. Wrathís are at an all time low and durdle cards like narset and library are much easier to deal with if you are ahead on board.
    Sounds like you have discovered why I like History of Benalia lol

  7. #67

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    History by itself seemed iffy but if it is on top of additional token aggro stuff it could be good. Not sure how we ever beat elves/goblins other go wide without terminus or flyers.

  8. #68

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    I like where this deck is going. Iím putting it together for some testing in the near future. Sarcomancy was a sick find!

  9. #69

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    I think the best direction to go for a tokens list would be an Esper delverblade shell

    Compared to delver and SFM, token based threats are a bit lower power but we would be quite resilient to removal and have insane catchup mechanics (estrids or yorion as an army in a can). We donít need as many spells as delver so we can curve threat into threat, making up for the lower individual power level.

    Draft aggro list:


    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Swamp
    4 Wasteland

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Sarcomancy
    4 Intangible Virtue
    4 Bitterblossom
    2 Legionís Landing
    4 Daze
    4 History of Benalia
    2 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
    4 Estridís Invocation
    4 Force of Will
    2 Force of Negation

    4 Enlightened tutor
    1 Yorion
    1 Torpor Orb
    1 Damping Sphere
    1 Graftdiggerís Cage
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Pithing needle
    1 Detention Sphere.
    4 Mystical Dispute


    The deck has a lot of 3 drops for a wasteland deck but so does Esper vial which does fine. No catch alls in the 80 card deck, instead we are trying consistency through redundancy. Make a bunch of dudes, kill them. Deck should have an excellent combo my due to having all 4 pillars of combo hate: discard, counters, clock, hate. Not sure about delver or fair non blue matchups but at least on paper this is a lot of things control doesnít like seeing.

  10. #70

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    History by itself seemed iffy but if it is on top of additional token aggro stuff it could be good. Not sure how we ever beat elves/goblins other go wide without terminus or flyers.
    Enlightened tutor for humility/moat

    The most recent list you posted (the esper tokens one) just feels like unsound deckbuilding,
    - mana is super greedy in terms of colour requirements + wasteland
    - so many 3drops when very vulnerable to wasteland
    - so many 3drops when trying to play daze 4x

    Esper Vial also has some of these issues but they have Aether Vial itself to smooth over a lot of these problems

    Then you only have 8 "good" targets for Estrids and all they do is make creatures (History / Sarcomancy) it almost feels like you might as well play Lingering Souls in that slot instead

    Maybe this list has a very good control MU but other matchups seem pretty suspect

  11. #71

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Enlightened tutor for humility/moat

    The most recent list you posted (the esper tokens one) just feels like unsound deckbuilding,
    - mana is super greedy in terms of colour requirements + wasteland
    - so many 3drops when very vulnerable to wasteland
    - so many 3drops when trying to play daze 4x

    Esper Vial also has some of these issues but they have Aether Vial itself to smooth over a lot of these problems

    Then you only have 8 "good" targets for Estrids and all they do is make creatures (History / Sarcomancy) it almost feels like you might as well play Lingering Souls in that slot instead

    Maybe this list has a very good control MU but other matchups seem pretty suspect
    Yah perhaps that idea was too deep and trying to make delverless delver is a bad idea. Itís hard to decide the best way to take the deck. Should it be more aggro with tokens, more prison with etutor and CB, or etb value plus discard?

  12. #72

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    the 5-0 got a shout out

    I am feeling like the deck could use some proactive disruption. Do you think that the Confounding Conundrum plus parallax tide combo could be worth including here (upheaval their lands every turn)
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 02-22-2021 at 03:23 PM.

  13. #73

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Not sure how to progress after labe ban.

    • The miracles version relied on it quite a bit to make mystic sanctuary work.
    • Great blink target for aminatou and yorion.
    • the tokens mana is just bad, scrapped.
    • But haste elks were a massive problem for the deck: aminatou, courts and trial go way up in value.
    • I think sarcomancy in a heavy black build similar to my 5-0 is required. The deck needs a blinkable 1 drop to function and that is the best one in colours.
    • E plagueís stock went way up, could probably mains deck it.
    • An Esper mentor deck just won the challenge so maybe the pyroblast problem isnít as bad as I think.
    • Cards in hand matter again so maybe I can play disinformation campaign again.

