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Thread: [Deck] Suicide Black

  1. #1841

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    This creature base posted a few posts ago looked quite awesome...

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Vampire Nighthawk
    4 Phyrexian Obliterator
    3 Abyssal Persecutor

    That list was playing Nyxathid instead of Nighthawk, but I think that was just because that list was playing Rite of Consumption as a win condition, and a sac outlet for Persecutor along with Go for the Throat and Cabal Threapy.

  2. #1842

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    This is what I've been playing with. What surprised me so much is just how incredibly consistent the deck plays. It's very rare that I ever have to take mulligans. While it doesn't seem beefy enough to compete with top tier aggro decks, it does feel consistent and versatile to be able to handle any random jank that might come its way.

    2 The Rack
    2 Vampire Nighthawk
    3 Nantuko Shade
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Hymn
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Sarcomancy
    4 Phyrexian Obliterator
    21 Swamp


    1 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Extirpate
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Virtue's Ruin
    2 Perish
    2 Yixlid Jailer
    4 Mindbreak Trap

  3. #1843
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    I would probably cut 2 of The Rack and 2 Vampire Nighthawk for +4 Dark Confidant. He's so good.
    "If you're playing Storm in Legacy, you need to believe that what your deck does is better than what their deck does."

  4. #1844
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Ragu View Post
    This is what I've been playing with. What surprised me so much is just how incredibly consistent the deck plays. It's very rare that I ever have to take mulligans. While it doesn't seem beefy enough to compete with top tier aggro decks, it does feel consistent and versatile to be able to handle any random jank that might come its way.

    2 The Rack
    2 Vampire Nighthawk
    3 Nantuko Shade
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Hymn
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Sarcomancy
    4 Phyrexian Obliterator
    21 Swamp


    1 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Extirpate
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Virtue's Ruin
    2 Perish
    2 Yixlid Jailer
    4 Mindbreak Trap
    You don't really need the rack in this build since you are not going solely discard. And as a two-of, its not enough. Do what he said, go Dark Confidants.

  5. #1845

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    I strongly disagree with the suggestion.

    Dark Confidant is amazing, but the mana intensity doesn't quite feel right enough to support him. Added to the high concentration of spells that already cause me to lose life, his cons seem to outweigh the pros.

    I'll test him a bit, but with serious doubt and trepidation.

    The Rack needs to go. I love my mana curve just the way it is, and I'm looking to replace it with another one drop. Possibly Bloodchief Ascension.

  6. #1846
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Ragu View Post
    I strongly disagree with the suggestion.

    Dark Confidant is amazing, but the mana intensity doesn't quite feel right enough to support him. Added to the high concentration of spells that already cause me to lose life, his cons seem to outweigh the pros.

    I'll test him a bit, but with serious doubt and trepidation.

    The Rack needs to go. I love my mana curve just the way it is, and I'm looking to replace it with another one drop. Possibly Bloodchief Ascension.
    Not playing 4 dark confidant is the biggest mistake you are making. Its not like you are running tombstalkers. If you are worried about life loss, run jitte and vampire nighthawks

  7. #1847
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow View Post
    Not playing 4 dark confidant is the biggest mistake you are making. Its not like you are running tombstalkers. If you are worried about life loss, run jitte and vampire nighthawks
    Yeah, Nighthawk > Hypnotic Specter is the way to go in a Bob deck. I did this in Eva Green too. Nighthawk also helps against opposing aggro.
    "If you're playing Storm in Legacy, you need to believe that what your deck does is better than what their deck does."

  8. #1848

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    New to the deck. One of the most rare thing i've read in the last decklist is the absence of Smallpox. Is this a matte rof other deck? or why is it out?

  9. #1849
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    New to the deck. One of the most rare thing i've read in the last decklist is the absence of Smallpox. Is this a matte rof other deck? or why is it out?
    Well, you could certainly justify Smallpox in the deck if that was more towards your play style but a consenus for the deck is that unless you have a meta prone to S&T/NO/SA/etc. then more targeted removal like Go for the Throat/Smother/Ghastly Demise/Snuff Out/etc. are typically better for us. This is especially true since Obliterator can effectively function for mass sac effects.

    If you are interest particularly in Smallpox, consider looking at The Gate or Pox threads, both of which focus more heavily on on sac effects like Pox/Smallpox/Cabal Therapy/Innocent Blood/etc.

