Mind's Desire Storm

[Daniel Worobec]

Mind's Desire is unbanned. My first thought:

4x Mind's Desire
4x Echo of Eons
4x Thoughtcast
4x Force of Will
2x Brain Freeze
4x Chrome Mox
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Grim Monolith
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Urza's Bauble

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Seat of the Synod
2x City of Traitors
2x Island
2x Otawara, Soaring City


Edit: Third Draft

//Draw
4x Mind's Desire
4x Echo of Eons
4x Paradoxical Outcome

//Protection
4x Force of Will

//Win Condition
2x Brain Freeze

//More Draw
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Urza's Bauble

//Mana
4x Chrome Mox
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Grim Monolith

4x Sea Gate Restoration // Sea Gate, Reborn
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Seat of the Synod
2x City of Traitors

[FTW]

A big mana storm shell makes sense. Mind's Desire works poorly with Ad Nauseam (6 cmc), but great with Peer into the Abyss (which allows you to play 4x Echo of Eons 4x Mind's Desire).

Maybe something like this

//Lands: 13
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp

//Acceleration: 19
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
4 Dark Ritual
3 Grim Monolith

//Card Selection: 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Wishclaw Talisman

//Protection: 6
3 Thoughtseize
3 Defense Grid

//Engines: 9
4 Echo of Eons
4 Mind's Desire
1 Peer into the Abyss

//Wincon: 1
1 Tendrils of Agony

//Sideboard: 15
3 Hope of Ghirapur
2 Brazen Borrower
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Defense Grid
1 Thoughtseize
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm

[Daniel Worobec]

A big mana storm shell makes sense. Mind's Desire works poorly with Ad Nauseam (6 cmc), but great with Peer into the Abyss (which allows you to play 4x Echo of Eons 4x Mind's Desire).

Maybe something like this

//Lands: 13
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp

//Acceleration: 19
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
4 Dark Ritual
3 Grim Monolith

//Card Selection: 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Wishclaw Talisman

//Protection: 6
3 Thoughtseize
3 Defense Grid

//Engines: 9
4 Echo of Eons
4 Mind's Desire
1 Peer into the Abyss

//Wincon: 1
1 Tendrils of Agony

//Sideboard: 15
3 Hope of Ghirapur
2 Brazen Borrower
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Defense Grid
1 Thoughtseize
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm

Looks good. I don't think you really need the Ponders and Brainstorms though.

[Daniel Worobec]

On second thought, add Sea Gate Restoration. Testing so far works pretty good.


4x Mind's Desire
4x Echo of Eons
4x Thoughtcast
4x Force of Will
2x Brain Freeze
4x Chrome Mox
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Grim Monolith
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Urza's Bauble
4x Sea Gate Restoration

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Seat of the Synod
2x City of Traitors

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Invoke calamity means mind's desire costs 5 which means it costs seething song, which means it costs desperate ritual, which means it costs rite of flame, which means it costs 1.

[Hanni]

Invoke calamity means mind's desire costs 5 which means it costs seething song, which means it costs desperate ritual, which means it costs rite of flame, which means it costs 1.

You forgot Simian Spirit Guide, which means it costs 0 mana.

[Hanni]

On second thought, add Sea Gate Restoration. Testing so far works pretty good.


4x Mind's Desire
4x Echo of Eons
4x Thoughtcast
4x Force of Will
2x Brain Freeze
4x Chrome Mox
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Grim Monolith
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Urza's Bauble
4x Sea Gate Restoration

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Seat of the Synod
2x City of Traitors

Wouldn't Defense Grid be better than Force of Will here?

[Daniel Worobec]

Would Defense Grid be better than Force of Will here?

Though still has to be tested more thoroughly, Force of Will has historically been know for both defense and disruption.

Defense Grid would at least go in the side board. It could also go main board.

[serenechaos]

Best option for a straight blue combo shell will probably end up being something in the Outcome Storm family. Outcome already draws a billion and rituals for a billion, just dump that storm count and mana into a Desire and win. The actual kill is going to mostly be a flavor choice, but Monoblue Belcher already has a lot of the right pieces built in and does the PO thing really hard. But


2-4 Mind's Desire
4 Paradoxical Outcome

4 Mox Opal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Grim Monolith
4 Lotus Petal
0 or 4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Ponder
4 Preordain
6-10 free counters

And then Belcher and similar styles would want things like Tezzeret, other lists want lands and Brainstorm, slower lists can cut back on Monoliths and Chromes, and maybe swap in some Mox Diamonds.

