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Thread: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

  1. #1

    How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Fetchlands are banned in Pioneer. In Pioneer, Deathrite Shaman, Dreadhorde Arcanist, Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are all legal and do not cause any issues.

    As such, I think Deathrite Shaman, Dreadhorde Arcanist, Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise as well as Wrenn and Six and Sensei’s Top would all be unbanned if the Fetchlands were banned.

    Brainstorm would see much less play. Xerox shells will suffer a bit. Nic Fit would get a boost due to playing plenty of nonland based shuffle effects, and regaining access to Top and Deathrite. FoW/FoN loses a bit as you can no longer abuse Brainstorm to dig for it or protect it from Thoughtseize/Therapy/Hymn. And the above unbans will definitely inspire some new decks.

    Dual lands themselves would no longer be essential. In a format without fetchlands, alternative lands such as the pathway lands, canopy lands, filter lands, future lands and the magic 2010 duals would all be reasonably playable. This in it self would make the format much less expensive and much more accessible imho.

    So all in all, I think it would be a net positive for Legacy.

    What do you think the impact would be?
    Last edited by Captain Hammer; 03-31-2021 at 01:57 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    I would like it. Fetching and shuffling is annoying and time consuming.
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  3. #3

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Just to be clear: Without fetches duals become more essential, not less.
    And also, most people don't include Prismatic Vista in fetch talk but to hurt the cantrip cartel you have to axe it too.

  4. #4

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Just to be clear: Without fetches duals become more essential, not less.
    I dont believe that is true.

    Fetchlands are must plays because Brainstorm is the absolute best thing to be doing in any controllish or midrange deck and in pretty much every deck that splashes blue.

    The dual lands having basic land types on them make them auto includes in decks playing fetchlands, as those are one of the few nonbasic lands that Fetchlands can grab and combing both gives every fetchland access to three or more colors at once.

    A critical reason that lands like the filter lands and pathway lands are so inferior to duals is that they are not fetchable. That downside goes away in a format without fetchlands.

  5. #5

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I dont believe that is true.

    Fetchlands are must plays because Brainstorm is the absolute best thing to be doing in any controllish or midrange deck and in pretty much every deck that splashes blue.

    The dual lands having basic land types on them make them auto includes in decks playing fetchlands, as those are one of the few nonbasic lands that Fetchlands can grab and combing both gives every fetchland access to three or more colors at once.

    A critical reason that lands like the filter lands and pathway lands are so inferior to duals is that they are not fetchable. That downside goes away in a format without fetchlands.
    I don't think you understand: unless your deck is mono colored there is simply no replacement for a dual. Fetches only could get away with it because they were 5 color lands pretending to be two. A pathway, which taps for only one color of mana is no replacement for a dual. A filter land which makes no color Mana until you play another colored source is not a replacement for a dual. A shock which hurts you is no dual.
    Without fetches you can't play 8 blue fetches and always have your splash colors. Instead you HAVE to play all four copies of the dual

  6. #6
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    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I dont believe that is true.

    Fetchlands are must plays because Brainstorm is the absolute best thing to be doing in any controllish or midrange deck and in pretty much every deck that splashes blue.

    The dual lands having basic land types on them make them auto includes in decks playing fetchlands, as those are one of the few nonbasic lands that Fetchlands can grab and combing both gives every fetchland access to three or more colors at once.

    A critical reason that lands like the filter lands and pathway lands are so inferior to duals is that they are not fetchable. That downside goes away in a format without fetchlands.
    WHat you say is true, but also, duals are the best two color lands you can get. So while before you could play less because you had fetchlands, now you have to play 4, just because these are the best availables....

  7. #7

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Yes duals will still be the best dual lands, but where as before, you cripple your deck if you cant afford to play any dual lands alongside fetchlands, now, you are not at such a large disadvantage playing other dual lands vs an identical deck that plays duals in a format without fetchlands.

  8. #8
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    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    I play D&T so I don't care about fetchlands :)
    I'd like to have this new format, but I don't believe it will be that much more affordable.

  9. #9

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    I would guess the number of duals would stay about the same.
    Since you couldn't fetch them you'd need 4 of each color combination you run however if you would just run duals you're weak to non-basic hate.
    Specific hate like Choke might also become more common.

    In general less colors and splashes seem to be a net positive to me.
    More colors would come with a real opportunity cost since you're less likely to have all the colors you need.