    Forlorn Egoist
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  10. #1850

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Smallpox has been run in Eva Green before, but it's a difficult card to support in any aggressive deck. I think you'd need 2-4 Bitterblossom for it and definitely some Wastelands.

  11. #1851

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Hey everybody! Here's my decklist, the first one for comments:

    // Lands
    4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    3 [TE] Wasteland
    9 [R] Swamp (1)
    1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
    1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    // Creatures
    3 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    2 [FUT] Tombstalker
    4 [10E] Hypnotic Specter
    2 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier

    // Spells
    4 [OD] Innocent Blood
    3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
    4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    4 [TE] Dark Ritual
    2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    4 [M12] Smallpox

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
    SB: 3 [6E] Perish
    SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 2 [M10] Duress

    Should i play Nantuko Shade or Vampire Nighthawk instead of stillmoon cavallier??

  12. #1852
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    Hey everybody! Here's my decklist, the first one for comments:

    // Lands
    4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    3 [TE] Wasteland
    9 [R] Swamp (1)
    1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
    1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    // Creatures
    3 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    2 [FUT] Tombstalker
    4 [10E] Hypnotic Specter
    2 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier

    // Spells
    4 [OD] Innocent Blood
    3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
    4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    4 [TE] Dark Ritual
    2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    4 [M12] Smallpox

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
    SB: 3 [6E] Perish
    SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 2 [M10] Duress

    Should i play Nantuko Shade or Vampire Nighthawk instead of stillmoon cavallier??
    I would take hypnotic and stillmoon out. Hyppie is very week in this meta. The stillmoon is a mana sink.

    you just freed up 6 slots for 4 vampires and maybe 2 phyrexian crusader

  13. #1853

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    I would keep the Hypnotic Specters because you can focus on evasion by doing this:
    -3 Gatekeeper
    -2 Stillmoon Cavalier
    +2 Bitteblossom
    +3 Vampire Nighthawk

    Nighthawk a similar role that Gatekeeper would, except Nighthawk doesn't get clogged down by an enemy 'Goyf or KoTR or Mother of Runes, etc.
    That way, all your threats have flying (minus Bob), which is fantastic with Jitte, and I still like Hypnotic Specter. He pulls countermagic from your opponent, or forces them to use removal on it so you can drop something bigger (Stalker) or with vital utility (Bob).
    Personally, I would cut Perish for Dystopia, cut Engineered Plague because 'folk has tons of Lords these days anyway, and trade out Innocent Blood for either Smother, Dismember, etc.

  14. #1854
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    How have the Obliterator lists been testing?
    "If you're playing Storm in Legacy, you need to believe that what your deck does is better than what their deck does."

  15. #1855

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    This is my new Obliterator Hatred deck. Have had some success with this deck. After trying all kinds of mana acceleration for getting Obliterator out early like Culling the Weak, Cabal Ritual, Lake of the Dead and the like, I finally decided the best card is Phyrexian Tower. Tower cannot be Countered with Misstep or Spell Snare and you can you it multiple times unlike the formentioned. Playing 4 of these in combination with Bloodghast allows me to consistently get out Obliterator by turn 3. It also provides much needed black mana for Hatred and the like. Mesmeric Fiend also is a nice trick with Phyrexian Tower as you can put the effect on the stack and remove a card from the game permanently. Nice to do with they use Stoneforge Mystic to go get Batterskull. Fiend is also nice to use when you are about to go off with Hatred. Can’t tell you how many times I have done just that. 28 creatures, you don’t mind sacrificing one to Tower especially if it is Bloodghast. Also, as written previously, I strongly advise Suicide to play with Cursed Scroll main deck for many reasons. It allows the deck to have late game play and more importantly it is a source of colorless damage to get rid of cards like Mother of Runes, Etched Champion, Grim Lavamancer and you can target Planeswalkers with it which I love. Jace does not stay on the board long vs me. The deck usually wins with Hatred or Obliterator or Lifelink winning the damage race. You usually need one or the other to win. Just thought I would pass this on for anyone wanting to play with Obliterator. I traded in the Zombies for Signal Pest and Vault Skirge because the evasion factor. Evasion proved far superior in this deck. Not to mention you can cast Hatred on Vault Skirge and get your life back if they have no answer for it. Pretty funny actually. Will post some tournament results when I get them.