Ponder and Preordain are much better for Mind's Desire than Baubles, even in Belcher lists they help sculpt the combo turn immensely, recover from whiffs or disruption, and are useful off Mind's Desire itself. Outcome doesn't really need the 8 extra cheeri0s in that slot, it works fine off just the mana rocks and some utility trinkets. Brainstorm is also good for those that can use it; Belcher variants will just get locked every time.

Echo feels pretty meh without asymmetry, but D7 is still broken so a meh Wheel is still pretty great.

Sea Gate probably belongs in every blue combo deck in existence, I've cast two in a row in Legacy Belcher, playing them for free will probably make my heart give out.

Having just cast Mind's Desire for 16 at monthly Vintage this past weekend, I am so very happy to get to play with my favorite storm card.

[FTW]

Though still has to be tested more thoroughly, Force of Will has historically been know for both defense and disruption.

Defense Grid would at least go in the side board. It could also go main board.

Grid tends to be better than Force in Echo of Eons storm decks.

Grid in hand 1 protects against opponent's new 7 cards too (a Force in hand 1 cannot). Protection is still up after cracking LED, Force is not.

Grid also supports metalcraft and doesn't 2-for-1 you (Force costing a card reduces storm). Grid is proactive and increases Storm count. Holding Force in hand (reactive) limits storm count if opponent doesn't respond. Storm usually prefers proactive 1-for-1 disruption over reactive 2-for-1s.

Proactive: Defense Grid, discard, Orim's chant, Veil of Summer

Reactive: Force, Daze, other blue counters

[PirateKing]

If both of you are on Echo of Eons, isn't Lórien Revealed an easy include?
Cycles early for land, hits good off MD, is live to be shuffled back in after cycling to then draw 3 cards. Pitches to Force if that's your jam; but I agree with FTW I'd prefer Defense Grid if wheeling is a major game plan with the deck.

[FTW]

If both of you are on Echo of Eons, isn't Lórien Revealed an easy include?
Cycles early for land, hits good off MD, is live to be shuffled back in after cycling to then draw 3 cards. Pitches to Force if that's your jam; but I agree with FTW I'd prefer Defense Grid if wheeling is a major game plan with the deck.

In my build, could probably go -2 Ponder -2 land +4 Lorien Revealed.

UR with Burning Wish and Galvanic Relay might also be a good direction for Mind's Desire. It's just harder to hit 6 mana without Dark Ritual, though Tomb + Monolith helps.
Note: Cabal Ritual's BBBBB and Seething Song's RRRRR are not that helpful to accelerate into 4UU.

[Hanni]

Another consideration is taking a page out of mono black Saga Storm and running Urza's Saga. It's a powerful plan B for when the Storm plan is being disrupted, and you run a high artifact count to make it work all the same. It also tutors up LED to enable Echo, as well as utility one-ofs like Haywire Mite to deal with random shit like Chalice on 0, Deafening Silence, etc in postboard games.

[Hanni]

Another interesting option is having Kappa Cannoneer as a sideboard juke for Storm hate. Sideboard stuff hasn't been discussed yet, but that's something mono black Saga Storm doesn't have access to.

A full transformational sideboard plan into 8 Cast is theoretically possible too, although I'm not sure if that would actually be worth it.

[PirateKing]

In my build, could probably go -2 Ponder -2 land +4 Lorien Revealed.

UR with Burning Wish and Galvanic Relay might also be a good direction for Mind's Desire. It's just harder to hit 6 mana without Dark Ritual, though Tomb + Monolith helps.
Note: Cabal Ritual's BBBBB and Seething Song's RRRRR are not that helpful to accelerate into 4UU.

If you're in red, would Manamorphose be too cute to help make the UU? Without all the upside you get out of all the Ruby Storm cards, it might be dead weight too often.

[FTW]

If you're wheeling in a blue Tomb deck, Hullbreacher is also a card. It plays well with Sea Gate Restoration and Mind's Desire (both castable off 7 treasures).