  14. #74
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    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Witching Well for 1 drop blink? Good with CB

    Pyroblast is probably not a problem. Fewer Okos and Veils means less need for blue decks to maindeck Pyroblast, as well as no Arcanists to abuse it.

    With Parallax Tide the real combo is to remove/blink it at instant speed in response. Then 0: exile up to 5 target lands.

  15. #75

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Iím really would rather not play a card that isnít worth a full card to blink if possible, and canít be used by estrids... medomaiís prophecy lets you do similar things but card positive instead of negative.

    Another option is mystic remora.

    I am wary of the parallax because it pushes into more ďbad standalone cardsĒ like Teferi Aís time twist or confounding conundrum.

  16. #76

  17. #77
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    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Iím really would rather not play a card that isnít worth a full card to blink if possible, and canít be used by estrids... medomaiís prophecy lets you do similar things but card positive instead of negative.
    There are many options at 2 cmc. I assumed it was a curve thing, where you need some at 1 cmc to replace Astrolabe (also not an enchant). Unfortunately there isn't much at 1. Abundant Growth is off color.

    Remora has always been mediocre in Legacy compared to Vintage. You could try it out, but it's bad tempo.

    Sarcomancy seems risky in a slow control deck with no other zombies. It's questionable whether a 2/2 token is worth a full card in this shell too, though it does help slow down aggressive starts. Any positive results with it?

    Maybe it's better to just play Preordain in that slot. Less synergy with the engines, but it will lead to better curve outs and better overall value for 1 mana.

  18. #78

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    There are many options at 2 cmc. I assumed it was a curve thing, where you need some at 1 cmc to replace Astrolabe (also not an enchant). Unfortunately there isn't much at 1. Abundant Growth is off color.

    Remora has always been mediocre in Legacy compared to Vintage. You could try it out, but it's bad tempo.

    Sarcomancy seems risky in a slow control deck with no other zombies. It's questionable whether a 2/2 token is worth a full card in this shell too, though it does help slow down aggressive starts. Any positive results with it?

    Maybe it's better to just play Preordain in that slot. Less synergy with the engines, but it will lead to better curve outs and better overall value for 1 mana.
    It was a curve thing, but I am not sure 1 mana is worth card disadvantage. Yah without the mana of enchantress I probably can't afford the upkeep on remora.

    It got me a bunch of wins in my 5-0, and pressured planeswalkers and sylvan library well which other cards don't do. The main thing was turning any of my engines into a 3 cmc gideon AoZ was strong.

    I could easily run Tymaret's blessing if I wanted to have more pressure; they have light synergy together and would let me trim court of grace (strong, but not sure i can support WW anymore)

  19. #79

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    I'm very bearish on this archetype now with the astro ban.
    Let us know how the testing goes but I'm not optimistic

  20. #80

    Re: Bumbleberry Pie

    Ran a league and got a 4-1!

    Basically the list above but trimmed aminatou, prophecy, courts, and oath for 4 tymarets blessing plus 2 sevinnes reclamation. Tymarets blessing is not as strong as history in a vacuum but milling sevinnes or cling was #value. More reliably turning off sarcomancy life loss was also strong. Only having white cards t3 or sb means the loss of labe isnít felt as much.

    highlights:
    Zombie beats got there vs Bant miracles with the help of some discard and forcing the terminus.

    beat lands post board through loam plus 2x sphere with just 2 sarcomancy beats. 0 castable spells but he sided out removal and loaning through 2x sphere to find depths was too slow.

    Lost to turbo doomsday with the t2 double disruption nuts, but thatís to be expected in a yorion deck.

    Ground out the most ridiculous bug fit deck with the new 6 cmc cosmos serpent and hydroid Krasis and uro by making 4 zombies a turn. Witches cottage rebuying yorion was also strong there.

    4c loam deck just folded to trial of ambition doing an abyss impression.



    Overall the heavy black version benefits from the bans I think. No labe and oko means less pyroblast and elks. More creature threats that arenít as snowbally means the trial of ambition lock is easier to run (donít absolutely need t1 removal) and stronger. Average toughness has gone down so 2/2s are real bodies now.

    I am wondering if preordain is better than ponder in this deck since we want to open on t1 swamp discard, t2 removal/zombie island most of the time, meaning we donít have t2 ponder fetch as an option.

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