    Obliterator Hatred

    Sideboard
    4 Go For The Throat
    4 Extirpate
    3 Perish
    2 Umezawa’s Jitte
    1 Spinning Darkness
    1 Contagion

    Main
    13 Swamp
    4 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Wasteland
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cursed Scroll
    3 Hatred
    4 Vault Skirge
    4 Signal Pest
    4 Mesmeric Fiend
    4 Dauthi Horror
    4 Dauthi Slayer
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Phyrexian Obliterator

    Pretty straightforward really. I had tutors in here but realized I didn’t need them. Obliterator isn’t an autowin, but it sure helps when none of your creatures can really block. Also you want to see a decent opening hand. That’s it really.

    Peace.

    Necrowil

  16. #1856
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by necrowil View Post
    This is my new Obliterator Hatred deck. Have had some success with this deck. After trying all kinds of mana acceleration for getting Obliterator out early like Culling the Weak, Cabal Ritual, Lake of the Dead and the like, I finally decided the best card is Phyrexian Tower. Tower cannot be Countered with Misstep or Spell Snare and you can you it multiple times unlike the formentioned. Playing 4 of these in combination with Bloodghast allows me to consistently get out Obliterator by turn 3. It also provides much needed black mana for Hatred and the like. Mesmeric Fiend also is a nice trick with Phyrexian Tower as you can put the effect on the stack and remove a card from the game permanently. Nice to do with they use Stoneforge Mystic to go get Batterskull. Fiend is also nice to use when you are about to go off with Hatred. Can’t tell you how many times I have done just that. 28 creatures, you don’t mind sacrificing one to Tower especially if it is Bloodghast. Also, as written previously, I strongly advise Suicide to play with Cursed Scroll main deck for many reasons. It allows the deck to have late game play and more importantly it is a source of colorless damage to get rid of cards like Mother of Runes, Etched Champion, Grim Lavamancer and you can target Planeswalkers with it which I love. Jace does not stay on the board long vs me. The deck usually wins with Hatred or Obliterator or Lifelink winning the damage race. You usually need one or the other to win. Just thought I would pass this on for anyone wanting to play with Obliterator. I traded in the Zombies for Signal Pest and Vault Skirge because the evasion factor. Evasion proved far superior in this deck. Not to mention you can cast Hatred on Vault Skirge and get your life back if they have no answer for it. Pretty funny actually. Will post some tournament results when I get them.

    Obliterator Hatred

    Sideboard
    4 Go For The Throat
    4 Extirpate
    3 Perish
    2 Umezawa’s Jitte
    1 Spinning Darkness
    1 Contagion

    Main
    13 Swamp
    4 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Wasteland
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cursed Scroll
    3 Hatred
    4 Vault Skirge
    4 Signal Pest
    4 Mesmeric Fiend
    4 Dauthi Horror
    4 Dauthi Slayer
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Phyrexian Obliterator

    Pretty straightforward really. I had tutors in here but realized I didn’t need them. Obliterator isn’t an autowin, but it sure helps when none of your creatures can really block. Also you want to see a decent opening hand. That’s it really.

    Peace.

    Necrowil
    with 8 non colored lands, don't you find it hard to cast obliterator?

  17. #1857
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by necrowil View Post
    This is my new Obliterator Hatred deck. Have had some success with this deck. After trying all kinds of mana acceleration for getting Obliterator out early like Culling the Weak, Cabal Ritual, Lake of the Dead and the like, I finally decided the best card is Phyrexian Tower. Tower cannot be Countered with Misstep or Spell Snare and you can you it multiple times unlike the formentioned. Playing 4 of these in combination with Bloodghast allows me to consistently get out Obliterator by turn 3. It also provides much needed black mana for Hatred and the like. Mesmeric Fiend also is a nice trick with Phyrexian Tower as you can put the effect on the stack and remove a card from the game permanently. Nice to do with they use Stoneforge Mystic to go get Batterskull. Fiend is also nice to use when you are about to go off with Hatred. Can’t tell you how many times I have done just that. 28 creatures, you don’t mind sacrificing one to Tower especially if it is Bloodghast. Also, as written previously, I strongly advise Suicide to play with Cursed Scroll main deck for many reasons. It allows the deck to have late game play and more importantly it is a source of colorless damage to get rid of cards like Mother of Runes, Etched Champion, Grim Lavamancer and you can target Planeswalkers with it which I love. Jace does not stay on the board long vs me. The deck usually wins with Hatred or Obliterator or Lifelink winning the damage race. You usually need one or the other to win. Just thought I would pass this on for anyone wanting to play with Obliterator. I traded in the Zombies for Signal Pest and Vault Skirge because the evasion factor. Evasion proved far superior in this deck. Not to mention you can cast Hatred on Vault Skirge and get your life back if they have no answer for it. Pretty funny actually. Will post some tournament results when I get them.