Example:

//Lands: 15
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
4 Sea Gate Restoration
2 Otawara, Soaring City
4 Island

//Artifacts: 22
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
4 Chrome Mox
3 Grim Monolith
3 Defense Grid

//Creatures: 4
4 Hullbreacher

//Spells: 12
2 Intuition
2 Lorien Revealed
4 Echo of Eons
4 Mind's Desire

//Planeswalkers: 7
3 Narset, Parter of Veils
4 Karn, the Great Creator

//Sideboard: 15
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
1 Argentum Masticore
1 Kappa Cannoneer
1 Defense Grid....


Mind's Desire adds another way to freecast Echo or Karn into Aetherflux ("storm" kill)/Lattice (lock)

[Weapon X]

I’m just retooling twiddle storm. That and I want the beacon doomsday kill.

[Hanni]

After watching YouTube all day with people trying out Mind's Desire in various decks, I'm starting to think a more One Ring based artifact mana deck makes a lot of sense. Having permanent based mana let's smaller Mind's Desire's still contribute to snowballing when you aren't able to live the dream and win that turn.

Something like turn 1 Ancient Tomb into Defense Grid, turn 2 Island into Monolith, Key, Opal, Mind's Desire for 4, hitting a Karn or One Ring or Mystic Forge with Paradox Engine or some additional Monolith's or Key's sets the deck up to win next turn when it doesn't just hit another Mind's Desire to keep going and win that turn.

Is that better than the existing Mystic Forge lists? Not really sure. You're still soft to the same hate like Null Rod and Deafening Silence and such, but you're more resilient to Force of Will. If it makes the deck more consistent and/or faster, it definitely seems worth it, and blue gives the deck access to bounce spells vs Null Rod if you run some number of actual Islands and/or Otawara's.

I can still dig the idea of pairing it with LED and Echo, but the fact that LED doesn't help cast Mind's Desire makes LED less desirable in my opinion. These LED lists also run into the same issue with being soft to Null Rod and company, but if you're on Brain Freeze, you're opening yourself up to even more hate like Veil of Summer and Endurance.

I do think Paradoxical Outcome seems like an extremely interesting other direction that the deck can go in, given how absurd that engine is in an 8 Key style deck, but I literally have no idea how that all fits together. I think you probably have to cut Karn or Mystic Forge to fit that in.

My 2 cents, anyway.

[serenechaos]

I do think Paradoxical Outcome seems like an extremely interesting other direction that the deck can go in, given how absurd that engine is in an 8 Key style deck, but I literally have no idea how that all fits together. I think you probably have to cut Karn or Mystic Forge to fit that in.

An Outcome list wouldn't want anything like Mystic Forge. Karn maybe, I've tried him a little in Belcher and he's ok. But it's going to be an aggressive storm deck like ANT, aiming for turn 1 but the advantage of being blue and permanent-based is having Ponders and actual mana for setting up or longer games; plus some number of free counterspells for protection without any deckbuilding effort.

Off the top of my head

4 Paradoxical Outcome
4 Mind's Desire
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Cunning Wish


4 Ponder
4 Preordain

4 Force of Will
4 Pact of Negation
2 Misdirection

4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Grim Monolith

8 Island
4 Sea Gate Restoration

4 empty slots, maybe LEDs but that list can't really use them super effectively. Show and Tell is also hilarious, but a single Emrakul with no tutor won't do great.

Just slam a bunch of mana into Outcome or Mind's Desire. Odds of your turn 1 Mind's Desire hitting another Desire or Outcome will range from 59% (5-6 mana rocks into Mind's Desire) to 77% (4 rocks into Outcome into Mind's Desire, assuming no other storm drawn by Outcome). Eventually your deck will get tired of you chaining free 20 storm MDs into each other and give you Emrakul and/or Cunning Wish.

Edit: For clarity, if you count all live hits from a Turn 1 MD (wincons, cantrips, Sea Gate) the odds above are 96% and 99.8% repsectively

[FTW]

Since you're on Grim Monolith and engines with costs 3U, 4UU and 2U, should the manabase have Ancient Tomb?

Tomb would also help cast Defense Grid, either main or SB.

The problem with running 10 counters (6 weaker ones) is that reactive spells don't build storm count. They protect your combo, but if opponent does nothing, you have "dead" resources in hand and a smaller Mind's Desire. 4 Force is a good idea but 10 counters just means lower storm and more bad hits off Desire. Reactive disruption inhibits storm, proactive disruption builds storm.

You may want to squeeze in Lorien Revealed too. Better hits off Desire, fewer "lands", higher blue count for Mox & Forces.