    It would also be a huge nerf for all decks that do storm counts.
    You could no longer play virtually less then 60 cards and play whatever hate/anti-hate you want.

  10. #10

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Im pretty sure my Price of progress will hit like a truck again

  11. #11

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    I play D&T so I don't care about fetchlands :)
    I'd like to have this new format, but I don't believe it will be that much more affordable.
    It would be less affordable. If you think duals are expensive now, imagine when you need 4 volcanics and 4 Seas instead of 2, 3 tops. Demand would cause a price increase. Even Taiga would be 800+ each.

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  12. #12

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    I'm pretty sure this was discussed like 100+ pages ago in the bnr thread. But I think the general summary was:

    people would initially pack more duals/ non basics to fix correctly, but those would get eaten alive by land hate, since mass duals is a lot more vulnerable if you aren't able to fetch for your safety basic to function. You would most likely want a basic in your opener to prevent you from getting btfo. People will learn fairly quickly that they cant just jam a bunch of duals without consequence. Blood moon becomes blood moon again, wasteland can actually shut you down completely cause you cant just fetch for that color again etc.
    so 3/4 color decks become a lot harder to make (4 colors probably impossible, 3 colors as hard as making a 5 color deck now), which is mostly cantrip based decks right now anyways, this is assuming all fetches are banned, they might resort to shitty fetches to get that benefit but it would be a lot worse.
    brainstorm and ponder become much worse, cantrip decks no longer get free mulligans, you can't just grab one card off ponder and fetch the rest away as easily. They would all probably move towards preordain.
    loam becomes worse, but not nearly as much as cantrip decks
    decks that rely on the graveyard as a resource become more challenging because you can no longer count on getting fetches in the yard to delve/escape away

    but the real issue is that the format has had this meta of abusing fetchlands for so long, wotc has power creeped the other archetypes quite heavily to make them remain somewhat relevant. So with cantrips becoming much less effective, while those other decks remaining relatively unchanged the format would shift towards non interactive decks. In essence because they tried buffing everything else to keep up with cantrip decks for the past decade, they would depower the format, but there would be decks that dodge that depowering and they would become the new big bad.

  13. #13

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    I would like it. Fetching and shuffling is annoying and time consuming.
    I've been watching almost all MTGO and playing Arena. So... I just watched a camera match and wanted to scream every time someone picked up their deck to shuffle.
    I'm 100% on board with nofetch-legacy.

  14. #14

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    I would just play needles/spyglass maindeck and name wasteland. Should allow for enough land drops to happen to keep a functional manabase going, provided you make your land drops often enough. It has enough other targets it shouldn't be dead too often, even if the effect is minimal.

    Edit: can also surgical the first one to get rid of the issue, and this can allow you to play your own wastelands and surgical their dual if you like as a viable option, too.

  15. #15
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    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    If you ban fetches, All Spells will run over everybody even harder than it was doing before.

    EDIT: And I'd be priced out of playing half my decks.

    EDIT again: Why do people keep asking this?

    EDIT again again: I'm getting a bit tired of saying basic stuff that people just don't want to hear. London mulligans make A+B and Force decks better, Oko and Wrenn and Six and Gitaxian Probe were fine, wear a mask if you don't want to kill half a million of your own countrymen, etc.
    Last edited by Ronald Deuce; 04-02-2021 at 01:41 AM.
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  16. #16

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Such a format would be incompatible with cards like Wasteland and LED being legal.

  17. #17
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    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    EDIT again: Why do people keep asking this?
    ^^^The real question.^^^
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  18. #18

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Oko and Wrenn and Six and Gitaxian Probe were fine
    You don't get to just sneak this one in, lol.

  19. #19
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    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    ^^^The real question.^^^
    Hypothetical card pools are always better than actual card pools. It's why many people are far more interested in discussing things pre-release (for new cards) or post-ban, since the card pool (and resulting metagame) have uncertain, hypothetical results and outcomes.

    Actuality is far less interesting.
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  20. #20

    Re: How would a ban of Fetchlands in Legacy impact our favorite format?

    Surprised I didn't see this answer.

    Your local legacy scene has 10 players. Cutting fetches / Brainstorm / blue makes 6 of them have shitty decks that are no longer playable. Buying a new deck without them is lolno. The other 4 play lands vs DnT vs blood moon vs all spells for 2-3 hours, realize that's all there is, and then never play again.

    I think it would hard kill all the interactive (read: fun) decks and the rest of the format with it.

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