    Obliterator Hatred

    Sideboard
    4 Go For The Throat
    4 Extirpate
    3 Perish
    2 Umezawa’s Jitte
    1 Spinning Darkness
    1 Contagion

    Main
    13 Swamp
    4 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Wasteland
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cursed Scroll
    3 Hatred
    4 Vault Skirge
    4 Signal Pest
    4 Mesmeric Fiend
    4 Dauthi Horror
    4 Dauthi Slayer
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Phyrexian Obliterator

    Pretty straightforward really. I had tutors in here but realized I didn’t need them. Obliterator isn’t an autowin, but it sure helps when none of your creatures can really block. Also you want to see a decent opening hand. That’s it really.

    Peace.

    Necrowil
    with 8 non colored lands, don't you find it hard to cast obliterator?

  18. #1858

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    sure i do. only in situations where i don't draw a ritual or a phyrexian tower. it happens, but this is the issue with many aggressive decks. you don't want to play a lot of land for fear of drawing too much. you have to play wasteland pretty much and in my opinion, if you want 4 or 5 black mana early you should play phyrexian tower. sure there are games when i don't see either, but in my testing, playing phyrexian tower over a few more swamps is not a bad compromise. you have so many creatures so if you need to sacrifice one (in my case bloodghast or a signal pest) you can. this is black people. sometimes its a good thing to kill your own people. ;)

    just giving you my findings after testing cards like

    culling the weak (misstep is huge so this had to come out, probably most 2nd most effective though)
    cabal ritual (slow and can be stopped by spell snare, not bad late game obviously, but suicide doesn't want a late game)
    lake of the dead (a magnet for wasteland, in addition, the mana you gain early doesn't necessary pay off for the land you sacrifice to get it into play. how many swamps can you afford to sacrifice anyway? i can't think of many games i want to lose two swamps)
    peat bog (actually not bad IF your opponent leaves it alone, but the whole coming into play tapped thing kind of screws you if they have a wasteland sitting on the table. you can't even play it)

    really, those are your options for early BB mana beyond dark ritual. you don't want to play chrome mox as you are already at card disadvantage. phyrexian tower is actually a solid card with a lot of uses you may not expect like your opponent tries to take control of your creature and so on what i mentioned with mesmeric fiend. the fact that you can use it over and over again makes it really shine in my opinion. the above cards seem to have much more limited use.

    a lot of you guys play expensive creatures in your deck like gatekeeper and nighthawk and persecutor. now that i have tested and like phyrexian tower, i would never run a deck with creatures that slow without them. the fact they are legendary is seldom an issue.

    i do know this, just playing 4 dark ritual for obliterator is slow as hell. and if suicide is slow, well in my opinion, it ain't suicide. you can't afford to give your opponent any time at all.

    also, look at it this way. every deck plays mana acceleration. all of them really. mox diamond, birds of paradise, noble hierarch, lotus petal and the list goes on. early mana makes for a strong deck. its that simple. and with black your choices are limited. try it out. i find its quite good. i like them a lot.

  19. #1859

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Mesmeric Fiend is terrible unless your meta has no removal. Just go for Hymn instead. It looks like you had to design the deck around Phyrexian Tower, because a lot of the creatures individually look sub-par. Personally I would rather run Soldevi Adnate or Leaden Myr than attract enemy Wastelands. Soldevi Adnate is a Phyrexian Tower in creature form, and you always just sacrifice itself, and it adds +2 mana like Ritual, while Phyrexian Tower only nets +1.

  20. #1860

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    I don't claerly undestand why hatred is a solution...FoW to hatred or even path / sword to obliterator or any hatred creature and you loose!

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